State of the Union (Heresy)

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like bolter with overslung melta like the ones in the 40k Sternguard kit. But I need him, as long as his scale isn't stupidly big like the IF praetor, and I'm sure I can find a use for him.

Well, bad news for you on that front. Assuming the rumours of Imperial Fists versus Sons of Horus are the start of a rescaled range, then I think this size is what we can look forward to in the future. I've run up a mock-up on Death of a Rubricist to compare the new Sons of Horus Praetor with the Imperial Fist, and also the Word Bearers and Ultramarines Terminators.

 

This really bothers me,

It don't has to. These comparisons are all flawed or just plain made up for clickbait. There already had been people with the actual models and SURPRISE SURPRISE there is bo size creep. The IF praeter has chunky legs but that's it. Same with the other ones.

[Sarvis]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like bolter with overslung melta like the ones in the 40k Sternguard kit. But I need him, as long as his scale isn't stupidly big like the IF praetor, and I'm sure I can find a use for him.

Well, bad news for you on that front. Assuming the rumours of Imperial Fists versus Sons of Horus are the start of a rescaled range, then I think this size is what we can look forward to in the future. I've run up a mock-up on Death of a Rubricist to compare the new Sons of Horus Praetor with the Imperial Fist, and also the Word Bearers and Ultramarines Terminators.

 

This really bothers me,

It don't has to. These comparisons are all flawed or just plain made up for clickbait. There already had been people with the actual models and SURPRISE SURPRISE there is bo size creep. The IF praeter has chunky legs but that's it. Same with the other ones.

Yeah I’ve seen multiple of these size comparison images and they’re all different. We can’t know for sure until it’s assembled and next to the others

[LameBeard]

But the Imperial Fist really is massive, right? We’ve seen photos of the actual model?

[Gorgoff]

But the Imperial Fist really is massive, right? We’ve seen photos of the actual model?

He's a thicc boi, that's for sure but not taller or a different scale.

[Slips]

 

But the Imperial Fist really is massive, right? We’ve seen photos of the actual model?

He's a thicc boi, that's for sure but not taller or a different scale.

 

 

I- I dont know how you can come to that conclusion when you compare him to a resin Tartaros terminator.

[Sarvis]

The tartaros termies were already small though, I think? Even the cataphracti are bigger than them. I think what gorgoff meant was compared to new csm scale

[Slips]

The tartaros termies were already small though, I think? Even the cataphracti are bigger than them. I think what gorgoff meant was compared to new csm scale

Theyre not too different. Obviously, Cataphractii is bulkier just in general:

 

But, the thing is, as someone who owns the IF Praetors, they are noticeably larger than similar models. The PA one isnt as bad but you can tell with the Tartaros one.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I ran the tartaros one a few weeks ago with my cataphractii and it wasnt noticeable on the table. When you put him next to other models you can absolutely see it though.

Due to the 'slipping on a banana peel' pose the pa one has got going the difference isnt as noticeable. I think all in all the scale difference is fine.

The question is

- how much bigger will new plastics be since these are all resin kits

- will they adjust terminator size or re-use the old kits? In my book terminators should be proper chunky

Edited November 19, 2021 by Marshal Vespasian

[Corswain]

Scale conversation again, huh!? We can be such a pedantic community sometimes. :)

For me, scale creep is actually more realistic - people don't come in one size so super-people probably don't either. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable in-universe reasons for it too.

[Noserenda]

Scale conversation again, huh!? We can be such a pedantic community sometimes.

For me, scale creep is actually more realistic - people don't come in one size so super-people probably don't either. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable in-universe reasons for it too.

Ah the, "Must be this tall to get promoted" policy of the old Legions. Brings a tear to my eye that the Chapters abandoned it ;) 

[Cris R]

 

Scale conversation again, huh!? We can be such a pedantic community sometimes.

For me, scale creep is actually more realistic - people don't come in one size so super-people probably don't either. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable in-universe reasons for it too.

Ah the, "Must be this tall to get promoted" policy of the old Legions. Brings a tear to my eye that the Chapters abandoned it

 

You didn't hear? There's a new Rite of War for Legions with chonky Praetor models that gives the army +5 toughness. Definitely going to be a popular way to run armies, no doubt.

[jaxom]

[Marshal Rohr]

As any learned gentleman knows, Imperial Fists have always been extremely handsome and tall. It’s only proper their praetor is extremely handsome and much taller than other praetors.

[Excessus]

That picture reminds me of a kid that stands on his toes to seem taller when measuring height.

[zedmeister]

So, this is doing the rounds. Fake or real?

 

[Noserenda]

Its exactly the same as the current entry on the GW website aside from the colour of the sidebar and possibly page which is tactically fuzzy in this shot. It also seems to be a shot of a screen (might be the potato quality instead) which makes the "under the table furtive" angle seem odd unless they take photos gangsta style :D 

I suspect its a colour shifted troll, i would expect if they are changing the "branding" of a heresy data sheet then we would see some changes to the most iconic example of one tbh.

GW sheet for comparison:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Legion-Tactical-Squad.pdf

[ManticoreRich]

This is very much a fake.

 

So, this is doing the rounds. Fake or real?

