State of the Union (Heresy)

[No Foes Remain]

Some more fun from the quiz. Omega for you, Omega for you, Omega for everyone.

 

 

Wouldn't be GW without something labled wrong.

 

Edit: Also the new 3d art is nice and all but I do prefer the digital art over it.

Edited March 25, 2022 by No Foes Remain

[The Scorpion]

I did a bit of editing to see if a head swap and different backpack would help the Praetor and I think that's a yes

Yo, this looks much better than I expected. I imagined that only the Scars and the Wolves would look good on this mini.

[Dark Legionnare]

I just want to make sure everyone reads over Horus' rules and quadruple read the "Master of War" rule.

On first pass of the pics last night I was originally gutted about the "No more auto-outflank" and then re-read that a couple times.

 

Not knowing what most of the reactions are, just that ability in a vacuum, that still already seemed veeeeeeeery powerful.  Seemingly, it doesn't allow you to spam death dealers, I assume from the wording. But still, seems pretty "whoa."

Edited March 25, 2022 by Dark Legionnare

[Elzender]

A consideration for the big starter set price is that the MkVI squads are possibly full multipart sets like previous big plastic HH boxes, in comparison to push-fit/fixed loadout models for the 40K and AoS starters. Still, I will hope the price turns out a tad cheaper, or that smaller sets come out to not have to drop so much money at once.

[Asbestress]

Yeah, I don't think that's legit.

We already pretty much know from the leaks that the "Codex-like book with all 18 Legions" doesn't exist, and we have the leaked first page of the Loyalist Legions book, thus I think we can conclude that there will be a separate Traitor Legions book.

 

While I wouldn't be that surpised if the box is 240£, I honestly can't see them doing that. It would be a massive price jump from basically every previous starter, launch, and other box set. Even that Necromunda Dark Uprising box was cheaper, which, as far as I know, was the most expensive one they have made so far alongside AT Grandmaster Edition, and even those were "only" 175£.

[Valkyrion]

They were only £175 3 years ago.  The world has changed massively since then and the cost of things has skyrocketed. 

Given the attraction of space marines, the NYT Best Selling novel series, proper plastic contemptor and spartan, and that this is already a niche part of a niche hobby, £240 is not only realistic but it's fair and I'd be surprised if sales are negatively affected by such a price tag

 

I understand and appreciate all the points being made, and I'd have tried to price it at £195 so it sits under the £200 bracket, but things being manufactured for sale in 2022 is massively different than things being manufactured for sale in 2018, 2019 and even 2020. 

 

40k 10th edition Indomitus isn't going to be £125 like last time. It'll be £175 and that will be fair too. 

[Noserenda]

I dislike the starter boxes going so big honestly and ive never bought one, even when GM Editions of AT got steeeeply marked down for a while as they werent moving. If people want loads and loads of stuff they can always buy two boxes but i cant conjure £200 out of nowhere for a jolly unfortunately, especially as im not too bothered about starting a new army until i see how the edition actually pans out. Its sitting at "might play but not investing" right now. Though i do have the luxury of multiple armies all ready to go! 

Heh, just realised ive only ever sold the Loyalist armies over the years, even though the Blood Angel army fixed most of the problems i had playing my Iron Warriors, idiot :D 

[Brofist]

Some salty leaks from 4chan and postimages. 

 

Removed as worried about board rules - but kept links.

Can confirm these as being legitimate

[Slips]

 

I just want to make sure everyone reads over Horus' rules and quadruple read the "Master of War" rule.

On first pass of the pics last night I was originally gutted about the "No more auto-outflank" and then re-read that a couple times.

 

Not knowing what most of the reactions are, just that ability in a vacuum, that still already seemed veeeeeeeery powerful.  Seemingly, it doesn't allow you to spam death dealers, I assume from the wording. But still, seems pretty "whoa."

 

It means if you can leverage it JUST right, you can functionally get an extra turn during your opponents turn.

[Chaeron]

The praetor though. Not my cup of tea.

 

I'd tried to place the miniature and I'd seen someone else make the comparison with the 40k Death Guard Lord figure, and I can definitely see that. I think there's the possibility of seeing the 'progression' over time with a model like that, which is interesting to me.

 

It's also cool to see people imagining him in different livery: I'll look forward to people repurposing him for their respective legions! 

