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Medjugorje

By Medjugorje
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Tokugawa Veteran

Tokugawa

Posted
Posted
9th blast weapons just straightly murder 11+ models infantry units(if it don't called Lucius robemen). It is boring that big crusader squad fans can't have test against ork 18 buggies now(faq restricted max 3 buggies each type).
Tiger9gamer Venerable Brother

Tiger9gamer

Posted
Posted

yea, the dude pulled off a few combos with his watch master and doctrine stuff too. It was not a good ideas putting them in the open like that but considering it wasn't a good game over all It just made it worse (the guy wouldn't stop arguing and talking over me, even as I got a rules channel involved on the discord I was a part of)

the crusader squad felt so exposed without a transport too. and considering my thread about mechanized firstborn, footslogging primaris is a big change from my rhino rush days. I did plan on putting psalm of protection on them but the opponent went first and hit them before that. So, I was wondering if it is worth taking an apothecary for that squad in place of a rhino

CrystalSeer Veteran

CrystalSeer

Posted
Posted

20 dudes only works if supported. One 20 man block means all anti MEQ stuff has a convenient target. 45-60 bodies with mini-transhuman and 5++ with optional defensive buffs has potential to really disrupt.

 

That said, anything in the open will likely die. Guns work like that.

 

Mech sounds fun, but prices are really high. Repulsor is 300+ points, and impulsor cap at 6 infantry. It seems like you're really limiting yourself to get a ride.

Tokugawa Veteran

Tokugawa

Posted
Posted
Impulsors are never designed as "to transport most of your main force". In all the successful 9th tournaments record of other chapters, when they use an impulsor, it carry a small unit(e.g. 3 or 4 BGV), move forward to an objective, then hold it until death.
Tiger9gamer Venerable Brother

Tiger9gamer

Posted
Posted (edited)

20 dudes only works if supported. One 20 man block means all anti MEQ stuff has a convenient target. 45-60 bodies with mini-transhuman and 5++ with optional defensive buffs has potential to really disrupt.

 

That said, anything in the open will likely die. Guns work like that.

 

Mech sounds fun, but prices are really high. Repulsor is 300+ points, and impulsor cap at 6 infantry. It seems like you're really limiting yourself to get a ride.

I mean when you put it like that I feel dumb xD

 

and it was only 10 dudes, which I guess is part of the problem. it was only 1k points, so I expected them to survive past one turn.

 

I made a vew casual lists with all impulsors containing assault intercessors and, while fun, my wallet cries in agony for me even considering it... I am sticking with firstborn mechanized for the time being

Edited by Tiger9gamer
Tokugawa Veteran

Tokugawa

Posted
Posted

Some very early events record of new codex popped on internet; this brother topped a 60men event:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [100 PL, 1,999pts, 9CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Chapter Selection: Black Templars

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Revered Repositories [-1CP]

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 2. Psalm of the Remorseless Persecution, Artificer Crozius, 3x Cenobyte Servitors, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Plasma pistol

 

High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts]: Attendant Thrall's Fists, Feroicity, Frag & Krak grenades, Sword of the High Marshals

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, 115pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Iron Resolve, Litany of Hate, Tannhauser's Bones, Twin Bolt rifle, Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 183pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades (bp and chainsword)

. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword, Sword of Judgement

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 188pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades (bp and chainsword)

. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Power sword, Pyre Pistol

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 183pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades (bp and chainsword)

. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword

 

+ Elites +

 

Judiciar [5 PL, 85pts]: Absolver Bolt pistol, Executioner Relic Blade, Frag & Krak grenades, The Aurillian Shroud

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Servitors [2 PL, 30pts]: 4x Servitor, 4x Servo-arm

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 210pts, -1CP]: Icon of Heinmann, Jump Pack

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Champion of the Feast, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 150pts]: Heavy melta rifle

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol

. Eradicator Sgt: Bolt pistol

 

++ Total: [100 PL, 9CP, 1,999pts] ++

 

 

some wargear options are weird, I think that is for WYSIWYG reason.

Brother Christopher Venerable Brother

Brother Christopher

Posted
Posted

Could someone more attuned to the nuances of the game explain to me why Primaris Initiates/Neophytes are 19/16 points and Firstborn Initiates/Neophytes are 18/13 points? The extra attack on the Primaris body is probably worth more than 1 point in the Power Armoured variant; in what scenarios would you find fielding Firstborn Crusader Squads not a handicap?

