State of the Union (Heresy)

[Noserenda]

Was anyone at the WHW event this weekend ooi? Curious how it all shook out in the end.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Definitely not me, quite a ways away

I'm thinking we might not see anything until towards next summer if they're doing a big edition launch, but I'm just hoping then it's a good, nice relaunch.

 

It's inevitable that they're going to do more plastic. There's no way they're doing a game like the Old World with the basic troops in resin, that'll flop like a wet noodle. So clearly their historical games (AoD, ToW) will end up with plastic ranges.

Edited October 11, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[MCC]

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:16 AM, WrathOfTheLion said:

Definitely not me, quite a ways away

 

I'm thinking we might not see anything until towards next summer if they're doing a big edition launch, but I'm just hoping then it's a good, nice relaunch.

 

It's inevitable that they're going to do more plastic. There's no way they're doing a game like the Old World with the basic troops in resin, that'll flop like a wet noodle. So clearly their historical games (AoD, ToW) will end up with plastic ranges.

 

I dont know if itd flop if the basic troops are in resin, lets not forget were playing a game where a ten man assault squad would set you back £80

 

As for the new edition, I hope its not going to be next summer and is more like that leaked schedule which said November. However next year is looking more and more likely. If they are serious about it being the 3rd game and theres a huge release in plastics id be more than happy to wait! The rumours of Mk II - MkVI being released in plastic are great but id love more than just basic tactical marines. Ideally wed get breachers destroyers and assault marines too! I dont mind paying forgeworld prices to get weapon upgrades/tanks/legion specific units but having a 10 man Assault squad be that expensive is prohibitive when you have to field at least 10 in a squad 

Edited October 11, 2021 by MCC

[Astartes Consul]

I'm still hoping for November/December - there is a gap in the release schedule and GW have spent the better part of 2021 slowly teasing & releasing new AoD stuff. Would absolutely kill off that momentum to get to the pre-Christmas retail season and just go 'Okay so you've had some new models and campaign packs, now wait another six months for the box'.

 

At least, that is what I'm telling myself.

 

  On 10/11/2021 at 7:51 AM, MCC said:

 

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:16 AM, WrathOfTheLion said:

Definitely not me, quite a ways away

I'm thinking we might not see anything until towards next summer if they're doing a big edition launch, but I'm just hoping then it's a good, nice relaunch.

 

It's inevitable that they're going to do more plastic. There's no way they're doing a game like the Old World with the basic troops in resin, that'll flop like a wet noodle. So clearly their historical games (AoD, ToW) will end up with plastic ranges.

 

I dont know if itd flop if the basic troops are in resin, lets not forget were playing a game where a ten man assault squad would set you back £80

 

As for the new edition, I hope its not going to be next summer and is more like that leaked schedule which said November. However next year is looking more and more likely. If they are serious about it being the 3rd game and theres a huge release in plastics id be more than happy to wait! The rumours of Mk II - MkVI being released in plastic are great but id love more than just basic tactical marines. Ideally wed get breachers destroyers and assault marines too! I dont mind paying forgeworld prices to get weapon upgrades/tanks/legion specific units but having a 10 man Assault squad be that expensive is prohibitive when you have to field at least 10 in a squad 

 

 

If the WfB reboot is anything like the old game - and they've said it will be largely in the same ball park and that people will be able to use their old armies - then a basic infantry until is averaging around twenty miniatures, not five or ten.

 

GW does also have all of the moulds for the most recent Warhammer kits as well - indeed plenty of them are still for sale as part of the range AoS.

[Gorgoff]

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:16 AM, WrathOfTheLion said:

Definitely not me, quite a ways away

 

I'm thinking we might not see anything until towards next summer if they're doing a big edition launch, but I'm just hoping then it's a good, nice relaunch.

 

It's inevitable that they're going to do more plastic. There's no way they're doing a game like the Old World with the basic troops in resin, that'll flop like a wet noodle. So clearly their historical games (AoD, ToW) will end up with plastic ranges.

That's a strange conclusion.

Because they allegedly can't make The Old World with resin miniatures, "clearly their historically games will end up in plastic ranges"?

Very far strech to say the least.

