Codex Predictions + Hopes

[WARMASTER_]

@Master Sheol that’s not what you were saying though? You said they don’t fit because they only teleport in but it’s just not true, the DW will have many tactical ways to deploy. So the BG do make sense as an inevitable inclusion to the DW

 

Lore and game don’t always mix but in this case they do, an armoured assault with land raiders and repulsor executioners with BG and Terminators would be possible in game and lore consistent

 

As would a teleport strike and a thunderhawk BG deployment (if very costly)

[Master Sheol]

@Master Sheol that’s not what you were saying though? You said they don’t fit because they only teleport in but it’s just not true, the DW will have many tactical ways to deploy. So the BG do make sense as an inevitable inclusion to the DW

 

Lore and game don’t always mix but in this case they do, an armoured assault with land raiders and repulsor executioners with BG and Terminators would be possible in game and lore consistent

 

As would a teleport strike and a thunderhawk BG deployment (if very costly)

Yes but if i want DW i do terminators in teleport strike and if i want i can put them into a LR too

If i Take BGV i already know i cannot teleport them or give them a drop pod so i know they are basically primaris CoVets pushed into DW for the only reason  that GW didnt knew what primaris unit push into DW and they didnt wanted to wait years to to have primaris TDA  equivalents ;)

[WARMASTER_]

@Master Sheol, Sure man you do you but there’s plenty of very valid reasons they’re there

[Lord_Ikka]

The number 1 thing I need them to do is to fix the Jink/Inner Circle issues in regards to what units have those rules. All DA terminators (like Relic termies) need to have the Inner Circle rule rather than just the Deathwing rule, and Bike squads (not Scout bike squads) need to have the Jink rule. Right now we have a weird moment where we have units that are DW/RW that don't benefit from the full rules, so either we need them to gain the rules or have Jink and Inner Circle just folded into the standard DW/RW rules. Hopefully we'll see something given that we are going to be able to "induct" squads into the DW/RW, whatever that means, but I'd like the traditional units to benefit from their full set of rules without it costing CP or something.

 

Or maybe this has already been previewed and I've missed it...?

Edited December 22, 2020 by Lord_Ikka

[Brother Ramael]

The number 1 thing I need them to do is to fix the Jink/Inner Circle issues in regards to what units have those rules. All DA terminators (like Relic termies) need to have the Inner Circle rule rather than just the Deathwing rule, and Bike squads (not Scout bike squads) need to have the Jink rule. Right now we have a weird moment where we have units that are DW/RW that don't benefit from the full rules, so either we need them to gain the rules or have Jink and Inner Circle just folded into the standard DW/RW rules. Hopefully we'll see something given that we are going to be able to "induct" squads into the DW/RW, whatever that means, but I'd like the traditional units to benefit from their full set of rules without it costing CP or something.

 

Or maybe this has already been previewed and I've missed it...?

It's sensible that bikers get Jinks and it makes sense that the VBG would get Inner Circle ( you would hear teeths gnashing all over the Imperium though); the alternative, especially since it was mentioned vehicles can get the DW keyword ( unless it's a crusade thing only), is that there are some DW/RW specific strategies that they can use while not having Inner Circle.

[Master Sheol]

 

The number 1 thing I need them to do is to fix the Jink/Inner Circle issues in regards to what units have those rules. All DA terminators (like Relic termies) need to have the Inner Circle rule rather than just the Deathwing rule, and Bike squads (not Scout bike squads) need to have the Jink rule. Right now we have a weird moment where we have units that are DW/RW that don't benefit from the full rules, so either we need them to gain the rules or have Jink and Inner Circle just folded into the standard DW/RW rules. Hopefully we'll see something given that we are going to be able to "induct" squads into the DW/RW, whatever that means, but I'd like the traditional units to benefit from their full set of rules without it costing CP or something.

 

Or maybe this has already been previewed and I've missed it...?

It's sensible that bikers get Jinks and it makes sense that the VBG would get Inner Circle ( you would hear teeths gnashing all over the Imperium though); the alternative, especially since it was mentioned vehicles can get the DW keyword ( unless it's a crusade thing only), is that there are some DW/RW specific strategies that they can use while not having Inner Circle.

 

If a unit of DW or RW will not have Inner Circle or Jink it will never see place in my DW/RW lists

If you dont have the DW/RW special rule then you are not frm this company and you don't deserve to be in a DW/RW list ;)

[Cpt_Reaper]

What I'd like to see fixed with the Supplement:

• Masters all have Inner Circle/Deathwing. I hated the retcon that not all Masters went through the Deathwing.
• All Terminator units have Inner Circle but Bladeguard do not.
• All Bikes have Jink but Scout Bikes do not.
• Primaris Interrogator Chaplains are needed, especially for later founding Chapters.

