Heavy Intercessors

[War Angel]

How’s their damage compared to aggressors? Never really felt aggressors fit where I wanted them. Edited September 13, 2020 by War Angel

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

Honestly these guys aren't game breaking in the slightest. I intend to run them because the models looks great, however.

I take it you intend to run 30 of them? Out of pure love of the models, naturally.

 

This is ridiculous hyperbole.  There is no meta atm, we have no codicies, no points values, and incomplete datasheets.  How can you draw any conclusions about heavy intercessors in this situation?  

[jaxom]

How’s their damage compared to aggressors? Never really felt aggressors fit where I wanted them.

 

6 models in each unit, Bolter Discipline in effect, ignoring BS because they're equal, against T4 3+:

• Aggressors get 3 more wounds through compared to Hellstorm BR; plus 7 if double-tapping. [7.2:4]
• Aggressors get 3 more wounds through compared to Heavy BR; plus 7 if double-tapping, plus 2 if Heavy BR isn't rapid firing. [7.2:4]
• Aggressors get about 3 more wounds through compared to Executor BR, but if looking at 2W targets, they get 1 more casualty; plus 7 and 3 in those situations, respectively, if double-tapping. [7.2:2.66 i.e. 3.6:2.66 against 2W]

Simply put, Aggressors throw  more shots down range and will significantly out damage Heavy Intercessors when double-tapping. Of course, this ignores the major difference: range. The Heavy Intercessors will out range Aggressors by either 12", 18", or 24".

[Uberlord Gendo]

I'm surprised people aren't talking much about these guys in Salamanders lists. I'm also thinking that in terms of Fists, it may come down to a question of bolter shots vs durability and mobility, since they won't be nearly as durable for Fists as they are for Salamanders and Iron Hands. I think Raven Guard will have better things to infiltrate, but I kind of want to see some hellstorm lads in a White Scars setting.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They’ll be good in any list. They will be great for holding objectives but they don’t seem strong in melee. Anybody that’s got some angst tell me why Talos are okay.

[Volt]

They’ll be good in any list. They will be great for holding objectives but they don’t seem strong in melee. Anybody that’s got some angst tell me why Talos are okay.

I don't get why people are saying that Heavy Intercessors are bad in melee when they're no different from regular Intercessors save sarge weapons. In terms of sheer firepower they outshoot normal intercessors, they're being wounded on fives in melee with most enemies, and they just have objectively superior auto bolters. The real question is the points cost, but unless it's ungodly rather I don't see what is the point of Intercessors anymore. If you want anti tank shooting for troops you bring tacticals. If you want durability and infantry mulching, you bring heavy intercessors with assault 3 s5 bolters. If you want screening against deep strikes, you bring Infiltrators. AI and I are just "there" really.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I'm surprised people aren't talking much about these guys in Salamanders lists. I'm also thinking that in terms of Fists, it may come down to a question of bolter shots vs durability and mobility, since they won't be nearly as durable for Fists as they are for Salamanders and Iron Hands. I think Raven Guard will have better things to infiltrate, but I kind of want to see some hellstorm lads in a White Scars setting.

WS lad here...  these guys don't excite me at all.  They are slow, cannot go into Impulsors, and don't appear to have access to power weapons.  Pass.

 

Putting on my Raven Guard lad hat, these guys look great for backfield objective holding.  I would consider taking them if the points are right.  

[MegaVolt87]

So glad I waited, these will do exactly what I need in the back line for a CF list I have in mind. 0ne box of ten (I think they will be a box of 10?)  will be a good buy for me. 

[eternal_warrior12]

I just think they look neat.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, my Gravis Company are massive fans of these guys. Very happy they've fixed the appearance from the Aggressors, they look much better now.

[WrathOfTheLion]

These look much better than the aggressors.

