State of the Union (Heresy)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

The size of this (2 characters, 40 mkVI, 10 cataphractii plus the two vehicles as far as I can tell) really does feel closer to the scale of Titanicus' grand master edition than either of the previous heresy box sets we've had, and I do wonder if we'll get a smaller starter set down the line - either way, this launching a core plastic heresy range would really show the scope of the range and provide a more than adequate army-in-a-box.

[bushman101]

Could we expect a mini rule book?

(I dont know if the Prospero box had one or not)

 

Really excited about a potential plastic Spartan

Edited June 13, 2021 by bushman101

[WrathOfTheLion]

And yes, to me the complaint was never that Specialist Games shouldn't get a release, but that AoD should get releases to at least match a specialist game. If Necromunda can get plastic support for each family/gang, then surely HH warrants at least some periodic release at the legion level. It should have the support of a Specialist Game, not that they shouldn't see releases.

[Cris R]

Could we expect a mini rule book?

(I dont know if the Prospero box had one or not)

 

Really excited about a potential plastic Spartan

Prospero and Calth followed the model we saw circa 7th edition 40k where some of the GW plastic lines were released as standalone board games without rulebooks. Calth and Prospero were the 30k board games but GW also released 40k ones like Deathwatch: Overkill, Assassinorum: Execution Force, one game for a two Knights set, and I think one for flyers.

 

That said, the 7th edition 40k two army battle boxes had mini rulebooks that contained all the rules. I still have my copies and they’re super handy for 30k. I’m not sure if we’re going to see that for this release but it’d be a nice touch.

 

FWIW, I would welcome Calth returning as the 30k equivalent of Warhammer: Underworlds. It’s my favorite board game of all time - even above Space Hulk - and the system could scale up nicely for different legions.

[Gorgoff]

Could we expect a mini rule book?

(I dont know if the Prospero box had one or not)

 

Really excited about a potential plastic Spartan

Don't get too exited. We expect new MKVI marines, two characters and at least a new missle launcher for the Contemptor.

[Scammel]

It was perfectly reasonable to believe that Heresy was on the hospital ward and inexorably moving to a state of inactive support. The people who feared this weren't trolls or alarmists. I'm really, really pleased this isn't the case, less so with the sneering.

[Corswain]

Well, I wasn't looking to start another Legion but GW is going to make me apparently. Now the decision is Alpha Legion or not Alpha Legion...

 

It'll probably be Alpha Legion.

 

Also, loving Argel Tal. What a great couple of days for the Heresy!

Edited June 13, 2021 by Corswain

[Doctor Perils]

FWIW, I would welcome Calth returning as the 30k equivalent of Warhammer: Underworlds. It’s my favorite board game of all time - even above Space Hulk - and the system could scale up nicely for different legions.

I also really liked Calth's system, but I hope it's given another setting, can't stand any more of ultramar. Calling an "Underworlds" équivalent is a good idea, there's a bunch of characters and legion themes that could do with a bit of fleshing out without doing a massive release for them. You could also imagine the Sisters of Silence kill team thing (the excruciatus cadre)

[Captain Idaho]

The potential for HH 2.0 is really exciting for me, since a few of my friends are interested in starting Legion forces and this could be the catalyst I needed ;)

 

Whether this is a big ol' starter with a Spartan or that's an extra, it all looks very promising.

 

I might even replace all the MK6 helms with Praetor helms if I go Ultramarines with my new models.

 

Or do I start ANOTHER Legion? Agony of choice.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[LameBeard]

Yeah I would love a Calth 2.0: same game engine, similar forces (maybe add breachers?), new setting, new cards to represent 2 new legions.

 

The tricky bit is choosing a close-confines setting that can naturally use a hex board rather than right angles.

[Marshal Loss]

Don't see them touching the Calth/Prospero hex boardgame system again.

 

Curious whether GW will react to the leak today or if they'll wait till Monday. Interesting times. They must be fuming with that Dominion thingy on the near horizon. What a day to be a 30k fan. Feel greedy because I want more, more, more. :P

Edited June 13, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ya it's certainly great to see more support, though it stings a bit to know we got shuffled pretty far back due to covid, but it is what it is.

 

I do hope they take the chance to refine the rules a bit. A great part about 9th (and I think aos3 goes even further) is how they define terms and just generally write the rules tightly and I'd like to see that implemented in heresy as opposed to say the style of AT where it just runs on hopes and dreams. Past that, maybe some tweaks to reincorporate some of the old rules like ruins, pinning, outflank and the stuff that got cut from 5th and 6th that the game was built around.

[Valkyrion]

My only only concern is that the new MKVI are a different scale to my existing MKIV, as then it would look a bit odd fielding them in the same force.

 

But otherwise I'm buying 3. 

[Corswain]

The tricky bit is choosing a close-confines setting that can naturally use a hex board rather than right angles.

I think you could still use hexes on a zone mortalis style board. There would be some wasted space but no reason it couldn't work.