 

  On 10/11/2021 at 7:51 AM, MCC said:

 

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:16 AM, WrathOfTheLion said:

Definitely not me, quite a ways away

 

I'm thinking we might not see anything until towards next summer if they're doing a big edition launch, but I'm just hoping then it's a good, nice relaunch.

 

It's inevitable that they're going to do more plastic. There's no way they're doing a game like the Old World with the basic troops in resin, that'll flop like a wet noodle. So clearly their historical games (AoD, ToW) will end up with plastic ranges.

 

I dont know if itd flop if the basic troops are in resin, lets not forget were playing a game where a ten man assault squad would set you back £80

 

As for the new edition, I hope its not going to be next summer and is more like that leaked schedule which said November. However next year is looking more and more likely. If they are serious about it being the 3rd game and theres a huge release in plastics id be more than happy to wait! The rumours of Mk II - MkVI being released in plastic are great but id love more than just basic tactical marines. Ideally wed get breachers destroyers and assault marines too! I dont mind paying forgeworld prices to get weapon upgrades/tanks/legion specific units but having a 10 man Assault squad be that expensive is prohibitive when you have to field at least 10 in a squad 

 

I say we never gonna see plastic units like destroyers etc. Maybe they change it to upgrade kits, like you assume, but I say it is unlikely since they just re-released Destroyers.

[No Foes Remain]

So my White Dwarf arrived today, I flicked to the Heresy section (7 pages is better than the nothing we've been getting before) for the Armour through the Ages. It's basically a page on each armour mark with a little interesting bit in how each Forge World 'activates' an STC by putting it on an Altar to the Machine God and it basically gets scanned and uploaded to their machines and transfered to other Forge Worlds.

 

If anyone is interested I can post some excerpts here of some of the more interesting bits.

[Gorgoff]

  On 10/11/2021 at 11:48 AM, No Foes Remain said:

So my White Dwarf arrived today, I flicked to the Heresy section (7 pages is better than the nothing we've been getting before) for the Armour through the Ages. It's basically a page on each armour mark with a little interesting bit in how each Forge World 'activates' an STC by putting it on an Altar to the Machine God and it basically gets scanned and uploaded to their machines and transfered to other Forge Worlds.

 

If anyone is interested I can post some excerpts here of some of the more interesting bits.

I am interested. Proceed. :)

[No Foes Remain]

Righty'o, let's get started then.

 

First cool bit:

 

Font of the Machine God:
 

"In order that any item may enter mass manufacture in the workshops and production lines of a forge world, its 'imprint' must first be laid before that forge world's high altar of the Machine God, whereupon it is offered unto the manifold in order to become known to the machines that will manufacture it. In the days before the treachery of the Warmaster, each high altar was connected, each a node in a vast, galaxy-spanning network, so that an imprint offered to the Machine God at one altar would in time be disseminated across every forge world in the galaxy, that is might be manufactured whereever it might be required. Some such worlds might impose their own distinctive vernacular upon a technology, creating a dizzy array of largely cosmetic variation, while some might reproduce the imprint in its original form as a matter od doctrinal purity. Thus is dervied the naming convention for the various imprints, with the purest forms often being named for the preeminent forge world in all the galaxy and giving rise to the numerous 'Mars pattern' technologies and instrumentalities.

 

With the outbreak of the Horus Heresy, however, the vast network of high altars was discrupted. Where previously most (though by no means all) forge worlds had regarded this sharing of data as a vital duty and an act of faith, now they sought to withhold imprints lest rivals and enemies utilise their weapons against them. An unseen war erupted in the realm of pure information known only to the servants of the Omnissiah, a war every bit as bitter and hard-fought as that which raged in the material realm, and indeed, as we would later discern, in other realms besides."

 

The next paragraph adds a little detail on how the way was fought, "kill-codes, murdermemetics" (I like that word) against the minds of the other forge world servants  and "breaking the great data seals placed upon the enemy's high altar so as to plunder the resources beyond."

 

This adds another layer to the Heresy and the preperation to it as forge worlds allied to Horus would take any new tech from other forge worlds and turn it over to the traitors, then when the Heresy begins propper they start to hack and corrupt forge worlds they either cannot reach or couldn't take because the fight would be too costly.