 

The hoods can easily be cut back, but the belly plates do not look good on the previous gravis.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

I think I'll take a squad of them as ranged support for my otherwise Assault-focused list. I'm not sure if I should go for the standard or Executor HBR's though.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

I don't think there's room for more than one squad of heavies in a list outside maybe Fists (and any kind of creative-over-effective list ofc). They just don't add much output over regular Intercessors (one point of strength and 6" range) outside the heavy bolter, the options in guns are equivalent to the bolt rifle options. They were previewed at 7 power which means the average points between all options lie at about 140. The upmark is mostly the extra wound and toughness. Is that worth it? Absolutely for an objective holder. They would even be wonderful to contest objectives, if they weren't so slow. That can only be remedied by a Repulsor, which is expensive, and can still only transport 5 models. Even when camping the backfield, as they are chunky with low output, if any obsec unit with 10+ models comes close it might even get stolen right under your nose (though the large bases might be able to prevent that, we'll have to see).

 

TL:DR: Sky isn't falling, chunky dudes are slow and don't deal much damage for the cost.

[Uberlord Gendo]

WS lad here... these guys don't excite me at all. They are slow, cannot go into Impulsors, and don't appear to have access to power weapons. Pass.

 

Putting on my Raven Guard lad hat, these guys look great for backfield objective holding. I would consider taking them if the points are right.

Oh, I don't think it'd be good, but it would be hilarious to see someone assault move them every turn as some sort of perverse Keshig. Sort of a "well, they gave me this suit and told me it would be slow and durable, but screw that, gotta go fast."

[Karhedron]

I don't get why people are saying that Heavy Intercessors are bad in melee when they're no different from regular Intercessors save sarge weapons. In terms of sheer firepower they outshoot normal intercessors, they're being wounded on fives in melee with most enemies, and they just have objectively superior auto bolters. The real question is the points cost, but unless it's ungodly rather I don't see what is the point of Intercessors anymore. If you want anti tank shooting for troops you bring tacticals. If you want durability and infantry mulching, you bring heavy intercessors with assault 3 s5 bolters. If you want screening against deep strikes, you bring Infiltrators. AI and I are just "there" really.

They are different from regular Intercessors in that the wounds they have are concentrated in fewer bodies meaning fewer attacks. 5 Heavy Intercessors get 10 attacks or 15 in the 1st round of combat. For the same price you can get 7 Intercessors who get 14 attacks or 21 in the first round of combat plus the option for a melee weapon on the Serg. Also anything that does a flat 3 or more damage (Thunder Hammers etc) will absolutely wreck them.

 

I ma actually quite impressed with how they have done Heavy Intercessors. They trade some offensive power for more durability meaning that both they and regular Intercessors have valid roles. Some Chapters may be able to leverage that durability better than others or pull clever tricks but at first impressions, it looks like they have done a good job of balancing them.

[Blindhamster]

Yeah, generally I think Interecessors will be better for a more aggressive playstyle, more models is more attacks and slower attrition of its offensive output, they can also ride in impulsors which is good for delivery, the grenade launcher upgrade gives them a bit of extra "oomph" in the shooting phase and the melee weapon options mean they're generally more dangerous in a fight. Heavy Intercessors for sure feel like they should be camping on backfield objectives and utilising their longer range to contribute whilst also being relatively confident they can survive a charge from all but the most dangerous enemies.

[Captain Idaho]

The Executor Bolters and Heavy Bolter does seem like the stand out option to me. Like a mini-Devastator squad in effect.

 

Though if the other options are sub 30pts, maybe they will be better.

 

I've got a feeling we'll see these boys go for 25pts a model. Look how cheap Aggressors are...

[Karhedron]

I am wondering about weapon options and cost. In spite of the extra firepower of the Stalker Bolt Rifle, most players seem to favour the mobility and horde clearing power of the Auto Bolt Rifle on regular Intercessors. I am wondering if Heavy Intercessors will similarly gravitate towards the Assault variant as well. Having said that, with 2W Marines flooding the meta, 2D weapons may see a resurgence overall.

 

I would be surprised to see HIs as cheap as 25ppm, I am expecting closer to 28ppm. Then again, it would not be the first time GW has priced something to shift....