[SkimaskMohawk]

So heres the thing going through the leaks of the traitor legions.

 

The exemplary battle stuff isn't there. Anyone who spent money to make new units and was excited just got screwed. That's a scummy business practice.

 

Edit: I'm also getting more and more apprehensive about reactions. They're really looking like stratagems, and every warlord trait and primarch lets you bust them open. Even omni scopes for tyrants allow free intercept. Thankfully, they look easy enough to cut out if needed.

Edited March 25, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[Marshal Loss]

So heres the thing going through the leaks of the traitor legions.

 

The exemplary battle stuff isn't there.

& various units without models e.g. Iron Havocs. Some surprise inclusions, e.g. Lucius for the EC

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

So heres the thing going through the leaks of the traitor legions.

 

The exemplary battle stuff isn't there.

& various units without models e.g. Iron Havocs. Some surprise inclusions, e.g. Lucius for the EC

That's really not good if it's the case. Hopefully it's the thought of "only include rules for stuff everyone can buy in the test package".

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'd think the exemplary battle units were crafted after these were penned, as they're likely written as a stopgap for a delay. It would certainly be reasonable for them to publish updated datasheets.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd think the exemplary battle units were crafted after these were penned, as they're likely written as a stopgap for a delay. It would certainly be reasonable for them to publish updated datasheets.

I really hope they get updated. Pumping them out to try and create sales only to dump them a couple months later is terrible.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

I'd think the exemplary battle units were crafted after these were penned, as they're likely written as a stopgap for a delay. It would certainly be reasonable for them to publish updated datasheets.

I really hope they get updated. Pumping them out to try and create sales only to dump them a couple months later is terrible.

 

Yeah, I hope so too. It'd be odd not to, many people won't even have sourced and painted the kit before this stuff comes out.

 

At the very least in some cases (DA, for instance), you can always run it as a base Knights Cenobium squad.

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

I just want to make sure everyone reads over Horus' rules and quadruple read the "Master of War" rule.

 

On first pass of the pics last night I was originally gutted about the "No more auto-outflank" and then re-read that a couple times.

Not knowing what most of the reactions are, just that ability in a vacuum, that still already seemed veeeeeeeery powerful.  Seemingly, it doesn't allow you to spam death dealers, I assume from the wording. But still, seems pretty "whoa."

It means if you can leverage it JUST right, you can functionally get an extra turn during your opponents turn.

Basically the same takeaway I got too, and I don't even have an idea about reactions breadth for generics.

[Slips]

 

 

 

I just want to make sure everyone reads over Horus' rules and quadruple read the "Master of War" rule.

On first pass of the pics last night I was originally gutted about the "No more auto-outflank" and then re-read that a couple times.

Not knowing what most of the reactions are, just that ability in a vacuum, that still already seemed veeeeeeeery powerful.  Seemingly, it doesn't allow you to spam death dealers, I assume from the wording. But still, seems pretty "whoa."

It means if you can leverage it JUST right, you can functionally get an extra turn during your opponents turn.

Basically the same takeaway I got too, and I don't even have an idea about reactions breadth for generics.

 

The way its understood is, baseline, everyone gets 1 reaction per phase for their whole army (so one unit, per phase can make a reaction).

 

You then have WLTs that give you another one to use in a specific phase (Movement, shooting, assault).

 

That is the expected baseline before any character effects, RoWs or Legiones Astartes.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Slips

[Brofist]

Full disclosure, I don't play 40k and I only ever experienced stratagems in 6/7th edition before I quit.

 

Reactions aren't stratagems- there's an economy built around them for units and armies. Primarchs and warlord traits unlocking more reactions in certain situations adds theme and flavor to how different armies play. The general theme with all of them is that you can do something during your opponents turn so you're not just standing there removing models from the table drinking a beer. I can understand why you might want to just keep drinking beer, but this seems to be a middle ground between turn based and phase-based games (so 30k in the current edition vs say titanicus). Its totally possible they might break it with time, that's a valid point, but from what we've seen leaked its pretty reserved and fitting within an economy. The rules are pretty tight and are closer to what you'd get from say, AT. Reactions are a core mechanic of 2.0 and not something layered ontop.

