State of the Union (Heresy)

[Slips]

 

 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

 

More leaks...

seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

Between the AL stealing an LA, a warlord trait that lets them steal another they arent the worst since Banestrike is S5 now also, Headhunters are 25 each, 50 each are the Learneans and thats because they, too, can steal another LA for a total of 3 if you stack it just right (In addition to LA:AL)

 

Kinda sad about infiltrate gone from what I can see? It was what defined AL for me from 3rd edition, one of the main reasons I always loved them.

 

I dont think we've seen the LA:RG yet so worst case just steal that lmao.

 

Actually, I was reading that part about rewards of trachery https://i.imgur.com/unuKGPv.png , and couldn't understand what they are trying to say?

This thing you speak about stealing RG, you mean like their trait for some units or ? Because as I said, I am not exactly understanding rules from what is written.

 

From what I know LA:AL basically lets you steal another legions' Legiones Astartes rule; this might be different than the older, Phase 1, document thats currently being passed around.

 

Meaning if, I understood right, RG have infiltrate as part of the Legiones Astartes rules, then you can just yoink that as Alpha Legion and just have people infiltrate.

[Mogsam]

Agreed that reactions are worrying. The return fire sounds amazing and it's starting to feel like a "gotcha" system where your opponent can't just counter whatever you are doing as they've got some rule.

 

2W special units are also a concern. Why bother taking a tactical squad when all your special dudes being unlocked by row are so good? It could make some really, really boring metas.

[Cadmus Tyro]

 

 

 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/KHnbjdX?fbclid=IwAR0LRhTTz9NcWNp28bWKEGGzMbq0UbMZPxnG1XGUiCusTCvimCPrh328QdE

More leaks...

seems headhunters are still not worth it, laerns seem interesting, though power fist for 15pts, dunno what they are smoking on already 50pts model.

 

Between the AL stealing an LA, a warlord trait that lets them steal another they arent the worst since Banestrike is S5 now also, Headhunters are 25 each, 50 each are the Learneans and thats because they, too, can steal another LA for a total of 3 if you stack it just right (In addition to LA:AL)

Kinda sad about infiltrate gone from what I can see? It was what defined AL for me from 3rd edition, one of the main reasons I always loved them.

I dont think we've seen the LA:RG yet so worst case just steal that lmao.

Actually, I was reading that part about rewards of trachery https://i.imgur.com/unuKGPv.png , and couldn't understand what they are trying to say?

This thing you speak about stealing RG, you mean like their trait for some units or ? Because as I said, I am not exactly understanding rules from what is written.

From what I know LA:AL basically lets you steal another legions' Legiones Astartes rule; this might be different than the older, Phase 1, document thats currently being passed around.

 

Meaning if, I understood right, RG have infiltrate as part of the Legiones Astartes rules, then you can just yoink that as Alpha Legion and just have people infiltrate.

Not sure where you are reading that rule? If you’re referring to the rewards of treachery it goes to great lengths to explain how you can steal up to three units from an alternative legion, replacing their LA rule with LA:AL. There’s a warlord trait that allows you to steal LA but only for the warlord and his unit. Perhaps I’m missing something?

 

Alpharius and Dynat both have the option to infiltrate three units as part of their warlord trait/rules. So there’s options there.

 

I think the AL changes are good, limiting the reaction of an opponent is going to be a powerful option. But they’ve managed to make coils of the hydra essentially useless (at least compared to what it was) and headhunter leviathanal is still pretty poor outside of ZM, but at least you don’t automatically lose by not killing your opponents HQ (great fun when it’s a custodes shield captain ;) ). Perhaps we will see a toning down of RoW in general? Maybe infiltrate will be less widely available. Hard to judge it until we have all the rules available.

 

Cadmus

[Fallen11]

Yea, both ROW's are very underwhelming. Exodus is half decent, though seems he can't snipe characters? Weird, but seems he might be best used as AV hunter,lol, come from behind veichle, pop 2 S7 AP2 sunder shots in rear armor, and there is melta bomb too...weird

[The Scorpion]

Yea, both ROW's are very underwhelming. Exodus is half decent, though seems he can't snipe characters? Weird, but seems he might be best used as AV hunter,lol, come from behind veichle, pop 2 S7 AP2 sunder shots in rear armor, and there is melta bomb too...weird

Agree, but the Alpha Legion rules are quite strong. Especially with triple Rewards of Treachery, and having access to all the reactions.

