State of the Union (Heresy)

[lansalt]

The Ultramarines haven't got anything new yet, only a illustration of a UM Destroyer in Mk5 armour that suggests a future unique unit for them.

[WrathOfTheLion]

So they'll probably be in another one yet. It's just the setup is starting to get old, when it's Ultramarines or Imperial Fists vs <Insert traitor legion here>. Personally, I think they've exhausted that and need to move on.

[Noserenda]

They quietly abandoned the monthly articles for the other specialist games so yeah i wouldnt hold my breath on Legion dispatch right now. Im hoping once the pandemic/shipping mayhem is over we might see them back though.

[darkhorse0607]

I have a suspicious feeling that Forgeworld counted the two models at the Black Library event as the monthly article for December. IIRC there was one in November and if they do one this month (not holding my breath but we will see), then it wouldn't be that large of a gap

[Joe]

WarCom Article.

 

New day, new article! PDF is available here. There's a new unit for both the Dark Angels and Death Guard.

 

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I feel like there's something fundamental I miss when it comes to death guard. I always feel like they're just a very vanilla legion with underbaked marine characters and a truly terrible rite of war.

 

These poison guys just continue that. They're more expensive than either support squad they can pretend to be, or the destroyers they ostensibly are. They don't score, they aren't particularly resilient and they're very short ranged; a recipe to be killed by shooting. Flamers are also particularly in effective vs marines as you need basically a perfect concave from a squad of 10 to average 10 dead power armour. Maybe they should have been toxiferrum with the shred.

[nagashnee]

Maybe now we will see the DA termies with swords for once.

[Balerion84]

Oh this is so nice. Last couple of games we pretended 2 of my 4 swords were hammers. Now I can actually play my cenobiums wysiwyg with 1 hammer and 4 swords.

[Varyn]

I feel like there's something fundamental I miss when it comes to death guard. I always feel like they're just a very vanilla legion with underbaked marine characters and a truly terrible rite of war.

 

These poison guys just continue that. They're more expensive than either support squad they can pretend to be, or the destroyers they ostensibly are. They don't score, they aren't particularly resilient and they're very short ranged; a recipe to be killed by shooting. Flamers are also particularly in effective vs marines as you need basically a perfect concave from a squad of 10 to average 10 dead power armour. Maybe they should have been toxiferrum with the shred.

 

I agree. 

 

This feels like a missed opportunity, they are essentially destroyers without the jump pack option and access to chem-flamers. They could have given them much more unique rules/equipment like 3+ poison flamers or perhaps AP3 on a 6 to wound. The heavy flamer option is far too expensive and seems poor when compared to the 2 point caedere weapons for the new WE unit.

[Balerion84]

So, I got excited by the Cenobium swords, but actually thinking about it, they won't solve my issues with the unit.

I play ZM almost exclusively, and my opponents are either WB or TS (with 2 units of Sekhmet, Contemptor and that TS Automata). Haven't tried them against WB yet, but against TS, even the games that I won, the Cenobium didn't do anything (ok, once, they removed Praetor with his command squad in 1 round of combat, so that was sweet. Then they got removed in the following shooting phase). Most of the time they just get removed by Sekhmet combi bolters.

Missing permanent ID and Hekatonystika, could be an issue against TS for me, but then, they never got into combat with those Sekhmet termies :D

 

So I guess, in future, I'll have my Cenobiums blasted off the board, but at least they'll have nice swords.

 

Still, those swords look nice. Just need to figure out how to get them into combat.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Balerion84

[Dagoth Ur]

Yeah against 2W terminators the regular blades are definitely preferable, but against the vast majority of things I could see these new ones being really nice. Gonna have to throw them on a board soon.

[Cris R]

So, I got excited by the Cenobium swords, but actually thinking about it, they won't solve my issues with the unit.

I play ZM almost exclusively, and my opponents are either WB or TS (with 2 units of Sekhmet, Contemptor and that TS Automata). Haven't tried them against WB yet, but against TS, even the games that I won, the Cenobium didn't do anything (ok, once, they removed Praetor with his command squad in 1 round of combat, so that was sweet. Then they got removed in the following shooting phase). Most of the time they just get removed by Sekhmet combi bolters.

Missing permanent ID and Hekatonystika, could be an issue against TS for me, but then, they never got into combat with those Sekhmet termies :D

 

So I guess, in future, I'll have my Cenobiums blasted off the board, but at least they'll have nice swords.