 

Some special abilities have become reactions, such as interceptor. I think we can debate either way- on one had its a hamfisted way of just doing 'old interceptor', but on the other hand you've got an economy ontop that adds some strategic depth to your play. It's a reaction because you do it during your opponent's turn. Do you want to intercept in the movement phase, or do you wanna do something else? Meaningful choices are a good thing in game design.

[Fallen11]

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

More leaks...
seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

[Slips]

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

 

More leaks...

seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

Between the AL stealing an LA, a warlord trait that lets them steal another they arent the worst since Banestrike is S5 now also, Headhunters are 25 each, 50 each are the Learneans and thats because they, too, can steal another LA for a total of 3 if you stack it just right (In addition to LA:AL)

[Fallen11]

 

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

 

More leaks...

seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

Between the AL stealing an LA, a warlord trait that lets them steal another they arent the worst since Banestrike is S5 now also, Headhunters are 25 each, 50 each are the Learneans and thats because they, too, can steal another LA for a total of 3 if you stack it just right (In addition to LA:AL)

 

Kinda sad about infiltrate gone from what I can see? It was what defined AL for me from 3rd edition, one of the main reasons I always loved them.

[Dark Legionnare]

Full disclosure, I don't play 40k and I only ever experienced stratagems in 6/7th edition before I quit.

 

Reactions aren't stratagems- there's an economy built around them for units and armies. Primarchs and warlord traits unlocking more reactions in certain situations adds theme and flavor to how different armies play. The general theme with all of them is that you can do something during your opponents turn so you're not just standing there removing models from the table drinking a beer. I can understand why you might want to just keep drinking beer, but this seems to be a middle ground between turn based and phase-based games (so 30k in the current edition vs say titanicus). Its totally possible they might break it with time, that's a valid point, but from what we've seen leaked its pretty reserved and fitting within an economy. The rules are pretty tight and are closer to what you'd get from say, AT. Reactions are a core mechanic of 2.0 and not something layered ontop.

 

Some special abilities have become reactions, such as interceptor. I think we can debate either way- on one had its a hamfisted way of just doing 'old interceptor', but on the other hand you've got an economy ontop that adds some strategic depth to your play. It's a reaction because you do it during your opponent's turn. Do you want to intercept in the movement phase, or do you wanna do something else? Meaningful choices are a good thing in game design.

That's the gist I got, yeah. When I say "Don't know" I mean the literal reactions themselves, what they all are. IE, hoping none are very powerful. Like, no "real good" ones from a RoW or such, that would make me feel bad about taking big daddy H in a 3500 game or such

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

More leaks...

seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

 

Between the AL stealing an LA, a warlord trait that lets them steal another they arent the worst since Banestrike is S5 now also, Headhunters are 25 each, 50 each are the Learneans and thats because they, too, can steal another LA for a total of 3 if you stack it just right (In addition to LA:AL)

I noticed that about banestrikes for the 16th as well, as well as them being able to go on vets. I like the idea of my rhino vets rushing up to unleash hails of "pocket heavy bolters". Makes them feel like "seekers light" which I still need to make some of...

[Slips]

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

 

More leaks...

seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

Between the AL stealing an LA, a warlord trait that lets them steal another they arent the worst since Banestrike is S5 now also, Headhunters are 25 each, 50 each are the Learneans and thats because they, too, can steal another LA for a total of 3 if you stack it just right (In addition to LA:AL)

 

Kinda sad about infiltrate gone from what I can see? It was what defined AL for me from 3rd edition, one of the main reasons I always loved them.

 

I dont think we've seen the LA:RG yet so worst case just steal that lmao.

[Fallen11]

 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

 

More leaks...

seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

Between the AL stealing an LA, a warlord trait that lets them steal another they arent the worst since Banestrike is S5 now also, Headhunters are 25 each, 50 each are the Learneans and thats because they, too, can steal another LA for a total of 3 if you stack it just right (In addition to LA:AL)

 

Kinda sad about infiltrate gone from what I can see? It was what defined AL for me from 3rd edition, one of the main reasons I always loved them.

 

I dont think we've seen the LA:RG yet so worst case just steal that lmao.

 

Actually, I was reading that part about rewards of trachery https://i.imgur.com/unuKGPv.png , and couldn't understand what they are trying to say?

This thing you speak about stealing RG, you mean like their trait for some units or ? Because as I said, I am not exactly understanding rules from what is written.