As for Gravis being the Primaris TDA...I will forever push back against that idea like I push back against those "jokes" about DA loyalty. It's stupid and I won't accept it. I would have rathered Deathwing got no new Primaris units. Pushing Gravis as TDA equal is...I refuse to accept it.

[Master Sheol]

What I'd like to see fixed with the Supplement:

• Masters all have Inner Circle/Deathwing. I hated the retcon that not all Masters went through the Deathwing.
• All Terminator units have Inner Circle but Bladeguard do not.
• All Bikes have Jink but Scout Bikes do not.
• Primaris Interrogator Chaplains are needed, especially for later founding Chapters.

As for Gravis being the Primaris TDA...I will forever push back against that idea like I push back against those "jokes" about DA loyalty. It's stupid and I won't accept it. I would have rathered Deathwing got no new Primaris units. Pushing Gravis as TDA equal is...I refuse to accept it.

- The problem about masters is the most stupid thing written ina  Codex since RT days... Masters ARE selected from the Knigth Masters (The leaders of the DWK squads) of the DW but when they go to batlle/reserve/scout companies they forget they were in DW? This is simply stupid

- Not all Terminator units have Inner Circle, only the ones from the Index (no Inner Circle for TDA Captain, TDA Ancient, TDA Librarian, Relic Terminators, and so on) so not only BGV need this fixed but also a lot of units too... And we need emendments in the supplement for some units that shpould nt be DA like Terminator Chaplain cause in DA only Interrogator-Chaplains are allowed to wear TDA

- Scout Bikes dont get the RW keyword in main SM codex so they cannot get Jink that is a RW Special rule... Scout bikes are 10th company and not 2nd company

- To have Primaris Interrogators Chaplains we first need a dedicated model but i dont think we will get one so Primaris successors chapters will continue to be the sons of the servant as usual

 

Gravis is not a TDA... Gravis is more a heavy power armour for roles like the primaris version of devastators or centurions... Primaris TDA will be another beast (2+/5++ Teleport strike and so on)

Edited December 22, 2020 by Master Sheol

[shabbadoo]

Everything Dark Angels on a bike should have Ravenwing training, as that is sort of the point of being on a bike for Dark Angels, and which isn't true of any other Chapter.

 

I hope we see some Dark Angels previews Christmas Eve/Day, as we are supposed to get our release in January (assuming there is no delay as with Death Guard).

Edited December 23, 2020 by shabbadoo

[WARMASTER_]

Everything Dark Angels on a bike should have Ravenwing training, as that is sort of the point of being on a bike for Dark Angels, and which isn't true of any other Chapter.

 

I hope we see some Dark Angels previews Christmas Eve/Day, as we are supposed to get our release in January (assuming there is no delay as with Death Guard).

If they’re not RW bikers they won’t have Ravenwing training. It’s on most of the codex’s saying the Ravenwing only choose the best riders or assault troops from other companies to join so there’s definitely other bikers in 3rd/10th not yet accepted or trained

 

Unfortunately it might be March we see our codex now could February though

[WrathOfTheLion]

It looks like they'll be delaying the supplement, which is unfortunate.

 

Perhaps we'll at least see some details before. I'd really like to see some painted models and examples of the new units, as that would be helpful for working on them even if the book isn't out yet.

Edited December 23, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yup, DG confirmed for Jan with one Dex in Feb and one in March.

We patiently Watch.

[shabbadoo]

 

Everything Dark Angels on a bike should have Ravenwing training, as that is sort of the point of being on a bike for Dark Angels, and which isn't true of any other Chapter.

 

I hope we see some Dark Angels previews Christmas Eve/Day, as we are supposed to get our release in January (assuming there is no delay as with Death Guard).

If they’re not RW bikers they won’t have Ravenwing training. It’s on most of the codex’s saying the Ravenwing only choose the best riders or assault troops from other companies to join so there’s definitely other bikers in 3rd/10th not yet accepted or trained.

As if we didn't know that, but we will stick with what you just stated, and further extrapolate...