 

 

Next bit

 

Resupply and Demand:

 

"[...] As variants and entirely new marks of armour entrered service, hugh quantities were distributed outwards throughout the increasinly stretched supply chains of the Great Crusade. Entire worlds were set aside by the Terran bureaucracy to serve as provender and marshalling points, many millions of suits of powerarmour and countless examples of the entire panoply of war being housed in whole cities of storage facilities.

 

Upon complete of a campaign, or simple when at last they paused long enough for the supply fleets to catch them up, the Legions would be resupplied en masse. Thousands of suits of armour would be issues at once in this manner, entire companies, battalions and Chapters setting aside their old, worn-out or battle damaged suits and taking up whichever mark was in immediate supply. It was common at that time, therefore, for legionaries to display a marked homogenity with their brethren and for units to bear arms and armour of the exact same vintage. In general, only officers and specialists within a unit might retain older marks of armour, invariably some idiosyncratic individals or groups with the ability to do soe preferring to express their specific tastes in panoply."

 

 

I thought this bit was neat as we don't really get to see much in terms of logistics in either the BL or FW books, and the idea of worlds that wouldn't be viable for mass colonisation being turned into storage dumps is pretty cool.

 

 

 

Right, going to do a proper read though of the armour marks and going to pick out interesting bits of that as I don't think I can copy all the text here (and haven't done yet though the two above are the more interesting bits so far, the 'Font' bit is but two paragraphs of 6). Mods, let me know if this is too much or the right amount.

 

Edit: Sorted out some more, trying to focus on the newer bits that I don't think has been seen before. I've put it in a spoiler as there is quite a bit but I think this is about a third of what is covered in the White Dwarf.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Mark I ‘Thunder Armour:

 

A little bit saying that the Mark I armour was often worn at ceremonies such as Ullanor, where “there were numerous instances of key officers or functionaries, in particular champions and banner bearers, proudly attired in the armour of their forebears.”

 

“The other instance of continued, or rather returned, use of Thunder Armour is recorded among the ranks of the so-called ‘Blackshields’. These outcast Legionaries, regardless of their affiliations, operated far beyond the influence of either Terra or the Warmaster, and bereft of conventional supply lines, they would often utilise any item of weaponry or wargear they could obtain, including marks and classes long since passed obsolescence. At such scattered locals as Susa 9, Okku Station, Belami and Kantim Secondus, Blacksield Legionaries reportedly wearing Mark I armour were encountered by Loyalist forces in battle, despite its obvious deficiencies compared to other, later marks.”

 

 

The Ubiquitous Bolt Gun:

 

“[…]

Broadly speaking, each mark of the Legiones Astartes power armour was issued around the same time as a corresponding new mark of the bolter and, in many cases, especially during a mass, post-campaign Legion-wide resupply, they were issued at exactly the same time. Thus it was common to witness Space Marines clad in Mark II or III power armour bearing the distinctive ‘Phobos’ pattern bolter, while later on, it was common for those issued with the Mark IV ‘Maximus’ suits to be issued the ‘Tigris’ pattern bolter alongside it. By the time Marks V and VI were in heavy use, the ‘Umbra’ pattern bolter was being manufactured in vast quantities, and this would serve as the iconic pattern of Legiones Astartes bolter for many years to come.”

 

 

Mark II Crusade Armour:

“[…] Mark II power armour was all but ubiquitous, many millions of suits being manufactured on Mars and elsewhere for service in the Legions. For the greater part of the two centuries for which the Great Crusade waged, Mark II plate was synonymous with the Legiones Astartes, the Imperium and the Imperial Truth. Even though the mortal multitudes of the Imperial Armour outnumbered the Transhuman Space Marines a thousand times over, it was the grim visage of the Mark II helm that was at once the sum of all fears and all hopes of the scattered tribes of humanity, dependent on whether they chose to oppose or to welcome the coming of the Expeditionary fleets.

 

By the closing decade of the Great Crusade, Mark IV power armour had supplanted Mark II in many Legions, but two factors converged to keep it in service long beyond the point when the latter mark might have rendered it obsolete. The first is the simple matter of logistics, only writ large upon the galactic scale. Those Legions that had pressed the furthest into the darkness, or conversely, whose home worlds were in distance far from Terra, often continued to draw upon existing reserves of Mark II simply because newer patterns had yet to reach them in great quantities. [Highlights the White Scars here in reference to them being beyond supply lines]

 

[Next two Paragraphs mention the loyalists having lots of Mark II due to Horus shifting most deliveries to Legions loyal to him.]

