BA and 9th Ed

[Captain Caine 24th]

From the Q&A: there's commentary on troops being less important, and CP coming to every army not by detachment, but by points. I'm hopeful that troops don't become irrelevant. It's good for GW revenue to keep people buying. It's good to see more than just super units/deathstar elite units at tournaments. I understand people don't want to have to buy units they don't like, i get that. Just my personal preference that armies have some kind of robust composition to them. Also, it's not like the adeptus mechanicus war convocation or space marine battle company survived from 7th edition into 8th. Army composition rules change. In any case, this is a key question for an army like BA as we rely so heavily on elite squads.

 

Allies cost CP. Allowing allies has varied a lot across editions. Usually after I start a small detachment of allies, they become disallowed or not viable in the new rule set. I suppose my concern is that the codex cycle puts mono-codex armies in a bad position as power creeps up as the edition goes on. I like the idea that I could bring some guard infantry or knight if my BA are in a rough spot. Sometimes, like Tau currently an army reduces down to one viable build. Though Tau is very powerful in that one build--and this isn't always the case, sometimes an army just totally goes to the wayside. We'll see, this might be the right move. We don't know all the rules yet. GW, despite frequent arguments to the contrary, are very competent. 

 

As to stacking benefits, (purely speculation assuming all else is equal, and i'm interpreting what they mean by 'stacking' correctly) BA is in an oddly interesting position with a lot of varied bonuses across a turn (move, charge, hit, strength, wound) as opposed to stacking on a single phase (like +3 to hit or something). So, maybe BA is actually looking good on this one, by dodging nerfs to other codexes (if indirectly).

 

Reserves. I worry about reserves costing CP (but we don't know enough yet, maybe all armies get 40 CP to start... it could be a totally new system). I want a lot of jump packs coming in. I'm ok with the idea of some reserves going back to an outflank type of system where you come in from different board edges. 

 

Drastic Points changes. Be prepared to hit the forums, before passing judgment. Even then, real games are more important than my beloved and incessant theoryhammering. If it's bad we'll work it out. If it's good, ignore the envy of the other more canine or monastic space marine forums. Everybody with a plasma gun might now need a flamer. Power mauls might be the new hotness somehow. Thunderhammers could totally go away. Smash captains could die-off in favor of bike captains, etc. It's the wild west. Viability of unit size might change depending on 'blast' weapons. Remember, GW did a good job with 8th edition points generally, and did a good job with frequent points adjustments in FAQs/Erratas.

 

Flyers rework. I'm happy they recognize the problem. Flyers probably shouldn't be restricted by troops being in a particular spot on the table (though move blocking is fun tactic). I hope the solution is appropriate and my stormravens see the light of day again.

[BluejayJunior]

 

Reserves. I worry about reserves costing CP (but we don't know enough yet, maybe all armies get 40 CP to start... it could be a totally new system). I want a lot of jump packs coming in. I'm ok with the idea of some reserves going back to an outflank type of system where you come in from different board edges. 

The way they talked about it made it seem that everyone would be able to spend CP to put any unit in reserves. So Assault Marines could start off the board like now, but you could also pay some CP to put that Intercessor squad in reserves. At least that is how I took what they were saying. 

[Spagunk]

Here are the things I am most concerned with as a BA player:

Terrain interaction - because you cannot depend on having LOS blocking terrain so having better interaction with non-LoS blocking terrain would be appreciated.

Assault phase - upping assault power is nice but it's still WAY more checks/rolls to get into assault in the first place. I dont know how to fix this as it seems any change/improvement just blows up the power of assault.

Vehicle squadrons - PLEASE bring these back. I don't mind if it is only a few squads (I.E. Normal whirlwinds, Predator) but I think this should come back in some regards.

 

That said, I'm pretty "meh" about 9th. Will be interesting to see what they pulled out.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Spagunk

[Panzer]

 

Vehicle squadrons - PLEASE bring these back. I don't mind if it is only a few squads (I.E. Normal whirlwinds, Predator) but I think this should come back in some regards.

 

 

Those never went away for good. There are several factions who still have vehicle squadrons. GW only took it away from a few select units.

[SamaNagol]

Would be nice not having to take Scouts. That's 330pts of more mobile combat units.

[keeblerartillery]

 

 

Mort, I have a feeling we are going to be in a really good place in 9th. Tau and Eldar have reigned supreme for far too long - so have parking lots of vanilla SM. I think our tactical play style is finally going to be rewarded and reinforced.

 

I agree with the first part of that. Not sure what Eldar was reigning supreme though- I thought they had been in a horrid spot ever since marines 2.0 hit. Tau also seemed to be a mono-build.

 

That being said, what you pointed out will likely hold true- our tactical play style seems to be looking more viable

I guess I’m more thinking back over the years - it’s been a lot of editions since melee was as big a part of the game as ranged.