Fists and SoH make me think Mars but could be Siege as well. If there even is game component, I suppose.

 

I really hope there is though - loved Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero.

[Dark Legionnare]

My only only concern is that the new MKVI are a different scale to my existing MKIV, as then it would look a bit odd fielding them in the same force.

 

But otherwise I'm buying 3. 

Aye, that's my biggest worry. I think it may just be a trick of the eye with the lower greaves area being the beakey huge, one-piece slab, but we'll see once it's out.

 

I can't make use of it with my Luna Wolves project (since, ya'know, weren't Luna wolves anymore at that point when MKVI was out) but they do look gorgeous. Dread looks pretty rad too, though I do have a soft spot for the old Cyclone/Havoc launcher style. Eager to see what the characters are. I remember being a bit miffed that the Calth lads were monopose, but they've grown on me over the years. Can never have enough Cataphractii, either.

 

I scooped up another Calth box off eBay for $100 this last week, and it's been a while since I stared down the ol' Calth contemptor sprue. Please let this new one not be a dorky monopose, haha.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Ya it's certainly great to see more support, though it stings a bit to know we got shuffled pretty far back due to covid, but it is what it is.

 

I do hope they take the chance to refine the rules a bit. A great part about 9th (and I think aos3 goes even further) is how they define terms and just generally write the rules tightly and I'd like to see that implemented in heresy as opposed to say the style of AT where it just runs on hopes and dreams. Past that, maybe some tweaks to reincorporate some of the old rules like ruins, pinning, outflank and the stuff that got cut from 5th and 6th that the game was built around.

 

Honestly, I think one simple thing that would help would be putting all of a unit's special rules on it's profile - having to refer to the main rulebook for what special rules are conveyed by it's unit type, *as well* as any USRs listed in it's profile, then it's faction army list for any faction-specific special rule, *then* any unique rule that might be in it's profile is a big hurdle.

 

Streamlining the ruleset would be of huge benefit imo

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well even when 8th tried that it didn't work at all. You had the datasheet rules, but you also had faction and subfaction rules, stratagems and then the movement permissions for their unit type found in the main rules. The only thing 8th did was allow for inconsistencies across otherwise identical special rules.

 

Why waste space constantly re-iterating the same "infantry" and "character" and "legion astartes" rules over and over and over when you can define it once and then refer to it?

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Well even when 8th tried that it didn't work at all. You had the datasheet rules, but you also had faction and subfaction rules, stratagems and then the movement permissions for their unit type found in the main rules. The only thing 8th did was allow for inconsistencies across otherwise identical special rules.

 

Why waste space constantly re-iterating the same "infantry" and "character" and "legion astartes" rules over and over and over when you can define it once and then refer to it?

 

Okay, but do it in a more sensical manner - don't make me have to refer to the unit types section in the main rulebook to figure out what special rules that conveys, then go to the USRs section, then check the USRs on the sheet, then check the special rules from the army list, then check the rules from the legion book

 

Having to refer to 5 different places for one unit isn't fun, at least list the USRs conveyed by the unit type in brackets under it (like they do for the Primarch special rule) 

 

Also there are a bunch of instances of a special rule being listed only in a single unit's profile and then being referred to in another unit - this stuff *has* to be consolidated into a single place

[Ranulf]

I'm very confused.

 

It's like...

 

...

 

...

 

...I'm genuinely excited for a GW release. 

 

It's such a strange feeling. 

 

Love what we've seen of the MK VI so far; plus they already look great in my Sons of Horus colour scheme, so that's a win! I really hope they mix and match well with the MK III and IV plastics - being able to field III, IV, V and VI in the same force would give some lovely depth to a sea of power armour.

 

I'm almost to tempted to grab multiple boxes to do a Crimson Fist Beakie army for all the nostalgic feels.

 

-Ran

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Well even when 8th tried that it didn't work at all. You had the datasheet rules, but you also had faction and subfaction rules, stratagems and then the movement permissions for their unit type found in the main rules. The only thing 8th did was allow for inconsistencies across otherwise identical special rules.

 

Why waste space constantly re-iterating the same "infantry" and "character" and "legion astartes" rules over and over and over when you can define it once and then refer to it?

Okay, but do it in a more sensical manner - don't make me have to refer to the unit types section in the main rulebook to figure out what special rules that conveys, then go to the USRs section, then check the USRs on the sheet, then check the special rules from the army list, then check the rules from the legion book

 

Having to refer to 5 different places for one unit isn't fun, at least list the USRs conveyed by the unit type in brackets under it (like they do for the Primarch special rule)

 

Also there are a bunch of instances of a special rule being listed only in a single unit's profile and then being referred to in another unit - this stuff *has* to be consolidated into a single place

There's definitely opportunities to tighten things up like spelling out the additional special rules conveyed by unit type like fleet or hammer of wrath. Or the hardened armour debacle

 

But there's always going to be a case of looking up unit datasheet, faction rules and main rule book. You're just not going to get away from that as long as you're playing a GW game. There's no easy way to say that you're going to have to reference the rules until you just know them, and 30k kind of has the advantage that it's ruleset has been out for almost 10 years to build that level of knowledge and help newcomers.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

 

Well even when 8th tried that it didn't work at all. You had the datasheet rules, but you also had faction and subfaction rules, stratagems and then the movement permissions for their unit type found in the main rules. The only thing 8th did was allow for inconsistencies across otherwise identical special rules.