 

 

Mark III Iron Armour:

 

“[…] [Mentions Mark III being a specialised variant of Mark II and that it was still kept in service by all Legions for heavy assault.

 

Throughout the years of the Horus Heresy, there would be countless occasions when a Legionary unit equipped with Iron Armour might be deployed, or when one whose warriors preferred other marks would don Mark III for a particular operation. Mark III found heavy use in many boarding actions that occurred as the Warmaster’s vast combined fleets advanced from the Isstvan System towards Terra, a march that took the better part of a decade to complete and that saw the destruction of many thousands of capital-grade void ships. This manner of warfare was not limited to the cramped confines of warships, for other ‘zones mortalis’ were found upon space stations and defence monitors or cored deep into ancient asteroids. Neither were all fought in the cold depths of space, for many such battles took place within fortresses and bunter networks, within twisting hive cities or even deep beneath the earth in naturally occurring chambers turned into warzones by the coming of the war.

 

[Next three paragraphs mention it being used by the Imperial Fists in boarding actions, Death Guard in infantry assaults and Iron Warriors in siege actions as well as some use in the Space Wolves.]

 

[Another small mention below about ‘The Lost Mark “Imperial Pattern”]

 

 

Mark IV Maximus:

 

“At one time intended as the epitome of Astartes power armour, Mark IV was in mass production at the time the Horus Hersey Broke out and so had been issued in varying quantities to every single Legion. [… Mentions of Horus diverting stocks to the would-be traitors]

[Text under picture of Mark IV clad Ultramarine] “[… More mentions of Horus diverting stocks] but the Ultramarines, according to records the most numerous Legion at that time, managed to procure it in great numbers too.”

 

 

Mark V Heresy:

 

“It is well documented that the designation of ‘Mark V’ was a retrospective one intended to describe a bread class of ad hoc, ersatz and field-modified power armour that saw every greater use as the Horus Heresy progressed due to the difficulty many units had in obtaining replacement suits to replace those irreparably damaged in battle. That, however, covers only part of the truth, and the issue of what constitutes Mark V armour is one worth delving into in more detail. Of Particular importance is the fact that Mark V Legiones Astartes power armour can be divided broadly into two types.

 

The first type is occasionally referred to in the more obscure annals of the war as ‘Production Mark V’. This form consists of elements of power armour that most Legions were able to manufacture in their own forges, or else otherwise obtain for themselves, falling back in common designs for parts that had specific cross-compatibilities. For example the, arms and upper legs of production Mark V are in fact derived from early Mark VI designs, with the addition of distinctive external heat sinks and the banded wrist seals of Mark VII. The lower legs are too based on early Mark VI designs, Production Heresy Armour uses the same power pack as the later Corvus pattern, so it is essentially a midway point between Mark IV and Mark VI that uses elements of both, with some further elements that saw full expression in the much later Mark VII. In essence, the most common and recognizable form of Mark V armour is a stabilised hybrid of those elements of Marks IV, VI and VII that could be locally manufactured of obtained from extant stocks and that could be maintained even in the face of the extreme lack of supply all of the Legiones experienced at some point or another.

 

The other type – ‘Non-Production Mark V’ – is a genuine amalgamation of field modifications combining several different marks of armour in ways no Tech-Priest would ever think to sanction. In general, Mark II and III components can be combined without issue, as can those of Marks IV, Mark VI and the much later Mark VII. Parts outside those two distinct groups can only be combined with one another with great difficulty, however, and so this was often only seen in the more technically adepts legions such as the Iron Hands and Salamanders – in particular those elements of the ‘Shattered Legions’ that were cut off from ready sources of resupply in the wake of the treachery at Isstvan V.

 

[Next two paragraphs mention Legions cut off from supply lanes converting what they had into Non-Production Mark V, mainly the Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard but also mentions Imperial fists garrisons away from Terra who were forced to use them. Also Mentions the World Eaters having “heavy use of Mark V towards the end of the war”.

 

 

Mark VI Corvus:

 

“Mark VI entered service just before the outbreak of the Heresy, and it was almost certainly never intended for mass issue but more use by more specialized sub-units. It was manufactured on Mars, and most of those suits that saw service in the early to mid period of the war were evacuated along with the surviving Loyalist forces at the climax of the fall of the Red Planet. Many of these suits were issued to the Raven Guard Legion upon their brief return to the Sol System and saw service throughout the remainder of the war.