 

...that  any specialist (HQ or otherwise) that would go into battle on a bike (ostensibly so as to accompany Ravenwing units) would therefore be among only the best of riders. And so we have an Apothecary on a bike accompanying the Black Knights Command unit, or a Librarian on a bike attached to the Ravenwing, or perhaps even a Techmarine on a bike doing so. And then there is that 2nd Company Chaplain...on a bike.  All this guy does is ride with the Ravenwing, all of the time, and yet we are supposed to believe that he is not as skilled as Ravening n00b Marine #87? Sounds really good to have a leader not be able to lead by example. Excellent for Morale!  

 

The point being, perhaps it is about time GW exercised some common sense about these bike-mounted specialist units? Perhaps the Dark Angels are just barely intelligent/sensible enough to choose those from among the Apothecarion, Librarius, Reclusiam, and Armoury who have a natural aptitude/affinity for bikes...to ride bikes...let alone train them to do so?

 

This is my bike-mounted Librarian Harley, and this is my bike-mounted Chaplain Davidson. They have been riding for twenty-eight years and sixty-three years, respectively, but they are only passable riders.

[Cpt_Reaper]

 

What I'd like to see fixed with the Supplement:

• Masters all have Inner Circle/Deathwing. I hated the retcon that not all Masters went through the Deathwing.
• All Terminator units have Inner Circle but Bladeguard do not.
• All Bikes have Jink but Scout Bikes do not.
• Primaris Interrogator Chaplains are needed, especially for later founding Chapters.

As for Gravis being the Primaris TDA...I will forever push back against that idea like I push back against those "jokes" about DA loyalty. It's stupid and I won't accept it. I would have rathered Deathwing got no new Primaris units. Pushing Gravis as TDA equal is...I refuse to accept it.

- The problem about masters is the most stupid thing written ina  Codex since RT days... Masters ARE selected from the Knigth Masters (The leaders of the DWK squads) of the DW but when they go to batlle/reserve/scout companies they forget they were in DW? This is simply stupid

- Not all Terminator units have Inner Circle, only the ones from the Index (no Inner Circle for TDA Captain, TDA Ancient, TDA Librarian, Relic Terminators, and so on) so not only BGV need this fixed but also a lot of units too... And we need emendments in the supplement for some units that shpould nt be DA like Terminator Chaplain cause in DA only Interrogator-Chaplains are allowed to wear TDA

- Scout Bikes dont get the RW keyword in main SM codex so they cannot get Jink that is a RW Special rule... Scout bikes are 10th company and not 2nd company

- To have Primaris Interrogators Chaplains we first need a dedicated model but i dont think we will get one so Primaris successors chapters will continue to be the sons of the servant as usual

 

Gravis is not a TDA... Gravis is more a heavy power armour for roles like the primaris version of devastators or centurions... Primaris TDA will be another beast (2+/5++ Teleport strike and so on)

 

My mistake. I did not word my points very well. What I meant is that all TDA units should have Inner Circle and BGV should not. All bikes except scouts should have Jink.

[Berzul]

 

 

 

 

What I'd like to see fixed with the Supplement:

• Masters all have Inner Circle/Deathwing. I hated the retcon that not all Masters went through the Deathwing.
• All Terminator units have Inner Circle but Bladeguard do not.
• All Bikes have Jink but Scout Bikes do not.
• Primaris Interrogator Chaplains are needed, especially for later founding Chapters.

As for Gravis being the Primaris TDA...I will forever push back against that idea like I push back against those "jokes" about DA loyalty. It's stupid and I won't accept it. I would have rathered Deathwing got no new Primaris units. Pushing Gravis as TDA equal is...I refuse to accept it.

- The problem about masters is the most stupid thing written ina Codex since RT days... Masters ARE selected from the Knigth Masters (The leaders of the DWK squads) of the DW but when they go to batlle/reserve/scout companies they forget they were in DW? This is simply stupid

- Not all Terminator units have Inner Circle, only the ones from the Index (no Inner Circle for TDA Captain, TDA Ancient, TDA Librarian, Relic Terminators, and so on) so not only BGV need this fixed but also a lot of units too... And we need emendments in the supplement for some units that shpould nt be DA like Terminator Chaplain cause in DA only Interrogator-Chaplains are allowed to wear TDA

- Scout Bikes dont get the RW keyword in main SM codex so they cannot get Jink that is a RW Special rule... Scout bikes are 10th company and not 2nd company

- To have Primaris Interrogators Chaplains we first need a dedicated model but i dont think we will get one so Primaris successors chapters will continue to be the sons of the servant as usual

 

Gravis is not a TDA... Gravis is more a heavy power armour for roles like the primaris version of devastators or centurions... Primaris TDA will be another beast (2+/5++ Teleport strike and so on)

My mistake. I did not word my points very well. What I meant is that all TDA units should have Inner Circle and BGV should not. All bikes except scouts should have Jink.