 

Still, those swords look nice. Just need to figure out how to get them into combat.

If it wasn’t ZM, I’d say running them with a Terminator Warmonger to Deep Strike them in would be an option. But that’s obviously a riskier proposition in that game mode.

 

One way that these rules are interesting for Blood Angels players revolves around whether GW would take this model for the Knights - make adjustments to the base model with new toys and abilities - and apply them to the Crimson Paladins, which really need some attention. Obviously there are other models like the Sanguinary Guard that could use rules in 30k but this other option would be welcome.

[Corswain]

Honestly, I haven't been excited by any of the new units in the Exemplary Battles so far. I'm not a gamer so it probably is largely down to no new models but even the example pictures are kinda uninspiring - The Dark Angels are exactly the same with a different paint job.

I guess I'm just pining for the days of GW showing off cool conversions to get the hobby ideas flowing.

[Armillion]

Why do I feel so uninspired by the Mortis Poisoners?  It just feels like a rehash of the same niche that Deathshroud and Grave Wardens are.  I had hoped for a rad missile flavored heavy support squad, like a DG version of BA's Angels Tears, not a flamer tactical support squad that trades scoring for counterattack or a destroyer squad that loses its mobility option and 1A for more flamers.

 

Like its not like they even gave them the improved FAQ profile destroyers got...

 

At least if we were going all in on the war-crime flamy trope, some variety would be nice.  Either one of two options would help:

 

Option 1:

Replace bullet points 3 & 4 with the following since Book 8 explicitly says toxiferran munitions originated with the Dusk Raiders, so why not let us spam them on a DG specific unit since they still hate psykers at this point:

 

 - Any model in the squad may exchange their bolter for one of the following

    - Flamer with chem-munitions.......................................................Free

    - Toxiferran flamer.........................................................+7 points each

 - For every five models in the squad, one Poisoner may exchange their bolter for one of the following:

    - Heavy flamer with chem-munitions...........................+10 points each

    - Toxiferran combustor.................................................+20 points each

 

Toxiferran Combustor: Range: Template, S5, AP4, Poisoned (3+), Tainted  *Yeah I made it up... yada yada...*

 

Option 2:

Make the Mortis Poisoner Squad a fast attack choice.  That's it.  Then at least it doesn't directly compete with any of the other choices that death guard has for this role because it is in a different FOC slot and instead can be used alongside of them.

 

 

At the end of the day though, I'm still going to build one unit for my DG since its still fluffy and rule of cool, if somewhat redundant to similar units I already have.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

I feel like there's something fundamental I miss when it comes to death guard. I always feel like they're just a very vanilla legion with underbaked marine characters and a truly terrible rite of war.

 

These poison guys just continue that. They're more expensive than either support squad they can pretend to be, or the destroyers they ostensibly are. They don't score, they aren't particularly resilient and they're very short ranged; a recipe to be killed by shooting. Flamers are also particularly in effective vs marines as you need basically a perfect concave from a squad of 10 to average 10 dead power armour. Maybe they should have been toxiferrum with the shred.

I agree.

 

This feels like a missed opportunity, they are essentially destroyers without the jump pack option and access to chem-flamers. They could have given them much more unique rules/equipment like 3+ poison flamers or perhaps AP3 on a 6 to wound. The heavy flamer option is far too expensive and seems poor when compared to the 2 point caedere weapons for the new WE unit.

You know what, the thing I missed seems to be ZM where these guys are honestly quite good.

 

The heavy flamer option is outrageously priced regardless of mode though.

[Balerion84]

If it wasn’t ZM, I’d say running them with a Terminator Warmonger to Deep Strike them in would be an option. But that’s obviously a riskier proposition in that game mode.

 

 

Yeah, even with the risks I might have to consider deep striking them in somehow, maybe take a vox? Worst case they deep strike into a wall and don't do anything, like in almost every game I tried them in so far :D

 

How are people finding Cenobium knights anyway? Specifically in ZM.

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

I feel like there's something fundamental I miss when it comes to death guard. I always feel like they're just a very vanilla legion with underbaked marine characters and a truly terrible rite of war.

These poison guys just continue that. They're more expensive than either support squad they can pretend to be, or the destroyers they ostensibly are. They don't score, they aren't particularly resilient and they're very short ranged; a recipe to be killed by shooting. Flamers are also particularly in effective vs marines as you need basically a perfect concave from a squad of 10 to average 10 dead power armour. Maybe they should have been toxiferrum with the shred.

I agree.