 

[Next paragraph mentions the Raven Guard having more Mark VI than other Legions and that those Legions “were in possession of Varying quantities even before the outbreak of the war.” Also mentions that the Alpha Legion appeared to have a lot as well.

 

“Towards the end of the Horus Heresy, Mark VI was in wide use throughout almost every Legion, for both sides were in possession of the imprints, and forge worlds allied to both Terra and the Warmaster were able to produce it in large quantities. In the main, it was those Legions in direct contact with a functioning supply chain that received the largest numbers of Mark VI suits, while individual units separated from reliable supply lines by distance or circumstances were forced to rely on the ersatz Mark V. By the time of the Siege of Terra, however, when the supply lines of most of the participants had been re-established, Mark VI was the most numerous pattern in service, and this would continue well into the scouring and the present age.”

 

[Last paragraph mentions that Mark VI would end up being associated with the Emperor’s Children and that “have been observed to field troops who are evidently the descendents of the dread Kacophoni. […] appear to favour a heavily debased and corrupted variant of Corvus armor[…].”

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by No Foes Remain

[Noserenda]

Plastic core troops are always going to be essential to getting a game off the ground, AoD is a perfect example given the absolute explosion in numbers when the Plastic Mk4 released, and while there was a niche beforehand for whole resin armies in 40k it never really took off for the much higher model count needed for Warhammer, especially if the new armies are puny (and therefore cheap in points) humans! 

[Lucien Eilam]

Everything they’ve released in plastic for AoD has done double-duty as a 40k kit. Same for everything we have concrete evidence for being in the works. That wouldn’t work for new, ranked-up, square base miniatures and AoS, or AoD units that don’t exist in 40k.

 

Are GW really going to have two mostly plastic fantasy war-games and two mostly plastic sci-fi war-games, all in the same scale, and mostly the same setting?

 

For better or worse, resin and expense are still differentiators for AoD versus 40k, making one clearly the (relative) mainstream choice and the other the hardcore niche. It’s not like Specialist Games, which are a different kind of experience altogether. If AoD and WHFB become all/mostly plastic, they’re directly competing with 40k and AoS, and likely splitting the community to an extent that AoD hasn’t so far.

[Cris R]

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:58 PM, Lucien Eilam said:

Everything they’ve released in plastic for AoD has done double-duty as a 40k kit. Same for everything we have concrete evidence for being in the works. That wouldn’t work for new, ranked-up, square base miniatures and AoS, or AoD units that don’t exist in 40k.

 

Are GW really going to have two mostly plastic fantasy war-games and two mostly plastic sci-fi war-games, all in the same scale, and mostly the same setting?

 

For better or worse, resin and expense are still differentiators for AoD versus 40k, making one clearly the (relative) mainstream choice and the other the hardcore niche. It’s not like Specialist Games, which are a different kind of experience altogether. If AoD and WHFB become all/mostly plastic, they’re directly competing with 40k and AoS, and likely splitting the community to an extent that AoD hasn’t so far.

I agree but also think the rulesets are another important point of differentiation. If it was the case that GW only sold minis, you could make the case that their price is the only differentiator between AoD/The Old World and 40k/AoS. But AoD uses its bespoke version of 7th edition and the Old World is going to a mass ranked game, which doesn't make them perfect substitutions for 40k and AoS. So while AoD 2.0 and the Old World will draw some 40k and AoS players - 40k's transition to 8th and 9th prompting some folks to migrate to AoD setting the precedent - I think the rules will be the primary draw for new players, especially if you see an expansion of plastic ranges for AoD that lower the costs of getting into the game.

 

I'd also say the other point of differentiation for 30k is the aesthetics and "feel" of the setting, so that's also something to consider when thinking about this topic.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Cris R

[Noserenda]

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:58 PM, Lucien Eilam said:

Everything they’ve released in plastic for AoD has done double-duty as a 40k kit. Same for everything we have concrete evidence for being in the works. That wouldn’t work for new, ranked-up, square base miniatures and AoS, or AoD units that don’t exist in 40k.