 

Headhunter RoW has been buffed, but Coild of the Hydra has been nerfed to work wholly around stolen units, if leaks are to be believed.

[Excessus]

IF the phase 1 document is a correct leak, there is probably many changes that has been done after that. I mean Exodus missing precision shots is one thing as an example and there are a few things in the more intricate rules that needs clarification.

 

...but Laernean terminators looks decent for the first time! :)

[Darkwrath121]

IF the phase 1 document is a correct leak, there is probably many changes that has been done after that. I mean Exodus missing precision shots is one thing as an example and there are a few things in the more intricate rules that needs clarification.

 

...but Laernean terminators looks decent for the first time! :)

The Instrument has sniper, which based on the earlier rulebook(?) leak, now just lets you choose which model you hit.

[Excessus]

 

IF the phase 1 document is a correct leak, there is probably many changes that has been done after that. I mean Exodus missing precision shots is one thing as an example and there are a few things in the more intricate rules that needs clarification.

 

...but Laernean terminators looks decent for the first time!

The Instrument has sniper, which based on the earlier rulebook(?) leak, now just lets you choose which model you hit.

 

Oh really, I must have missed that leak.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Full disclosure, I don't play 40k and I only ever experienced stratagems in 6/7th edition before I quit.

 

Reactions aren't stratagems- there's an economy built around them for units and armies. Primarchs and warlord traits unlocking more reactions in certain situations adds theme and flavor to how different armies play. The general theme with all of them is that you can do something during your opponents turn so you're not just standing there removing models from the table drinking a beer. I can understand why you might want to just keep drinking beer, but this seems to be a middle ground between turn based and phase-based games (so 30k in the current edition vs say titanicus). Its totally possible they might break it with time, that's a valid point, but from what we've seen leaked its pretty reserved and fitting within an economy. The rules are pretty tight and are closer to what you'd get from say, AT. Reactions are a core mechanic of 2.0 and not something layered ontop.

 

Some special abilities have become reactions, such as interceptor. I think we can debate either way- on one had its a hamfisted way of just doing 'old interceptor', but on the other hand you've got an economy ontop that adds some strategic depth to your play. It's a reaction because you do it during your opponent's turn. Do you want to intercept in the movement phase, or do you wanna do something else? Meaningful choices are a good thing in game design.

Well, the initial introduction of stratagems in 8th came with its own little economy you could build up. It turned out, the more you invested into the CP economy and built your output around the stratagems, better you could do.

 

Now, reactions don't seem to have the combo potential of stratagems. But they do very much keep the feel of spoilery jank that differs for each legion. Reactively moving, counter shooting, getting extra stealthy, counter charging and full bs Overwatch can make for a very decisive and cool moment. But we're getting getting multiple moments a turn, 5 turns a game.

 

Horus' ability is a great example of turning a thematic and cool moment into a frustration point. Your turn is going to get interrupted 3 times a phase to explicitly counter you.

[Fallen11]

 

Yea, both ROW's are very underwhelming. Exodus is half decent, though seems he can't snipe characters? Weird, but seems he might be best used as AV hunter,lol, come from behind veichle, pop 2 S7 AP2 sunder shots in rear armor, and there is melta bomb too...weird

Agree, but the Alpha Legion rules are quite strong. Especially with triple Rewards of Treachery, and having access to all the reactions.

 

Headhunter RoW has been buffed, but Coild of the Hydra has been nerfed to work wholly around stolen units, if leaks are to be believed.

 

Yea, triple reward is rly nice, but you only get to use that chosen reaction once per game, and you get to ignore first reaction in each phase which is nice. On the other hand, SOH basically become immune to any ID in CC unless enemy is S9 and above which can be huge, and suddenly S4 is wounding you on 5+ and s5 on 4+.