I'm pretty sure we can expect this on the upcoming codex.

[Gederas]

Personally, I feel as such:

ALL Ravenwing units get Jink, this is 100%. If it don't have Jink, it ain't Ravenwing.

 

As to the Deathwing thing.... If regular Deathwing Terminators get Inner Circle (which they do btw) then Bladeguard Veterans also should get it. Because regular Deathwing Terminators could have members just inducted into the Deathwing, or long-standing veterans. Just like the Bladeguard Veterans.

 

Also, regarding the "Gravis Armour != Terminator Armour" thing, look at it from a Great Crusade perspective (which is the basis for most Primaris stuff).  There, Terminator armour was simply heavier armour that was used when a Marine needed better protection. Which is what Gravis is.

 

Now will we get a Gravis unit that is a Primaris Terminator? Maybe, we don't know yet.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Gederas

[davextreme]

As I’ve said, I don’t actually expect bigger changes like Gravis Deathwing because it would require a larger overhaul of how the Dark Angels work than I think GW seems to want to do.

 

But if I’m Azrael, I’m either rejecting promoting all Primaris marines, or I’m having to start thinking about this. Once a few decades have passed since all new recruits have been Primaris, the Deathwing will have taken losses and some of this Primaris marines will be up for promotion. A full company of Bladeguard Veterans is not a drop-in replacement for Terminators, so either the function of the Deathwing changes, or its makeup does. Does that mean it ceases to be an entire company of one type of squad (well, two with Knights)? Does it get restructured to be more like other first companies with like veteran Intercessors? This is where Gravis starts to make sense, even if they’re not 1:1 replacements for Terminators. But, again, I’m not saying this is what Azrael would do, and I’m absolutely not saying it’s what GW will do. But, storywise, Deathwing’s Primaris role isn’t as easy as Ravenwing who just slot in Outriders, Invaders, and Storm Speeders.

[Aeri]

My dream is still Primaris Deathwing Terminators. Just scale them up a little, keep the astetic and everybody wins. This type of armour is so iconic I don't want to lose it :(

[FarFromSam]

I use primaris as truescale marines. Once you remove the awful lore of primaris, it allows you to enjoy the nice looking models (BGV). There's a long precedent of PA DW, and I look at it in that light. Edited December 24, 2020 by farfromsam

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think they will keep terminators as terminators

[Interrogator Stobz]

I do too.

 

It feels like GW listened to the gnashing of teeth regarding OG marines and will slow the flow for a while.

 

New toys will definitely be Primaris, that goes without saying; but they now seem to be maintaining the status quo to keep whatever portion of the player base only wants OGs.

 

Or it could simply be COVID delay.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[shabbadoo]

So, lots of Mortal Slaanesh, and new character models for Sororitas and Deldar. Looks like we are most likely getting the COVID bump.

 

And not even a single sighting of the Terminus Est.

 

Slow moving Death Guard are turning out to be kinda sneaky.

 

We know you are around here somewhere, Typhus! SHOW YOURSELF!!!

 

 

On the upside, the Jolly Fat Man brought me a box of 10 Hellblasters and a DA Primaris Upgrade pack. Guess that will tide me over.

 

But I also got a lump of coal in the form of a decal sheet THAT HAS NO DARK ANGELS DECALS ON IT!!! Seriously GW? I think all the core Primaris models kits are pure Ultramarines decals now, which for non-Ultrmarines players was a complete   move thing for GW to do; especially considering that our Primaris Upgrade pack is the only one to NOT come with decals. 

 

Which brings me back on topic. Release-wise, hopefully we get a revised Primaris Upgrade pack that contains TWO sprues AND A DECAL SHEET, such that a full 10-man box can be properly converted. Crap on somebody enough, and they'll be happy with the little things, right? We have totally not experienced this before!

Edited December 26, 2020 by shabbadoo

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

 

Everything Dark Angels on a bike should have Ravenwing training, as that is sort of the point of being on a bike for Dark Angels, and which isn't true of any other Chapter.

 

I hope we see some Dark Angels previews Christmas Eve/Day, as we are supposed to get our release in January (assuming there is no delay as with Death Guard).

If they’re not RW bikers they won’t have Ravenwing training. It’s on most of the codex’s saying the Ravenwing only choose the best riders or assault troops from other companies to join so there’s definitely other bikers in 3rd/10th not yet accepted or trained.

As if we didn't know that, but we will stick with what you just stated, and further extrapolate...