 

Are GW really going to have two mostly plastic fantasy war-games and two mostly plastic sci-fi war-games, all in the same scale, and mostly the same setting?

 

For better or worse, resin and expense are still differentiators for AoD versus 40k, making one clearly the (relative) mainstream choice and the other the hardcore niche. It’s not like Specialist Games, which are a different kind of experience altogether. If AoD and WHFB become all/mostly plastic, they’re directly competing with 40k and AoS, and likely splitting the community to an extent that AoD hasn’t so far.

 

The rules are a much bigger differentiation than the material the models are made out of, especially given the modern FW standards than dont really utilise the slim advantages resin has for consumers. Plastic releases are just superior on our end.

 

Warhammer and Age of Sigmar are barely in the same genre as each other so there really isnt a competition problem there,

 

Personally i think splitting AoD away from being a 40k expansion was a big mistake, its always going to come off worse trying to directly compete with its more sucessful dad after all. The niche is there for folks who like clunky rules and nice tactile props though ;) :P 

 

But yes, plastic is unequivocally a big bonus to model range, and GW has apparently brought down the costs of plastic sprues to make it profitable enough for smaller games, i would be deeply surprised if they dont use it for Old World if they can use it for Kal Jerico mini.

[derLumpi]

I guess this is it. We either get to know when they will release this Box this year or in 2022. So either way we win. :) Edited October 11, 2021 by derLumpi

[No Foes Remain]

With this Warhammer Day I think we'll get a teaser, probably them showing off the pictures in better res and clarity and telling us it will be coming in 2022. Which is irritating after months of silence and months of rumours saying this was meant to be out a few years ago, which makes sense if it was going to come out at the same time as the Seige of Terra BL books.

 

 

Also I've updated my post with the excerpts from White Dwarf above, put the added stuff in the spoiler.

[Hfran Morkai]

I'd take knowing when it is coming, even if it is next year than just guessing.

 

Right now I'm putting aside cash I could be spending on the hobby but apart from picking the odd thing up aren't really spending.

[Indefragable]

  On 10/4/2021 at 7:32 PM, Cris R said:

 

  On 10/4/2021 at 6:57 PM, Spagunk said:

 

Ofanim never stuck me as a unit type in my opinion. My head cannon always painted them more of "units not normally attributed to line members" I.E. seekers, vigilators, recon marines etc. Things that require either stealth or purpose to fulfill necessary, albeit not glorious and dishonorable, internal tasks, assignments and missions.

Whoever said they had to be a unit? It's entirely plausible FW/GW throws a curveball and includes them as a HQ character with fluffy rules to match in a future supplement like the one that just got released.

At the risk of cross-pollinating with other design space too much, muse about Ofanim being a HQ choice of 1-3 Consul style models, kinda sorta like DA Firewing. Issue is that they would basically be Firewing since the “secret police” fluff of the Ofanim would basically make them on the TT pretty similar to what Firewing already are.

[Cris R]

  On 10/11/2021 at 6:58 PM, Indefragable said:

 

  On 10/4/2021 at 7:32 PM, Cris R said:

 

  On 10/4/2021 at 6:57 PM, Spagunk said:

 

Ofanim never stuck me as a unit type in my opinion. My head cannon always painted them more of "units not normally attributed to line members" I.E. seekers, vigilators, recon marines etc. Things that require either stealth or purpose to fulfill necessary, albeit not glorious and dishonorable, internal tasks, assignments and missions.

Whoever said they had to be a unit? It's entirely plausible FW/GW throws a curveball and includes them as a HQ character with fluffy rules to match in a future supplement like the one that just got released.

At the risk of cross-pollinating with other design space too much, muse about Ofanim being a HQ choice of 1-3 Consul style models, kinda sorta like DA Firewing. Issue is that they would basically be Firewing since the “secret police” fluff of the Ofanim would basically make them on the TT pretty similar to what Firewing already are.

That’s definitely a possibility, especially when the Space Wolves maintained similar consuls before Russ’ return, which appears in this piece: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/04/warhammer-40k-meet-the-space-marines-cops.html. The other option is that you can run one to three like apothecaries in the elite slot, so there’s a lot to work with when it comes to this concept. Edited October 11, 2021 by Cris R

[Doghouse]

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:19 PM, No Foes Remain said:

SNIP

 

Having read the article I have a feeling the lost "Imperial" pattern is this guy based on the description and a nod to the original lead marines.

