the BIG 9th edition room

[Tokugawa]

Judicar is a good "container" for extra WLT/Relics, if you want to invest any. Helbrecht/Grimaldus/Biker chaplain/Apothecary are the most common characters in BT list, and the wlt/relic options on this 4 guys are locked or almost locked. If you want any flexible tools, it could go to judicar.

[Tiger9gamer]

Judicar is a good "container" for extra WLT/Relics, if you want to invest any. Helbrecht/Grimaldus/Biker chaplain/Apothecary are the most common characters in BT list, and the wlt/relic options on this 4 guys are locked or almost locked. If you want any flexible tools, it could go to judicar.

True. I was playing around with the idea of giving him a master crafted weapon. Basically allows his blade to become another sword of judgement, so you could feasibly run around with three sword wielding knights if you have helbrech and the champion of the feast w/ the sword of judgement in a bladeguard squad

[Urkh]

While we got one win in that article, I noticed other armies than admech and dark eldar doing well. Smattering of orks (not surprising?) Grey knights, and a tyranid list even! Hopefully these balance dataslates can keep a healthy hobby and give us more kinds of enemies to kill. List building for different things should be getting really interesting the more variety there is. Let's ZEAL them all! Edited November 18, 2021 by Marshal Mattias

[Tiger9gamer]

While we got one win in that article, I noticed other armies than admech and dark eldar doing well. Smattering of orks (not surprising?) Grey knights, and a tyranid list even! Hopefully these balance dataslates can keep a healthy hobby and give us more kinds of enemies to kill. List building for different things should be getting really interesting the more variety there is. Let's ZEAL them all!

that is fair! I do hope my admech is still fun to play against and with, but I will do that in the future. For now... I CRUSADE!

 

So what do people think of a full squad of 6 aggressors backed up by a storm of fire chapter master? Seems like it can put down a lot of dakka and hold it's own in combat.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Marshal Mattias

[Brother Kraskor]

 

Judicar is a good "container" for extra WLT/Relics, if you want to invest any. Helbrecht/Grimaldus/Biker chaplain/Apothecary are the most common characters in BT list, and the wlt/relic options on this 4 guys are locked or almost locked. If you want any flexible tools, it could go to judicar.

True. I was playing around with the idea of giving him a master crafted weapon. Basically allows his blade to become another sword of judgement, so you could feasibly run around with three sword wielding knights if you have helbrech and the champion of the feast w/ the sword of judgement in a bladeguard squad

 

 

I was thinking about mastercrafting it too! In fact it's even better than Sword of Judgement because it can cause mortals on 6 to wound. 

[Marshal Loss]

BT take 1st at a GT

 

List using... CRUSADERS!

 

HA. So much for the "melee is the worst way to build crusaders" crowd.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Now we just need a death metal song entitled CRUSADER.

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, so I am probably going to magnetize a vanguard veteran squad in order to either allow them to deploy in an LRC in a casual game, or jump packs for more competitive games. Only problem is, when they are using jump packs I have no way to deploy an apothecary with them. What is a good solution for this? Do they really need it if they have a chapter master and chaplain support?

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright another question. How many CP's are you guys starting the game with? most of the lists I create are often times  6 or 7 CPs down by the time I get all my characters and units the way I want them

(Usually it's Heir of sigismund, x2 Heroes of the chapters, x2 extra relics and a champion of the feast)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

7 to start is the bare min for me.

[Tokugawa]

Another event win from new BT(Renegade open, 60+ players):

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [102 PL, 7CP, 1,996pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Chapter Selection: Black Templars

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Revered Repositories [-1CP]

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts]: Attendant Thrall's Fists, Feroicity, Frag & Krak grenades, Sword of the High Marshals

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 4. Fires of Devotion, Absolver Bolt pistol, Ancient Breviary, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Twin Bolt rifle

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 3. Exhortation of Rage, Absolver Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Tannhauser's Bones, Twin Bolt rifle

 

+ Troops +

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [6 PL, 115pts]: Fist of Balthus

. . 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. . Assault Intercessor Sgt: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power fist

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 90pts]

. . 4x Initiate: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. . Sword Brother: Astartes Chainsword, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 90pts]

. . 4x Initiate: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. . Sword Brother: Astartes Chainsword, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades

 

+ Elites +

 

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [11 PL, 225pts]: Icon of Heinmann

. . 5x Bladeguard Veteran: 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 5x Master-crafted power sword, 5x Storm Shield

. . Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted power sword, Storm Shield, Sword of Judgement

 

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, 115pts]: Absolver Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Frag & Krak grenades, Reductor Pistol, Selfless Healer, The Crusader's Helm, Warlord

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Redemptor Fist

 

Terminator Assault Squad [19 PL, -1CP, 316pts]: The Crux Obsidian

. . Assault Terminator Sergeant: Champion of the Feast

. . . . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. . 6x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 6x Storm shield, 6x Thunder hammer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Attack Bike Squad [3 PL, 75pts]: Holy Orb

. . Attack Bike: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta, Twin boltgun

[Tiger9gamer]

Well, redemptors may be nerfed, but that looks like a fun list!