 

...that any specialist (HQ or otherwise) that would go into battle on a bike (ostensibly so as to accompany Ravenwing units) would therefore be among only the best of riders. And so we have an Apothecary on a bike accompanying the Black Knights Command unit, or a Librarian on a bike attached to the Ravenwing, or perhaps even a Techmarine on a bike doing so. And then there is that 2nd Company Chaplain...on a bike. All this guy does is ride with the Ravenwing, all of the time, and yet we are supposed to believe that he is not as skilled as Ravening n00b Marine #87? Sounds really good to have a leader not be able to lead by example. Excellent for Morale!

 

The point being, perhaps it is about time GW exercised some common sense about these bike-mounted specialist units? Perhaps the Dark Angels are just barely intelligent/sensible enough to choose those from among the Apothecarion, Librarius, Reclusiam, and Armoury who have a natural aptitude/affinity for bikes...to ride bikes...let alone train them to do so?

 

This is my bike-mounted Librarian Harley, and this is my bike-mounted Chaplain Davidson. They have been riding for twenty-eight years and sixty-three years, respectively, but they are only passable riders.

 

Thanks for the pointless attitude man... although maybe in future be more concise with your original premise and actually have a valid point?

 

“Everything Dark Angels on a bike should have Ravenwing training, as that is sort of the point of being on a bike for Dark Angels, and which isn't true of any other Chapter”

 

False ... Scout Bikers ... shouldn’t have “Ravenwing”

 

Also your point does not mean why don’t the Ravenwing attached units & HQ’s have “Ravenwing” it means why doesn’t the entire chapter have “Ravenwing” if on a bike? And my answer of they shouldn’t is still valid.

 

But let’s extrapolate your reply

 

There’s no Techmarine / Chaplain or Librarian on bike, so units that you’re claiming should have RW, don't actually happen to exist in the codex

 

But... of all the actually possible HQ’s and Elite units that happen to exist in the codex, are all in fact “Ravenwing” Captain on Bike.. Yes

Primaris Chaplain on Bike... Yes

Ravenwing Apothecary / Champion / Ancient... Yes! all RW!

 

So I’m struggling to see the gripe and the tone of the reply?

 

GW have seen “Common sense” and already granted every available unit in the game “Ravenwing” also instead or giving people attitude for valid responses maybe just read the KeyWords ay?

[shabbadoo]

Sorry, no tone was intended, though I can see how that could be read into it. Seems much of my complaint is based on my own ignorance/failing memory.

 

GW actually gave the Bike Chaplain the Ravenwing keyword? And, shockingly, the Captain? I don't recall that at all. I haven't read the codex/DA update since the latter came out, don't have the codex/model yet, and have been following other things since March that don't involve gathering with people to play games, so it seems I am just very out-of-touch. Trying to get back into it all now, even with the delay in the release of our codex. Successor players, who want a slight variation, must be very happy about the Captain thing (considering that options have previously been limited to Sammael mostly). Now that the holidays are over, and I didn't get the Chaplain on Bike, now I will get one. For a "plain" Chaplain, the model looks great.

 

Scout Bikes are not quite the same, so I don't include them in the conversation regarding Ravenwing, bike-mounted HQ's, and so forth. I think the closest we'll see to any sort of "true" 10th Company HQ's now exist in the Vanguard HQ's, which work very well for that (omni-scramblers, special deployment, and even camo- cloaks). The only thing missing in that regard is a Vanguard Chaplain, as a quasi-Apothecary exists in the units, and the Ancient and Champion are perhaps not the best battlefield fit for the 10th Company. And a Phobos-armored Techmarine doesn't make all that much sense. Perhaps when Scout Bikes go away there will be Vanguard Outriders too (a quasi-Tech Adept unit option fits best here).

 

You are right in that the Ravenwing Command specialists are now treated as full-on examples of what they are - Apothecary of the 2nd Company, etc. I recall that, now that you mention it. Upcoming releases are one of the points of the thread though. I would not be too surprised if they did not make a bike-mounted Techmarine any time soon. As to the Librarian, I really hope they make one; with robes, not a tabard. Considering the Ravenwing treatment they are giving bike-mounted HQ's, for me that follows as a very close second to seeing some type of Primaris Terminators. If the later were coming, I think we would have seen/heard hints of it long before now, as despite GW having really clamped down on leaks, they have also become more forthcoming with their own previews.

[Gederas]

Firsborn Bike Captain and Primaris Bike Chaplain both get the RAVENWING keyword when in a Dark Angels army, yes