This feels like a missed opportunity, they are essentially destroyers without the jump pack option and access to chem-flamers. They could have given them much more unique rules/equipment like 3+ poison flamers or perhaps AP3 on a 6 to wound. The heavy flamer option is far too expensive and seems poor when compared to the 2 point caedere weapons for the new WE unit.

You know what, the thing I missed seems to be ZM where these guys are honestly quite good.

 

The heavy flamer option is outrageously priced regardless of mode though.

 

I concur, a bit. Only digression is the S5 boost from chems is nice, but I feel like S4 w/shred is effective enough to make the S5 w/shred not worth the gets-hot potential, in ZM I mean.

 

 

 

If it wasn’t ZM, I’d say running them with a Terminator Warmonger to Deep Strike them in would be an option. But that’s obviously a riskier proposition in that game mode.

Yeah, even with the risks I might have to consider deep striking them in somehow, maybe take a vox? Worst case they deep strike into a wall and don't do anything, like in almost every game I tried them in so far

How are people finding Cenobium knights anyway? Specifically in ZM.

I usually take a Vox in my breachers for the sole purpose of guiding in a squad of cataphractii with combis and heavy flamer.

 

Can't espouse it enough. In bigger games, them, and some Justaerin too! The range is surprisingly forgiving in ZM compared to normal full-table battle

Edited January 18, 2022 by Dark Legionnare

[Asbestress]

Hello!

I know this might be slightly off-topic to the current theme of the discussion here, but I'd like to share my thoughts on the possibly pricing of the
presumably existant Horus Heresy Box Set.

I do not know if such a thing has been posted here before (I've looked trough several dozen pages of the discussion here), so sorry if this is redundant.

 

One thing that might be a bit off compared to the Forge World prices is the Spartan. I've compared it here to the Repulsor Executioner, which is a about the size of a Spartan (perhaps a bit smaller), and added 10 Pounds. I do not think it will cost any more than 80, as it will be a plastic kit, and, as far as I know, no other plastic vehicle kit of that size has cost that much.

 

As for the actual price of the box, I think it WILL probably cost a bit more than Indomitus, probably around the 130-150 Pound mark but that is just purely speculation.

 

I'll gladly take any comments on my theorem.

[Gorgoff]

If they make such a box anything between 120-150 € seems plausible.

But it won't have a Spartan in it.

[Hfran Morkai]

Wasn't there the text at the bottom that said "...n not included."? And this was cut off so could have said Spartan but typically refers to terrain.

[MegaVolt87]

There is the heresy tax. For example compare the price difference between mk III/IV tac squads to 40k tac squads, same with the terminators and 40k terminators. Convert to percentages, calculate the average mark up percentage then add that to the base executioner cost if using that to estimate the cost of a plastic Spartan.

[Noserenda]

Valrak has been told £180 and that feels about right based on fw pricing of plastics previously. They don't want to loss lead like a main system box and they know enough folks will buy it regardless I'm sure.

[Asbestress]

 

 

If they make such a box anything between 120-150 € seems plausible.

But it won't have a Spartan in it.

 Quite possible. We'll have to wait and see.

 

 

Wasn't there the text at the bottom that said "...n not included."? And this was cut off so could have said Spartan but typically refers to terrain.

I've just looked at it again, to me it seems like the first word ends in "...ery", so possibly scenery. Alas, the letters n and y are curiously similar, so no concrete answers here.

[Asbestress]

Valrak has been told £180 and that feels about right based on fw pricing of plastics previously. They don't want to loss lead like a main system box and they know enough folks will buy it regardless I'm sure.

That still seems like quite a "loss leader", almost 50% less than my theorised amount.

But, of course, that is more than previous Launch Sets.

 

There is the heresy tax. For example compare the price difference between mk III/IV tac squads to 40k tac squads, same with the terminators and 40k terminators. Convert to percentages, calculate the average mark up percentage then add that to the base executioner cost if using that to estimate the cost of a plastic Spartan.

For the Tactical Squads I don't see a difference, both are 30 Pounds. Cataphractii are around 5 Pounds (35 vs 40) more, so like 7% more?

[lansalt]

There is the heresy tax. For example compare the price difference between mk III/IV tac squads to 40k tac squads, same with the terminators and 40k terminators. Convert to percentages, calculate the average mark up percentage then add that to the base executioner cost if using that to estimate the cost of a plastic Spartan.

Uh? all tac squads are the same £30 at GW's site. And a box of intercessors is £35.