[Spagunk]

 

 

Vehicle squadrons - PLEASE bring these back. I don't mind if it is only a few squads (I.E. Normal whirlwinds, Predator) but I think this should come back in some regards.

 

 

Those never went away for good. There are several factions who still have vehicle squadrons. GW only took it away from a few select units.

 

I meant in relation to Blood Angels.

[Loishy]

I'm realy not interested by the new starter box. Even if for a Blood Angles the content look great. 

The bickers : 
I'm painting a squad of space marine bicker since 6 months. It's realy hard for me to paint this kind of minis (don't no why), so add three more bike, no thanks.

 

The Hellfury (?) / melta guys :

I don't like the agressor armor. 

 

Judiciar :
Not a big fan. He look like a Stormcast, and I don't understand the hourglass. 

 

 

The ancien : 
I have already 4 anciens, I don't need one more. And the stanchion is a little bit to religious for my army 


Bladeguard Veteran and lieutenant : 
I like them but I don't understand yet how they fit on a space marine chapter. On Warhammer community, they sayd they are 1st compagny veterans, but the miniatues have the 2de compagny mark. Maybe it's link with the strange cross symbol they have. A crusade organisation ? 


Chaplain :

I also like him. This primaris Chaplain have a real crozius arcanum ! 


Chaptain : 
Not a good image, wait and see. 

 

Assaut intercessor :
I like them, but
- I don't whant a plasma pistol on the sergent. 
- They also have that strange cross. Maybe they will not have it in the plastic kit. 
- They are close support squad, but I think they will be troups.  Like the incursors, and I don't like incursors  

 

[beefeb]

with us getting death company intercessors with boosted cc, do you guys reckon there will be a boosted statline/similar for death company assault intercessors?

[Indefragable]

I would like to think that the DC Intercessor data sheet gets updated so we can mix and match shooty+stabby options. Ideally assault bolt rifles and chainswords (with options to upgrade to power weapons/thunder hammers and inferno/plasma pistols and hand flamers)...

 

...but the pessimistic side of me says GW will make two different data sheets: DC Intercessors and DC Assault Intercessors. Or just keep the single DC Intercessors. GW seems to want units to be as one note as possible now.

[Quixus]

Yeah also only traitors seem to get Boltgun/rifle and chainsword.

[Fajita Fan]

Well I decided to hope pistol/sword intercessors are troops and hacked up 10 of my monopose Dark Imperium guys with some BA and Reiver bits. Definitely not my best work but this will leave me with a squad of 10 melee guys and two 5 man Stalker rifle squads as troops. I added a few Death Company shoulders in case that’s an option  I’ve got a power fist and power sword in there since I assume the squad can at least take a fist. 

 

 

My Stalkers are just monopose bolt rifles with scopes and plastic rod pinned to their barrels. 5 are done and I need to add suppressors to 5 more. I hope those will still be troops in the new edition or I just ruined my 20 intercessors today 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[Xenith]

 

 

Mort, I have a feeling we are going to be in a really good place in 9th. Tau and Eldar have reigned supreme for far too long - so have parking lots of vanilla SM. I think our tactical play style is finally going to be rewarded and reinforced.

 

I agree with the first part of that. Not sure what Eldar was reigning supreme though- I thought they had been in a horrid spot ever since marines 2.0 hit. Tau also seemed to be a mono-build.

 

That being said, what you pointed out will likely hold true- our tactical play style seems to be looking more viable

I guess I’m more thinking back over the years - it’s been a lot of editions since melee was as big a part of the game as ranged.

 

 

5th Ed, I think? Melee was always a viable, if inferior option to ranged until they brought in the random charge length.

 

In 40k reliability is king, you dont have to roll for range on your guns, so less can go wrong. The potential to charge things 9" away is largely negated by the absolute fact you may fail a 6" charge. 

 

The other is ranged weapon profiles. Guns just get more, better shots than models get attacks. Angels of death/shock assault/savage echoes has helped with this somewhat, however a 2 shot AP-1 bolt rifle can fire from t1 while an assault unit might not be able to attack until t3.

[Pathstrider]

 

The other is ranged weapon profiles. Guns just get more, better shots than models get attacks. Angels of death/shock assault/savage echoes has helped with this somewhat, however a 2 shot AP-1 bolt rifle can fire from t1 while an assault unit might not be able to attack until t3.

 

 

100% agree -  also, it's easier to concentrate the firepower of multiple ranged units on "that enemy unit that needs to die". Melee gets some advantage in terms of locking units, but it's not equivalent imo.

 

I'm glad GW seems to have acknowledged the issue with all the ways to get extra attacks in CC. It reminds me of the 5th edition codex - there were a lot of new rules (FNP bubbles, Descent of Angels) which looked like bloat/rules creep until you realised you needed those rules just to make Marines that didn't use Rhinos work....

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Also if you shoot at a unit they can’t shoot back until the other player has their shooting phase. but both units get to fight in the same assault phase. Generally though I like to try and stick to the old adage, shoot the choppy and chop the shooty.