Well, I shall wait and see, seems interesting so far :)

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

Yea, both ROW's are very underwhelming. Exodus is half decent, though seems he can't snipe characters? Weird, but seems he might be best used as AV hunter,lol, come from behind veichle, pop 2 S7 AP2 sunder shots in rear armor, and there is melta bomb too...weird

 

Agree, but the Alpha Legion rules are quite strong. Especially with triple Rewards of Treachery, and having access to all the reactions.

Headhunter RoW has been buffed, but Coild of the Hydra has been nerfed to work wholly around stolen units, if leaks are to be believed.

Yea, triple reward is rly nice, but you only get to use that chosen reaction once per game, and you get to ignore first reaction in each phase which is nice. On the other hand, SOH basically become immune to any ID in CC unless enemy is S9 and above which can be huge, and suddenly S4 is wounding you on 5+ and s5 on 4+.

Well, I shall wait and see, seems interesting so far :)

Oh man. I didn't put that together at first when reading. Justaerin and Reavers (apparently 2W now, which I don't like...) no longer really giving a damn about enemy chainfists/powerfists...

 

Hopefully line terminators don't have 2W too... or ugg, my usual Spearhead type list will be grossly unfun for opponents in melee. I smell "on the receiving end of more pie-plates" in the Lunas' future if so...

Edited March 26, 2022 by Dark Legionnare

[SkimaskMohawk]

A lot of the elite melee units are brutal and require a really dedicated counter to deal with in melee.

 

So definitely expect to see more heavy fire power to stop them from making it. Especially with plasma getting toned down.

Edited March 26, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[Noserenda]

Makes sense on one level, make basic troops plastic, give serious buff to resin units :/ 

[derLumpi]

So, with some distance to the reveal I started building Roboute and a squad of Destroyers. I'm not at the hype level I was when the pictures were leaked but I hope I'm getting there.

What about the rest of you?

 

Started saving again after I spent the dedicated heresy funds for something else. 

[Cadmus Tyro]

Just noticed head hunters have the relentless usr, that’s a game changer for them.......banestrike, plasma, assault!

 

Cadmus

[jaxom]

Agreed that reactions are worrying. The return fire sounds amazing and it's starting to feel like a "gotcha" system where your opponent can't just counter whatever you are doing as they've got some rule.

 

I decided to do a massive trawl and gather all the Reaction info I could because it seems that there's a large amount of misinformation or assumptions being made. 

 

TL;DR: Reactions are a very limited resource and the trick will be baiting them out or avoiding situations which trigger them. EDIT #2: The vast majority of armies will have two Reactions available in one phase and one Reaction available in the other two phases. 

 

Full Version

• Players have a Reaction Allotment of 1 in each enemy Phase.

   

• There are two core Reactions available for each Phase.

• Movement Reactions require an enemy unit within 12" and either move the unit directly towards or away by up to Initiative in inches (or 90 degree pivot and 6" for Vehicles).

   

• Shoot Reactions occur after Armor Saves, but before Damage Mitigation (e.g. Feel No Pain) and it's either shoot back (requires line of sight, count as stationary, Defensive only for Vehicles, and Template weapons only within 8" and have to use Wall of Death) or take cover (requires being able to move (Move greater than 0, not Immobilised if a vehicle), gain Shrouded (5+) ).

   

• Assault Reactions occur after resolving all Charge Rolls, but before moving models. Overwatch (pretty much the same as the Shooting Reaction, except the targets can't take Cover Saves) or make the Charge disordered (requires a successful Morale check and will work against all enemy units charging them if the triggering unit failed the Charge Roll).

• Special rules can change the number of Reactions per Phase, but the core rule is: you can't have more than three Reactions in an enemy Phase (and this is actually hard to pull off based on other leaks).

   

• A running theme in any Shooting Reactions which allow a unit to attack a triggering unit is that the triggering unit will get to have all of the models models the unit, at the time of the trigger, shoot even if the trigger is before the triggering unit gets to shoot and produces the triggering unit takes casualties.

   

• The vast majority of additional Reaction Allotment come from Warlord Traits.