 

also, despite firstborn basically being just filler troop choices, I am happy to see them running around. Also, hey, no vanguard vets!

Edited November 22, 2021 by Tiger9gamer

[Tokugawa]

Well, redemptors may be nerfed, but that looks like a fun list!

 

also, despite firstborn basically being just filler troop choices, I am happy to see them running around. Also, hey, no vanguard vets!

Terminators are also "firstborn", though they have models closer to modern size and aesthetics.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

Well, redemptors may be nerfed, but that looks like a fun list!

 

also, despite firstborn basically being just filler troop choices, I am happy to see them running around. Also, hey, no vanguard vets!

Terminators are also "firstborn", though they have models closer to modern size and aesthetics.

 

I didn’t even see them on first pass. Nice!

[Khornestar]

What about redemptors makes them likely to be nerfed?

[Tiger9gamer]

What about redemptors makes them likely to be nerfed?

I get jumpy whenever I see multiples of anything in a tournament list

[Charlo]

What about redemptors makes them likely to be nerfed?

 

They're utterly ubiquitous across the Marine factions and outside of forgeworld contemptors, kind of put every other vehicle to shame for durability, firepower and flexibility at that cost.

[SkimaskMohawk]

What about redemptors makes them likely to be nerfed?

 

They're one of the strongest parts of the marine book, but only really show up shooting/mixed winning builds like Deathwatch and Iron Hands. Black Templars winning with them just kind of means that they're using a mixed shooting and melee list that shares some aspects of the Iron Hands. 

 

The thing is, some people still have the mentality that marines are the king of the meta and that units showing up in winning lists indicates an incoming nerf. Marines haven't really been higher than A- since they got their 9th book, and that's with the more successful Iron Hands and Deathwatch tossed in there. You don't just nerf units that are simply good if the faction isn't performing in a standout manner, especially if there's no janky/unfun interaction.

 

@tiger9gamer redundancy is a staple of tournament play. There's a lot of reasons why you might want to have multiples of a good unit; they bring good weapons to the board, forces your opponent to kill far more of unit type than 1, makes their target priority harder, makes you get more board control, and everything else that's related to those aspects.

 

@charlo that not really true in terms of ubiquity. You look at 40k stats and you can see that while IH and DW use them a lot (as I noted), the BA and SW lists that have placed in the last few of months just don't. The relic contemptors are honestly more pervasive.   

Edited November 22, 2021 by SkimaskMohawk

[Medjugorje]

Dreads are the only thing which holds the faction competitive. Rest of the codex is trash. Thats the reality.

 

But I expect Dreads to increase at least 10 points but also a massive decrease vor all other vehicles. If it would be just about Predators and firstborn units I would expect nothing. But even after the last point decreases all Marine vehicles are still trash. So I expect massive point drops ( and sadly still not enough becuase the units are trash)

[Marshal Reinhard]

You're such a ray of sunshine

[Medjugorje]

From a BT perspective its not a problem because we and Iron Hands are the Marines who have the strongest rules. For us it could be enough. But all in all I expect no vehicle in a competitive Ultramarines, Imperial Fists or any other Marine list.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Dreads are the only thing which holds the faction competitive. Rest of the codex is trash. Thats the reality.

 

But I expect Dreads to increase at least 10 points but also a massive decrease vor all other vehicles. If it would be just about Predators and firstborn units I would expect nothing. But even after the last point decreases all Marine vehicles are still trash. So I expect massive point drops ( and sadly still not enough becuase the units are trash)

 

The marine faction has a lot of other stuff in it. Wolves, BA and DA barely use dreads. Arguably Vanvets and analogues are the most competitive unit. 

 

You're such a ray of sunshine

 

And often hilariously wrong in their assertions. 

[Charlo]

Maybe let's not take someone being direct and to the point with their words as them being antagonistic.

 

It brings the tone down on the forum

[Medjugorje]

I have no problems with critics. Therefore is this discussion.

 

But honestly, without Vanvets, access to lighting claws and Rites of war the Book codex: sm is not good. Wolves are good because many fight last mechanics and the few things in C:SM. Dark Angels are good because their own special rules and Blood Angels because of their many access to fast moving jump pack units. 

Ultramarines are good because of their reroll relic and redeployment... 

 

Of course there are units which are not trash... but honestly just a handful of good units and a few which makes them competitive. 

[Tokugawa]

If xxx(unit name) in BT is very powerful, but in some other chapters xxx is mediocre or weak, should xxx be nerfed? or buffed? or needn't be touched?