Tokugawa Veteran

Tokugawa

Posted
Posted

Could someone more attuned to the nuances of the game explain to me why Primaris Initiates/Neophytes are 19/16 points and Firstborn Initiates/Neophytes are 18/13 points? The extra attack on the Primaris body is probably worth more than 1 point in the Power Armoured variant; in what scenarios would you find fielding Firstborn Crusader Squads not a handicap?

Minimum classic crusader unit is 90pts. Minimum primaris crusader unit is 183pts. Many times you just want a cheap troop slot filler, or to pay batallion tax.
Brother Kraskor Veteran

Brother Kraskor

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wonder how much viability there would be in a gravis-heavy/all-gravis army using 5++ vow. An all-T5, 3W army with 3+/5++ should be hard to shift?

 

Edit: Eg. 1500pts list (only non-gravis is the Lieutenant)

 

Gravis Marshal (115) - Master-crafted Boltstorm Gauntlet, (Heir of Sigismund) Paragon of Fury & Master of Arms 

Primaris Lieutenant (80) - Auto-Plasma, Teeth of Terra, (Hero of the Chapter) Imperium's Sword

 

5 Heavy Intercessors (150) - Executor Rifles, Executor Heavy Bolter, Witchseeker Bolts

5 Heavy Intercessors (150) - Hellstorm Rifles, Hellstorm Heavy Bolter

5 Heavy Intercessors (150) - Hellstorm Rifles, Hellstorm Heavy Bolter

 

5 Inceptors (300) - Plasma

5 Inceptors (300) - Plasma

 

5 Eradicators (255) - Heavy Melta Rifles, Multi-Melta

 

1500pts, 8CP

Edited by Brother Kraskor
SirJyo Battle-Brother

SirJyo

Posted
Posted

Could someone more attuned to the nuances of the game explain to me why Primaris Initiates/Neophytes are 19/16 points and Firstborn Initiates/Neophytes are 18/13 points? The extra attack on the Primaris body is probably worth more than 1 point in the Power Armoured variant; in what scenarios would you find fielding Firstborn Crusader Squads not a handicap?

Not sure it makes a huge difference, but firstborn neophytes give the squad smokescreen.

SirJyo Battle-Brother

SirJyo

Posted
Posted

The extra attack on the Primaris body is probably worth more than 1 point in the Power Armoured variant; in what scenarios would you find fielding Firstborn Crusader Squads not a handicap?

Not sure it makes a huge difference, but firstborn neophytes give the squad smokescreen. A repeatable -1 to hit can potentially make a difference, but mostly just power creep.

9x19 Parabellum Venerable Brother

9x19 Parabellum

Posted
Posted

Wonder how much viability there would be in a gravis-heavy/all-gravis army using 5++ vow. An all-T5, 3W army with 3+/5++ should be hard to shift?

 

Edit: Eg. 1500pts list (only non-gravis is the Lieutenant)

 

Gravis Marshal (115) - Master-crafted Boltstorm Gauntlet, (Heir of Sigismund) Paragon of Fury & Master of Arms 

Primaris Lieutenant (80) - Auto-Plasma, Teeth of Terra, (Hero of the Chapter) Imperium's Sword

 

5 Heavy Intercessors (150) - Executor Rifles, Executor Heavy Bolter, Witchseeker Bolts

5 Heavy Intercessors (150) - Hellstorm Rifles, Hellstorm Heavy Bolter

5 Heavy Intercessors (150) - Hellstorm Rifles, Hellstorm Heavy Bolter

 

5 Inceptors (300) - Plasma

5 Inceptors (300) - Plasma

 

5 Eradicators (255) - Heavy Melta Rifles, Multi-Melta

 

1500pts, 8CP

 

You've got no melee. As soon as you get touched in melee, you're tarpitted and then GG.

 

Might consider swapping out one squad of Inceptors for Aggressors.

 

Also, this might work better as a Combat Patrol detachment.   Heavy Intercessors generally just aren't getting much bang for their buck, so having to dump 450 pts in 3 squads is a little painful.  So only having to do 1 or 2 units instead of 3 would free up room for more Aggressors/inceptors/eradicators.

tvih Venerable Brother

tvih

Posted
Posted

 

Could someone more attuned to the nuances of the game explain to me why Primaris Initiates/Neophytes are 19/16 points and Firstborn Initiates/Neophytes are 18/13 points? The extra attack on the Primaris body is probably worth more than 1 point in the Power Armoured variant; in what scenarios would you find fielding Firstborn Crusader Squads not a handicap?

Minimum classic crusader unit is 90pts. Minimum primaris crusader unit is 183pts. Many times you just want a cheap troop slot filler, or to pay batallion tax.