   

• Each Legion's generic WLTs end with, "In addition, an army whose Warlord has this Trait may make an additional Reaction during the [X] phase as long has the Warlord has not been removed as a casualty." X is either Movement, Shooting, or Assault. Some are gated behind allegiance and special WLTs can break the tend (EC Shooting WLT is Traitor only, but Saul Tarvitz's unique WLT is Shooting; EC Assault is Loyalist only, but Lucius's unique WLT can be Assault). 

   

• Exceptions exist. Death Guard have two Assault WLT, Alpha Legion have three WLTs and one makes the WL and his unit immune to Reactions against Moves, Shooting Attacks, and Charges (and there are Reactions which trigger against other things) while another is a Shooting WLT, the third gets a whole section to itself later.

   

• Named characters have unique WLT, but most follow the generic format for an additional Reaction during a specific phase, including most Primarchs.

   

• Angron's WLT increases the Reaction Allotment in the enemy Movement phase to 3, but that's the maximum regardless of other special rules. This reinforces the core rule: 3 Reactions per phase unless special rules say otherwise, this special rule overrides any such special rules so it's still 3 Reaction, max, in the Movement phase. The Reactions all have to be the Advance Reaction, so while it increases the resource bonus by an additional one compared to to most other WLTs it limits what they can be used for.

   

• Fulgrim's WLT makes his (and any unit he joins) first Reaction each turn not use a point of Reaction Allotment, but does not otherwise increase Resource Allotment. This effectively works out to be almost the same resource bonus as most other WLTs, but more flexible, and it is limits to who can use it. The other thing to note is the language. Any possible rules reducing Reaction Allotment won't affect Fulgrim's WLT. For another possibility see end note.

   

• Fulgrim and his unit immune to Reactions against Moves, Shooting Attacks, and Charges (and there are Reactions which trigger against other things).

   

• Lucius has a similar WLT, but it's worded as an additional Reaction for him (and any unit he joins) in one Phase and it doesn't use a point of Reaction Allotment. See end note.

   

• Ahriman and Erebus both have unique WLTs which give an additional Reaction in any one enemy Phase.

   

• Loken doesn't have a unique WLT (he get's the SoH Loyalist only WLT) and his only special rule is the non-Reaction portion of the neutral SoH WLT.... Personally, I really hope this changes or there's a separate data sheet for Cerberus.

   

• EDIT #3, I can't believe I forgot Horus. Horus's WLT does not give a Reaction bonus, but he has Master of War instead. Once per game at the start of the enemy's turn, you can activate this ability and every friendly LA(SoH) unit can make a single Reaction in each phase of the turn. Reaction Allotment is effectively ignored; you have enough Resource Allotment to make one reaction with each unit in each phase.

   

• The unique Legion-specific Reactions can only be used once per game.

   

• The unique Legion-specific Reactions are advanced Reactions and may have different triggering conditions than core Reactions.

   

• The unique Legion-specific Reactions (LSR) tend to be either more flexible versions or powerful versions of the core reactions, but don't change tactical/strategic considerations (for example, Thousand Sons have a better version of Evade, SoH have a better version of Return Fire). Exceptions exist.

   

• Night Lords LSR: A unit can immediately Fall Back and Regroup when declared the target of a Charge, before the Charge is resolved. The triggering unit can redirect their Charge if the unit ends more than 12" from them, otherwise must resolve the Charge against the unit.

   

• Death Guard LSR: Similar to Evade (except it's Feel No Pain instead of Shroud), but the unit can also move up to 6" after the attacks are resolved.

   

• Word Bearers LSR: Similar to Evade, except it trades one confirmed casualty end end all the non-Template, non-Blast, non-Destroyer, non-Ordnance shooting attacks before they are made (Bobal Tal jumps in front of the incoming fire for his brothers... or Kor Jimron pushes him out in front).

   

• Alpha Legion and Thousand Sons have some extra rules which interact with Reactions.

   

• Alpha Legion Legiones Astartes: The first Move, Shooting Attack, and Charge declared each Phase cannot be used by the enemy to trigger a Reaction.

   

• Alpha Legion LSR: Pick an LSR from any Legion except Dark Angels and Thousand Sons, you can use that LSR as if you were that Legion.

   

• Alpha Legion WLT, The Moebius Configuration is going to get multiple bullet points because there's a lot going on.