 

 

Edit: Just realised it is the missing mark and it's even called the Imperial Space Marine on the box. Nice throw back for us oldies. :tu:

Edited October 11, 2021 by Doghouse

[Marshal Loss]

Thanks for posting that, NFR.

 

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:19 PM, No Foes Remain said:

 

 

Last paragraph mentions that Mark VI would end up being associated with the Emperor’s Children and that “have been observed to field troops who are evidently the descendents of the dread Kacophoni. […] appear to favour a heavily debased and corrupted variant of Corvus armor[…].”

Well hello there

[jaxom]

  On 10/12/2021 at 12:49 AM, Marshal Loss said:

Thanks for posting that, NFR.

 

  On 10/11/2021 at 2:19 PM, No Foes Remain said:

 

 

 

Last paragraph mentions that Mark VI would end up being associated with the Emperor’s Children and that “have been observed to field troops who are evidently the descendents of the dread Kacophoni. […] appear to favour a heavily debased and corrupted variant of Corvus armor[…].”

Well hello there

Hmm, this may be supporting my idea that new Chaos kits are being designed simultaneously with Mk5 and Mk6 kits.

[No Foes Remain]

Not a problem everyone, happy to share the lore.

 

@Doghouse: I totally forgot about that and now that you mention it that is probably what they mean by 'The Lost Mark'.

 

@Loss: Yeah, I found that bit interesting as well as that seemed to really come out of no-where like with the World Eaters using Mk5 late-war and post-war. Could be a teaser for future releases.

 

The other interesting bit was the bit saying by the closing of the war that Mk6 was the most common armour mark for both sides, which could be the change based on the leaked images we saw and the fact that the Umbra bolter was brought out at the same time as that (funny that they released it in resin a while back for it to only come out in plastic 'Soon^tm').

[jaxom]

  On 10/12/2021 at 8:01 AM, No Foes Remain said:

The other interesting bit was the bit saying by the closing of the war that Mk6 was the most common armour mark for both sides,

Wasn’t mk6 what was worn in the original Space Marine 6 mm game?

[Gorgoff]

  On 10/12/2021 at 8:01 AM, No Foes Remain said:

 

 

 

 

The other interesting bit was the bit saying by the closing of the war that Mk6 was the most common armour mark for both sides, which could be the change based on the leaked images we saw and the fact that the Umbra bolter was brought out at the same time as that (funny that they released it in resin a while back for it to only come out in plastic 'Soon^tm').

That striked me as odd as well.

I always thought, that MK6 was not very popular and exclusive to RG, AL and such legions.

Interesting.

[Doghouse]

Mk 6 was used in the original epic game and the original Heresy artwork in the rulebook was mk6 as well despite the cover showing Mk7 marines. I think the actually armour marks lore came into play not long after but at the time it was pretty much scaled down versions of existing Land Raiders, Rhinos and Marines with metal Dreadnoughts. The first Primarch model, Leman Russ, was in Mk 6 as well.

 

I could be wrong but I seem to recall that although the history of the conflict in the book was the Heresy the idea was that you would be fighting battles in the Scouring, so the setting was after the defeat of Horus and played out in real time as opposed to the historical nature of fighting historical battles that is the current setting of the Heresy. Adeptus Titanicus was set in the Heresy though.

[Doghouse]

  On 10/12/2021 at 11:38 AM, Gorgoff said:

 

  On 10/12/2021 at 8:01 AM, No Foes Remain said:

 

 

 

 

The other interesting bit was the bit saying by the closing of the war that Mk6 was the most common armour mark for both sides, which could be the change based on the leaked images we saw and the fact that the Umbra bolter was brought out at the same time as that (funny that they released it in resin a while back for it to only come out in plastic 'Soon^tm').

That striked me as odd as well.

I always thought, that MK6 was not very popular and exclusive to RG, AL and such legions.

Interesting.

 

 

My first instinct regarding that would be that Mk 6 is going to be the new plastic kit everyone wants so they won't want to limit it's use during the Heresy and so are retconning that to make it wider spread. I think this will be the model we see popping up most in new player armies and is mostly another nostalgic nod to the past. I personally think they should have gone with Mk II but I guess Corvus is more mainstream.