 

Why waste space constantly re-iterating the same "infantry" and "character" and "legion astartes" rules over and over and over when you can define it once and then refer to it?

Okay, but do it in a more sensical manner - don't make me have to refer to the unit types section in the main rulebook to figure out what special rules that conveys, then go to the USRs section, then check the USRs on the sheet, then check the special rules from the army list, then check the rules from the legion book

 

Having to refer to 5 different places for one unit isn't fun, at least list the USRs conveyed by the unit type in brackets under it (like they do for the Primarch special rule)

 

Also there are a bunch of instances of a special rule being listed only in a single unit's profile and then being referred to in another unit - this stuff *has* to be consolidated into a single place

There's definitely opportunities to tighten things up like spelling out the additional special rules conveyed by unit type like fleet or hammer of wrath. Or the hardened armour debacle

 

But there's always going to be a case of looking up unit datasheet, faction rules and main rule book. You're just not going to get away from that as long as you're playing a GW game. There's no easy way to say that you're going to have to reference the rules until you just know them, and 30k kind of has the advantage that it's ruleset has been out for almost 10 years to build that level of knowledge and help newcomers.

 

 

I do wonder if there'll be a 'basic' ruleset and 'advanced ruleset' (something closer to the current one) like Titanicus has - something to ease new players in especially if they don't an existing player to help them along. That and cheatsheets like the AT starter set comes with would be a big help imo

[Cris R]

 

FWIW, I would welcome Calth returning as the 30k equivalent of Warhammer: Underworlds. It’s my favorite board game of all time - even above Space Hulk - and the system could scale up nicely for different legions.

I also really liked Calth's system, but I hope it's given another setting, can't stand any more of ultramar. Calling an "Underworlds" équivalent is a good idea, there's a bunch of characters and legion themes that could do with a bit of fleshing out without doing a massive release for them. You could also imagine the Sisters of Silence kill team thing (the excruciatus cadre)

It wouldn’t be a retread of Calth. Instead, it would take the game system and use new seasons that capture different environments for combat in 30k like a ship or base with narrow halls, which is the WH: U model. Call it The Horus Heresy: Catacombs of Darkness or something like that and you’re set. Edited June 13, 2021 by Cris R

[Bloody Legionnaire]

The potential for HH 2.0 is really exciting for me, since a few of my friends are interested in starting Legion forces and this could be the catalyst I needed

 

Whether this is a big ol' starter with a Spartan or that's an extra, it all looks very promising.

 

I might even replace all the MK6 helms with Praetor helms if I go Ultramarines with my new models.

 

Or do I start ANOTHER Legion? Agony of choice.

 

Brother, you definitely start ANOTHER Legion!

[The Scorpion]

Well I definitely think this will be a proper release rather than a splash release as it sounds like the core set for Heresy rather than a spin off game like the last two boxes. This is a crafty way of selling what GW sells best, more marines and if they could get that to be the rumoured 3rd big box game then it's a dream come true for them, one set of minis that are marines that both sides of the game can use and 40k players will buy.

 

Mk VI is a good choice because it works well for 30k and 40k so chances are players of both going to be buying them.

 

The thing I am interested in seeing is if the interest for 30k continues once the novels come to an end. I've always known more readers of those books than people that actually play 30k

It will if you convince disgruntled SM fans that Firstborn aren't coming back and that Primaris is all that is left for 40k.

 

What I'm interested in is the new scale of these MKVI. If this box sells well, will we get the other Marks in plastic? Will we get the 3 and 4 in nu-scale?

[Cris R]

 

Well I definitely think this will be a proper release rather than a splash release as it sounds like the core set for Heresy rather than a spin off game like the last two boxes. This is a crafty way of selling what GW sells best, more marines and if they could get that to be the rumoured 3rd big box game then it's a dream come true for them, one set of minis that are marines that both sides of the game can use and 40k players will buy.

 

Mk VI is a good choice because it works well for 30k and 40k so chances are players of both going to be buying them.

 

The thing I am interested in seeing is if the interest for 30k continues once the novels come to an end. I've always known more readers of those books than people that actually play 30k

It will if you convince disgruntled SM fans that Firstborn aren't coming back and that Primaris is all that is left for 40k.

 

What I'm interested in is the new scale of these MKVI. If this box sells well, will we get the other Marks in plastic? Will we get the 3 and 4 in nu-scale?

 

 

You've got third party vendors like Tortuga Bay selling true scale leg/torso upgrades for MK II through MK IV, so it's plausible GW may revisit the MK IIIs and MK IVs at some point by following suit and doing new kits with updated leg/torsos.