   

• Alpha Legion WLT, The Moebius Configuration (1): Requires an Allied Detachment with Legiones Astartes special rule, and the Allied Detachment is treated as Fellow Warriors regardless of normal level of Alliance.

   

• Alpha Legion WLT, The Moebius Configuration (2): Units in the Allied Detachment do not grant the enemy VP when removed as casualties regardless of Mission Objectives. However, if all units in the Allied Detachment are removed as casualties, then you gain 1 VP.

   

• Alpha Legion WLT, The Moebius Configuration (3): Units in the Allied Detachment may not use Reactions of any kind.

   

• Alpha Legion WLT, The Moebius Configuration (4): The first unit in the Primary Detachment to use a Reaction each turn does not use Reaction Allocation when making that reaction.

   

• Alpha Legion WLT, The Moebius Configuration (5): TL; DR regarding Reactions: a chunk of your army can't use Reactions and the first Reaction you make each turn costs no Reaction Allocation.

   

• Thousand Sons RoW, Axis of Dissolution (1): Units have to be maximum size, with more infantry than other unit types.

   

• Thousand Sons RoW, Axis of Dissolution (2): Once per turn make a Psychic check to turn off an enemy's Reaction. The

  Reaction allotment is not lost, but that enemy unit can't make any more Reactions that phase. Failed Psychic test means Perils of the Warp.

   

• Thousand Sons RoW, Axis of Dissolution (3): You may make a Psychic check when performing a Sweeping Advance during "a Move as part of any Reaction," to roll an additional die and discard the lowest. Failure means the Sweeping Advance is treated as rolling a 1 and Perils of the Warp. See end note.

End note: The leaked Test Phase 3 rules don't perfectly match the wording for the Unit leaks, which seem to be an earlier Test Phase based on formatting (basically increasing Reaction Allotment compared to additional Reaction in a Phase). Some characters have similar, but different effects and it's hard to tell if it is on purpose (like Lucian having a better version than Fulgrim) or due to them being earlier versions of rules with some units written with firmer language than others. Some rules don't make sense; like Axis of Dissolution. There are no Sweeping Advances as part of Reactions, but I could understand it if the Advance and Withdraw core Reactions originally used Sweeping Advance instead of just base Initiative. There's not enough of a discrepancy to discount the leaks as is. Most likely the language was firmed up between the two to avoid confusion or there's some examples to clarify it that were not included in the leaks.

 

EDIT: Fixed some text size issues.

Edited March 26, 2022 by jaxom

[Hfran Morkai]

So, with some distance to the reveal I started building Roboute and a squad of Destroyers. I'm not at the hype level I was when the pictures were leaked but I hope I'm getting there.

What about the rest of you?

 

Started saving again after I spent the dedicated heresy funds for something else.

I'm refusing to do much with anything until I have the new book(s).

 

Which is hilarious as I've got about 40 power armoured troops assembled with no paint.

 

I may however look at painting up my Dreadclaw, Drop Pods and my Caestus (apparently no one has seen anything for the Ram yet which will be a shame if it's gone).

 

Also really hoping my Thunderhawk Transporter proxy turns up shortly, but again maybe that doesn't exist.

[Balthamal]

If the Alpha Legion bits and pieces are accurate, Rewards of Treachery is unbelievable now. 3 signature units from up to 3 different legions? Regardless of any other buffs for mutable tactics etc that completely redraws the baseline on their adaptability. 

[Excessus]

If the Alpha Legion bits and pieces are accurate, Rewards of Treachery is unbelievable now. 3 signature units from up to 3 different legions? Regardless of any other buffs for mutable tactics etc that completely redraws the baseline on their adaptability. 

Yeah, I've been reading it several times and I can't really get a definite RaW or RaI from it. I assume it will have been rewritten in newer phases.

[Balthamal]

 

If the Alpha Legion bits and pieces are accurate, Rewards of Treachery is unbelievable now. 3 signature units from up to 3 different legions? Regardless of any other buffs for mutable tactics etc that completely redraws the baseline on their adaptability. 

Yeah, I've been reading it several times and I can't really get a definite RaW or RaI from it. I assume it will have been rewritten in newer phases.