 

Even then you could just have Intercessors or Assault Intercessors instead of firstborn. A much better pick than classic crusaders with no upgrades for only 5-10 points more. Which once again makes me sad, given my pile of BT firstborn.

Marshal Laeroth Veteran

Marshal Laeroth

Posted
Posted

Some very early events record of new codex popped on internet; this brother topped a 60men event:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [100 PL, 1,999pts, 9CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Chapter Selection: Black Templars

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Revered Repositories [-1CP]

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 2. Psalm of the Remorseless Persecution, Artificer Crozius, 3x Cenobyte Servitors, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Plasma pistol

 

High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts]: Attendant Thrall's Fists, Feroicity, Frag & Krak grenades, Sword of the High Marshals

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, 115pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Iron Resolve, Litany of Hate, Tannhauser's Bones, Twin Bolt rifle, Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 183pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades (bp and chainsword)

. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword, Sword of Judgement

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 188pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades (bp and chainsword)

. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Power sword, Pyre Pistol

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 183pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades (bp and chainsword)

. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword

 

+ Elites +

 

Judiciar [5 PL, 85pts]: Absolver Bolt pistol, Executioner Relic Blade, Frag & Krak grenades, The Aurillian Shroud

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Servitors [2 PL, 30pts]: 4x Servitor, 4x Servo-arm

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 210pts, -1CP]: Icon of Heinmann, Jump Pack

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Champion of the Feast, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 150pts]: Heavy melta rifle

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol

. Eradicator Sgt: Bolt pistol

 

++ Total: [100 PL, 9CP, 1,999pts] ++

 

 

some wargear options are weird, I think that is for WYSIWYG reason.

Yep. So much for the BT not being a tournament winning supplement. Kevin beat DG, Drukhari, Admech, Levi Nids, and Custodes.

Schlitzaf Veteran

Schlitzaf

Posted
Posted

 

The extra attack on the Primaris body is probably worth more than 1 point in the Power Armoured variant; in what scenarios would you find fielding Firstborn Crusader Squads not a handicap?

Not sure it makes a huge difference, but firstborn neophytes give the squad smokescreen. A repeatable -1 to hit can potentially make a difference, but mostly just power creep.

Tl;dr is that only time firstborn inits are viable if you ger a Neo for smokescreen and pop while atleast 3 inits in the squad. If anyone curious I’ve done the math fkr this

BayOkuz Battle-Brother

BayOkuz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Then I will share you my list, I won 3 matches out of 4. Lost only to drukhari. Won against Necrons (overwhelmingly) Blood Angels and Death Guard.



++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [98 PL, 6CP, 1,978pts] ++


+ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Chapter Selection: Black TemplarsDetachment Command CostGametype: MatchedUnit Filter: Hide Imperial Agents, Hide Legends UnitsUse Beta Rules+ Stratagems +Revered Repositories [-1CP]Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics+ HQ +Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 4. Fires of Devotion, Artificer Crozius, 3x Cenobyte Servitors, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Plasma pistolHigh Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts]: Attendant Thrall's Fists, Feroicity, Frag & Krak grenades, Sword of the High MarshalsPrimaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Master of Arms, Rites of War, Stratagem: Heir of Sigismund, Tannhauser's Bones, Twin Bolt rifle, Warlord+ Troops +Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt PistolAssault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt PistolPrimaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 183pts]: Bolt Carbine. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades,   5x Heavy Bolt Pistol. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword+ Elites +Bladeguard Veteran Squad [11 PL, -1CP, 190pts]: Icon of Heinmann. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword,   4x Storm Shield. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Champion of the Feast, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol,   Master-crafted power sword, Storm Shield, Sword of JudgementPrimaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Absolver Bolt pistol, Chapter Command:  Chief Apothecary, Frag & Krak grenades, Reductor Pistol, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Crusader's HelmRedemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor FistRelic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverinTerminator Assault Squad [9 PL, 215pts]. Assault Terminator Sergeant. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer. 4x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammerVanguard Veteran Squad [15 PL, 310pts]: Bones of Mordred, Jump Pack. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield++ Total: [98 PL, 6CP, 1,978pts] ++Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) 



			
				


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Then I will share you my list, I won 3 matches out of 4. Lost only to drukhari. Won against Necrons (overwhelmingly) Blood Angels and Death Guard.