Edited September 14, 2020 by Karhedron

[Mandragola]

Some thoughts, while we wait for points values.

 

I don't think it makes sense to transport these guys in a Repulsor. Twice as many normal intercessors would be way better. Or else aggressors, eradicators, bladeguard, characters and so on - basically almost any other unit, before these guys.

 

40mm bases mean that a unit of 5 of these will have quite a large footprint, and a unit of 10 will be enormous. There might be terrain that you couldn't fit them all into, for example.

 

The inability to bring a thunder hammer on the sergeant is huge. Normal intercessors are a real threat to stuff like enemy dreadnoughts and these guys really are not. A squad of these will cost at least as much as a squad of normal intercessors with a thunder hammer.

 

They might well win shoot-outs with other people's troops, including intercessors, point for point. Their firepower is probably a bit lower compared to normal intercessors (per point, not per model) but they are far more durable. Rooting these guys out of cover could be especially difficult I think.

 

I don't think these guys benefit all that much from FNP. 2-wound marines gain a lot because it will quite often save them from a 2D hit. It's unlikely to save these guys from 2x2D though - they'd have to roll 2 6s out of 4 dice. 

 

I don't see a particularly strong synergy between these guys and any of the chapter tactics. That's actually fine in a troop unit, which should be useful for everyone. Good options could include Fists for bolter spam and White Scars, to have the guys with assault guns running about the place relatively quickly. Deathwatch armed with assault bolters could be pretty nasty too - in fact I think they might be the most powerful option.

 

Spamming normal intercessors has been a pretty viable tactic. I wonder if that will be true of these guys too. The obvious thing to do with these guys is to have five of them with the heavy guns, sat on a home objective. But I wonder what would happen if you took 50 and covered the board in them. It would fight by attrition, and might do pretty well I think.

[Marshal Loss]

Great article by Goonhammer: will be of interest.

[emperorpants]

The executor bolt rifle will be great at dealing with other marines. These guys are looking good. Not broken by any means though. There are far more powerful and cheesy units than these across many armies. These are going to be good home objective campers that can reach out and smack things across most of the board. I like them a lot. These guys existing gives another thing for hellblasters with heavy plasma to shoot as well. ;)

[Spleenex]

Great article by Goonhammer: will be of interest.

 

Really interesting analysis. Looks like the Executor rifles will pretty much always be the way to go with these guys against MEQ+ targets -- they're notably killier than the other options even on the move. They're less compelling against hordes, as even when armed with the assault heavy bolt rifles, 7 intercessors put out the same hurt. Though they do enjoy greater range and staying power in cover. I guess that choice would come down to your overall plan.

 

And as for where the middle option fits in, I'm not sure it does. Their simulation compares the assault versions with the standard heavies using Rapid Fire. So the assaults out-range the standard heavies at that level of damage output by 12". So, I guess the takeaway is that there's no reason to take the standard heavy configuration. Unless maybe facing something with decent armor but moderate toughness and 1 wound - scouts or storm troopers or something of that ilk. 

[jaxom]

 

 So, I guess the takeaway is that there's no reason to take the standard heavy configuration. Unless maybe facing something with decent armor but moderate toughness and 1 wound - scouts or storm troopers or something of that ilk. 

 

SoBs? 

[CCE1981]

With Heavy Intercessors getting rapid fire bolters the Bolter Discipline might be updated to give Gravis Armor the ability to fire twice.

 

 

 

But reading the Goonhammer article on their weapon option taking 2x 5-man squads with the Executer Bolt Rifles would be incredible anti-marine unit, their first targets are Eliminators.

Edited September 15, 2020 by CCE1981

[MegaVolt87]

While people are bumping up 6-7 intercessors to compare stats/ points etc, people will either be taking 10 man units or combat squading, or just taking 5 man units to rob blast weapons of their potency. No one is taking 6-7 man intercessors units, likewise with these. This is a great 5 man unit no doubts for 9th edition.