 

 

I'm hoping it's very explicit in it's limitations because reading it as is, RaW it's 3 different units, from up to 3 different legions. Only exceptions being "unique" units. So quite literally everything is fair game including dreadnoughts like the Osirian or Mhara'gal

[SkimaskMohawk]

Just noticed head hunters have the relentless usr, that’s a game changer for them.......banestrike, plasma, assault!

 

Cadmus

Night raptors, contekar and sevatar also have it. Night raptors can get plasma, but sevatar doesn't have anything that would benefit. Relentless is possibly a misnomer for implacable. Or just accidentally added to most things.

[Cadmus Tyro]

 

Just noticed head hunters have the relentless usr, that’s a game changer for them.......banestrike, plasma, assault!

Cadmus

Night raptors, contekar and sevatar also have it. Night raptors can get plasma, but sevatar doesn't have anything that would benefit. Relentless is possibly a misnomer for implacable. Or just accidentally added to most things.

Maybe...I’ll wait and see. Implacable has been changed to “line” so it’s an odd mistake the make, it would also help explain the lack of a suspensor web on the HB.

 

Cadmus

[jaxom]

 

 

If the Alpha Legion bits and pieces are accurate, Rewards of Treachery is unbelievable now. 3 signature units from up to 3 different legions? Regardless of any other buffs for mutable tactics etc that completely redraws the baseline on their adaptability. 

Yeah, I've been reading it several times and I can't really get a definite RaW or RaI from it. I assume it will have been rewritten in newer phases.

 

 

I'm hoping it's very explicit in it's limitations because reading it as is, RaW it's 3 different units, from up to 3 different legions. Only exceptions being "unique" units. So quite literally everything is fair game including dreadnoughts like the Osirian or Mhara'gal

 

 

It is very explicit in it's limitations. Here's the break down (abbreviating certain quotes dealing with Force Org and points):

 

may select up to three variants of the Legiones Astartes special rule and select a single unit for each of those that is only available to Detachments with that variant of the Legiones Astartes special rule.

The unit has have LA(X) and only be available to LA(X) detachments. A Veteran Tactical Squad has LA(X), but is available to all variants of LA so is not eligible. A Phalanx Warder squad has LA(X), where X is IF, and is only available to detachments with LA(IF) so it is eligible. Basically, pick up to three Legions and select a single Legion-specific unit from each. They can be taken in your LA(AL) detachment. There is a kicker (which I'm not going to quote the exact wording): chosen units cannot include models without LA and cannot include any Unique sub-types. So no units with Servitors or other non-LA models and no named models. As far as I know, there are no non-named Legion-specific HQs. Note, this locks out Legion-specific HQ upgrades (like Warsmith or Diablist) because you can't choose Praetor or Consularis as the base unit is available to all variants of LA; i.e. they're upgrades for units you cannot choose.

 

 

If a single variant of Legiones Astartes was chosen... may include up to three choices of the selected unit... however all of the selected units... exchange their [original LA] for the Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) special rule.

You can choose one Legion and its one specific unit and take up to three of them. If I chose just Sons of Horus then I could choose one of their unique units. I may then take up to three squads of that unit. They lose LA(SoH)  and gain LA(AL). There is another kicker: they don't lose the portion of LA(X) which grants them access to their Legion-specific wargear. Let's say I choose Reaver Squads. I can take up to three Reaver Squads, they still have access to Cthonian Power Weapons, but have 'Lies and Obfuscation' instead of 'Merciless Fighters'

 

 

If more than one variant of the Legiones Astartes special rule was chosen... may include only a single choice of each of the selected units

You can choose more than one Legion and choose one Legion-specific unit each, and then take one of them. For example, I can choose LA(IF), LA(SoH), and LA(WB). I then choose one Legion-specific unit (following the stipulations in the first quotation) for each. I choose Phalanx Warders, Reavers, and Mhara Ghal Dreadnought. I may then take up to one squad of each. They have the same kicker as the last quotation; they still have Legion-specific wargear access (Solarite Gauntlet for Phalanx Warder Sergeant, Cthonian Power Weapon for Reavers, etc), but all have 'Lies and Obfuscation' instead of their normal Legion special rule.