++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [98 PL, 6CP, 1,978pts] ++


+ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Chapter Selection: Black TemplarsDetachment Command CostGametype: MatchedUnit Filter: Hide Imperial Agents, Hide Legends UnitsUse Beta Rules+ Stratagems +Revered Repositories [-1CP]Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics+ HQ +Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 4. Fires of Devotion, Artificer Crozius, 3x Cenobyte Servitors, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Plasma pistolHigh Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts]: Attendant Thrall's Fists, Feroicity, Frag & Krak grenades, Sword of the High MarshalsPrimaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Master of Arms, Rites of War, Stratagem: Heir of Sigismund, Tannhauser's Bones, Twin Bolt rifle, Warlord+ Troops +Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt PistolAssault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt PistolPrimaris Crusader Squad [10 PL, 183pts]: Bolt Carbine. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades,   5x Heavy Bolt Pistol. 4x Primaris Neophytes: 4x Frag & Krak grenades. Primaris Sword Brother: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword+ Elites +Bladeguard Veteran Squad [11 PL, -1CP, 190pts]: Icon of Heinmann. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword,   4x Storm Shield. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Champion of the Feast, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol,   Master-crafted power sword, Storm Shield, Sword of JudgementPrimaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Absolver Bolt pistol, Chapter Command:  Chief Apothecary, Frag & Krak grenades, Reductor Pistol, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Crusader's HelmRedemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor FistRelic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverinTerminator Assault Squad [9 PL, 215pts]. Assault Terminator Sergeant. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer. 4x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammerVanguard Veteran Squad [15 PL, 310pts]: Bones of Mordred, Jump Pack. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield++ Total: [98 PL, 6CP, 1,978pts] ++Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) 




I like it! even has the (apparantly) maligned bladeguard vet squad! Though does it have an impulsor?


 


Also, I am finding it hard to wrap my head around the lack of anti-tank. besides melee, is it only on the dreads? (Also... may I suggest the Fist of belthas on the VVet sergeant? I love that item and adds some good punch to the squad)



			
				


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Art of War ranked BT as A Tier !


 


 https://youtu.be/xrkMF9BHVAs




 


I think it's important to note that meta rankings aren't static. The drop to Admech and drukhari, rise of nids, and grey knights being left alone are factors in determining if BT are "good" in the meta. BT have a strong defense to mortal wounds, can tech into more durability to offset quality weapons, and can control the board pretty fast with grimaldus advance buff, deepstrike out of Tannhauser, impulsors and van vets. But the tech being brought isn't really tooled to fight marine infantry mass right now, which is why BT are in a good spot.


 




 


I like it! even has the (apparantly) maligned bladeguard vet squad! Though does it have an impulsor?




 


 I malign Bladeguard very contextually. This list using them as the center brick unit, with terminators and vanguard as the disruption elements. It also isn't packaging a ton of assassination points with them and tossing them up the board with partial buff coverage lol. 



			
		


		
			

				
					
						

	
	
		

			
				
				

					
						

	
	

					
				

			
			
			
		

	


					
				
				
			

		

		
	


	

	






	



					
					
					
				

					

					
					





					
					
					
				

					

					
					






	

	

	

		

			

				


	
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while not going that far, I can see myself possibly bringing a full squad of aggressors with bolters. longer range, can run and gun with a stratagem, combos well with a chapter master giving them re-rolls while still being something you don't want punching you. Could easily do the flamer aggressors too, though for some reason I like the guns more as an aesthetic. Give them an apothecary behind them and they could be golden!

Still, there is nothing like a vanguard vet sergeant rocking up with the fist of belthas...

 


			
		


		

		
			

		
	


	

	






	



					
					
					
				

					

					
					






	

	

	

		

			

				


	
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I don’t see VV as being auto include anymore - actually those points are prolly better served elsewhere.


 


I wouldn't call them auto-include, but they are a very strong tech choice. Lightning claws for horde/chip damage, or thunderhammers/fists for spike damage. They can react fast on the table, or reliably charge out of DS from the bike chaplain. Roach's list probably uses them as more of a spike damage out of DS, since people usually like the apothecary to revive tanking champions if they use them in that way.



			
		


		

		
	


	

	






	



					
					
					
				

					

					
					






	

	

	

		

			

				


	
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BT take 1st at a GT :) 


 


List using... CRUSADERS!


 


https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-liminal-state/


 


A really cool list, utilizing standard space marine good units (dreads, vanguard) with the added pressure that an unkillable Biker Chaplain and speedy squads of Crusaders bring.


 


Loads of cool tricks in the breakdown too.



			
		


		
			

				
					
						

	
	
		

			
				
				

					
						

	
	

					
				

			
			
			
		

	


					
				
				
			

		

		
			

		
	


	

	






	



					
					
					
				

					

					
					





					
					
					
				
			
			



		

	


	
		

			


	
	

		

	
	
	
	
	
		
	

			
				
					


	


	
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