[Old-Four-Arms]

Its exactly the same as the current entry on the GW website aside from the colour of the sidebar and possibly page which is tactically fuzzy in this shot. It also seems to be a shot of a screen (might be the potato quality instead) which makes the "under the table furtive" angle seem odd unless they take photos gangsta style  

 

I suspect its a colour shifted troll, i would expect if they are changing the "branding" of a heresy data sheet then we would see some changes to the most iconic example of one tbh.

 

GW sheet for comparison:

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Legion-Tactical-Squad.pdf

 

Just pointing out that there is no Initiative stat in the potato cam image..

[zedmeister]

...and the unit type is slightly different in appearance

[Gorgoff]

 

Its exactly the same as the current entry on the GW website aside from the colour of the sidebar and possibly page which is tactically fuzzy in this shot. It also seems to be a shot of a screen (might be the potato quality instead) which makes the "under the table furtive" angle seem odd unless they take photos gangsta style  

 

I suspect its a colour shifted troll, i would expect if they are changing the "branding" of a heresy data sheet then we would see some changes to the most iconic example of one tbh.

 

GW sheet for comparison:

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Legion-Tactical-Squad.pdf

 

Just pointing out that there is no Initiative stat in the potato cam image..

 

I hope that they don't adept the :cussty 40k cc system.

"Oh, those weak humans attack before Horus, because they charged him".

:cuss this :cuss.

[Noserenda]

Huh i did miss the Initiative, though the spacing does look a bit off on that end of the profile, might have been hidden or it might be the angle.

Losing initiative is kinda good but if they replace the broadly functioning "striking order" mechanics and leave in the completely indefensible movement rules of 7th id be surprised. No leadership changes either and in a version of the game so focused on morale exempt/protected troops id definitely have been looking to revamp that somehow.

[Gorgoff]

 and leave in the completely indefensible movement rules of 7th id be surprised. No leadership changes either and in a version of the game so focused on morale exempt/protected troops id definitely have been looking to revamp that somehow.

Although I'd prefer individual movement values as well, it is to much efford with to less impact in a game where 90% are basically astartes and therefore would still have the same movement. It would come in handy to show that certain units are faster/slower without the need of special rules though. Primarchs, EC in general and stuff like Cataphractii come to mind.

 

Leadership should stay as is because models vanishing because of morale is beyond stupid to me.

The models should run. You should move them away from the enemy to show that their spirit broke.

But in details there are many ways to improve it of course.

Personally I am not a huge fan of units being automatically destroyed when they flee from a cc and getting caught. 

If I remember correctly there was an older edition where in this case the fleeing unit only get some hits.

That would feel better and give stuff like fearless banners or psychic powers who help with morale more room to shine.  

Stuff like that.

All in all there are many little bits and pieces I would change but really in dire need are only the psychic phase, the balancing of all units in the game and how terrain works including cover and so on.

Everything else works just fine.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Gorgoff

[Noserenda]

The 7th ed movement system is page after page of rules desperately trying to avoid having a movement stat, even ignoring all the other armies you immediately honed in on a couple of astartes units that should move differently, let alone almost every vehicle in the game :)

Im not a fan of broken troops running away (except in combat)  as its much more realistic for broken troops to just mill around being ineffective until they get rallied or the enemy drives them off. Thats why i kinda like the more modern morale rules (if not the exact implementation of them) as combat ineffective troops just pop off, the actual soldier might well still be there malingering but wont being do much else in this skirmish. It can also apply to broadly "fearless" troops  representing a drop in efficiency from damage and a broad range of other things that make troops useless outside of discipline, which is handy in a game where the main force "knows no fear" and most of the other armies care even less :D 

 

[Gorgoff]

 

Im not a fan of broken troops running away (except in combat)  as its much more realistic for broken troops to just mill around being ineffective until they get rallied or the enemy drives them off. Thats why i kinda like the more modern morale rules (if not the exact implementation of them) as combat ineffective troops just pop off, the actual soldier might well still be there malingering but wont being do much else in this skirmish. It can also apply to broadly "fearless" troops  representing a drop in efficiency from damage and a broad range of other things that make troops useless outside of discipline, which is handy in a game where the main force "knows no fear" and most of the other armies care even less  

 

 

I see where you are coming from, but disagree in that regard, that, although I think you are onto something, I'd do it differently.

Why not like in Epic where units get some kind of a malus to their skill, or movement or whatever?

I am a big fan of modifications on shooting instead of the stupid cover system we have for decades now.

WHy not -2 on hitting the target if it is behind hard cover?

Way better than getting some kind of cover save because this save is more or less a "Ha ha you didn't hit me after all". 

That's just unnecessary roling and feels not very immersive.

 

 

 

The 7th ed movement system is page after page of rules desperately trying to avoid having a movement stat, even ignoring all the other armies you immediately honed in on a couple of astartes units that should move differently, let alone almost every vehicle in the game 

Oh, I am full on board when it comes to individual movement.

When Astartes have 5 (for example) EC could have 6, humans would have 4 and so on.

I started playing in second edition and that's what I prefer.

Easy fix for a lot of troubles and somewhat cumbersome rules with units having three special rules for basically saying "He is faster".

[Marshal Rohr]

Removing Initiative but not adding in Movement and leaving WS thru T on the current system seems an extremely unusual way to ‘revamp’ the game. As an aside you can find the Black Book style army list page templates and the FW Heresy font is something like Old Caslon. It wouldn’t be hard to forge for a troll.