 

TL;DR:

Rewards of Treachery:

1. Choose one Legion and one of its Legion-specific units. You can take up to three of them. They retain Legion-specific wargear, but otherwise lose all other aspects of their normal LA and replace them with 'Lies and Obfuscations.'
2. Choose two or three Legions and one Legion-specific unit from each. You can a single squad of each Legion-specific unit chosen. They retain Legion-specific wargear, but otherwise lose all other aspects of their normal LA and replace them with 'Lies and Obfuscations.'
3. To be eligible to be chosen, the unit cannot have the Unique sub-type, cannot include any models with the Legiones Astartes special rule, and cannot be available to any detachments outside of a specific Legion (i.e. they have to be a Legion-specific unit).

[Hirmetrium]

That's a beautiful summary of a very complex rule.

 

I personally think that the new Alpha Legion rules are absolutely ridiculous and insane, and will probably be toned down. They have essentially given up mutable and their own unique reaction to use others legions reactions and units, and at the end of it still get to ignore one reaction a phase with the lies of obfuscation rule which protects them somewhat.

 

The best aspect of the legion in the best rite of war has been opened up for 100% of the time. And all you give up is Infiltrate, which you can probably get back with the Hydran Excursor Warlord trait, or use units that actually infiltrate properly, like recon squads or headhunters; and then, it layers beautifully with Alpharius's new rules which are a lot of the old warlord traits with redeployment shenanigans and giving 3 units of models infiltrate, outflank, etc.

 

To top this off, Exodus is staying and got a buff, Dynat is just as good if not better, Saboteurs are fantastic. Both rites of war got some changes to reflect this, and Coils has lost out a little but has far fewer restrictions. Headhunter is now an extremely viable choice.

 

The only downside is something really screwy has happened to headhunters, who will now be even more overshadowed by other legion units. 150pts and 25pts a model is a real steep cost compared to say, veterans, for a very short range unit with middling combat abilities. Your still fishing for 6's on your bane-strike bolter shots to get lucky with AP2 this time round (which at least isn't AP3, that was god-awful). Oh and the heavy bolter is no longer banestrike.

 

As an aside, Lerneans got Hydran Exemplar and more wounds, but shockingly "It Will Not Die (5+)", which is flat out stupid and I can't see it remaining. The C-beamer dropped to 15 pts as well, although the cost has jumped a bit to pay for these. Given how great some of the Legion rules are, Exemplar stealing them is incredible.

 

That said, narratively you can properly have an alpha legion force try to reflect their foes or background now; this unit of lernean terminators had infiltrated the sons of horus, therefore it fights and acts like them. This commander was in the Thousand sons, and is therefore a pskyer. It's great.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Hirmetrium

[The Scorpion]

I hope Emperor's Children get buffed.

 

The leaks paint a picture of their rules where the writers were still testing the waters and had no idea of what they were doing for the big picture.

 

Legion Rules: +1 initiative but only on the charge, cannot be disordered. Defensive weapons in vehicles react better. Not great. The 3rd should be about precision and speed more than just melee.

 

Reaction: Decent. When charged, you roll for charge as well. Depending on the roll the unit steals the charge or shoots.

 

Basic WT: Garbage. +1WS but only to units within 12" and only after they pass a morale check. When is this ever gonna come up?

 

Traitor WT: Bad. Basically warlord LARPs as a comissar and kills one marine to prevent failing morale.

 

Loyalist WT: Extremely good. All EC in the whole DETACHMENT gain +1WS against traitor astartes. Compare to the ludicrous restrictions of the basic WT.

 

Wargear: Some upgrades are good while others are ultra-situational. 15points is okay I guess. Phoenix weapons are decent and also free.

 

Maru Skara: very good. No longer do you gamble when the reserves arrive,and the movement bonus remains active as long as you hold back the "killing blow", not just the 1st turn.

 

3rd Company Elite: Potentially strong but expensive, since it's based around sonic shriekers/lances and ofc the Kakophoni.

 

 

It's a mixed bag, more on the side of weak. But most of all it's inconsistent, especislly the WT.

Edited March 26, 2022 by The Scorpion