[Captain Caine 24th]

Judicar. Very Interesting, (and sorry if I'm behind the ball or speaking out of turn, I didn't see this in the initial post) I just saw the rules leak on the judicar now.  https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/05/26/warhammer-40k-9th-edition-compilation/

 

He seems to aid close combat with the executioner blade (I wonder if he'll be like a lieutenant in points cost). I suppose Astrorath might have competition for executing marines. However, i like sanguinary guard and death co, but FIRSTBORN is now a keyword (if this rules leak is real)... I suspect rules interactions like auras and warlord traits will limit the efficacy of mixing firstborn marines with primaris. Much like PHOBOS is limited (really wish that invictor had it). Death Company intercessors might get a boost here? And who knows what the lore will say. Suddenly we might have a dark angel's style internal manhunt for FIRSTBORN marines. Doubt it, but wouldn't that be wild. I mean it's not like marines ever took up arms against one another? No way that could happen, right Guilliman? Still, his synergy with an impulsor is questionable if he can't attack as he disembarks. My only complaint is that the former BA Reclusarch Chaplain was the coolest rank/title/name I'd ever heard of. Should've brought that title back... But, I love this model. I'm going to buy him. The question is how to fit him in the list.

 

I'm still very excited and worried at the same time. The smallest little hidden rule change (like a unit can only shoot at one target as in 7th Ed) can flip all my speculation on its head instantly.

[Blindhamster]

Judicar. Very Interesting, (and sorry if I'm behind the ball or speaking out of turn, I didn't see this in the initial post) I just saw the rules leak on the judicar now. https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/05/26/warhammer-40k-9th-edition-compilation/

 

He seems to aid close combat with the executioner blade (I wonder if he'll be like a lieutenant in points cost). I suppose Astrorath might have competition for executing marines. However, i like sanguinary guard and death co, but FIRSTBORN is now a keyword (if this rules leak is real)... I suspect rules interactions like auras and warlord traits will limit the efficacy of mixing firstborn marines with primaris. Much like PHOBOS is limited (really wish that invictor had it). Death Company intercessors might get a boost here? And who knows what the lore will say. Suddenly we might have a dark angel's style internal manhunt for FIRSTBORN marines. Doubt it, but wouldn't that be wild. I mean it's not like marines ever took up arms against one another? No way that could happen, right Guilliman? Still, his synergy with an impulsor is questionable if he can't attack as he disembarks. My only complaint is that the former BA Reclusarch Chaplain was the coolest rank/title/name I'd ever heard of. Should've brought that title back... But, I love this model. I'm going to buy him. The question is how to fit him in the list.

 

I'm still very excited and worried at the same time. The smallest little hidden rule change (like a unit can only shoot at one target as in 7th Ed) can flip all my speculation on its head instantly.

It's fake.

[BluejayJunior]

I definitely wouldn't trust Blood of Kittens for any rumors.

[Captain Caine 24th]

Bah, the trolls got me. I've been duped. Well July will be here soon with the full rules.

[Fajita Fan]

I need to look at the Repulsor sprues in a box somewhere but are the turret options on a separate sprue?  I'm just wondering if they could chapter-specific turret sprues for primaris vehicles going forward.  Like a Baal pattern with a dual heavy onslaught gatling cannon, a DA one with plasma cannons, an IF one with a bombard cannon or something...

 

Would something like a Baal Predator style primaris vehicle be desirable?  I think the heavy onslaught cannon is 12 shots S5, would a 24 shot turret be appropriate? 

[redshadow]

I think you’ll have to buy detachments like 2cp for a battalion, 4 cp for a vanguard detachment.

[Father Mapple]

I just want my entire death company force to still be a viable army in 9th, even if I only had 3 CP this edition. They didn't need rerolls. They are supposed to die!

[Indefragable]

Bah, the trolls got me. I've been duped. Well July will be here soon with the full rules.

 

It's confirmed that all this comes out in July?

[dice4thedicegod]

I would like to think that the cap on +1/-1 modifiers has to do with buffs and debuffs and there’s still a certain amount of logic involved.

 

As someone else mentioned somewhere, there needs to be otherwise guys who moved with Heavy Weapons are perfect for shooting at Hard To Hit Flyers since their penalty is capped at -1. I think it would be that moving w/ Heavy weapons is an intrinsic -1 as is Hard To Hit type rules and then you can get a single buff/debuff to make it -3. That’s still pretty tough but for RG or Eldar flyers, I think that’s within the realm of ok since that’s their shtick. The -6 To Hit was what was the problem.

 

Everyone apparently hits on 6’s all the time now so that is an additional counterpoint to the ridiculous stacking stuff as well.

Given that the recently leaked Daemon strats in engine war showed fiends given a minus 2 to leadership, I think it’s safe to say that the +\- 1 cap is only for limited purposes (Ie to hit)

[redshadow]

Infiltrators might be really good with the new way reserves work