Warhawk by Chris Wraight

[Scribe]

there's spoilers on reddit for anyone curious

 

have to say, i'm not huge on what i read but as always leaving judgment for the actual book.

Link? I was kept up all night by my neighbor and need a place to direct my agitation.

[Fire Golem]

Guess I’ll steer clear of this thread until BL actually see fit to release the bloody thing. 

[Old-Four-Arms]

WARNING : Siege of Terra - Warhawk spoilers in below link

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/pjitxy/spoilers_warhawk_siege_of_terra_major_plot_points/

[DarkChaplain]

 

there's spoilers on reddit for anyone curious

 

have to say, i'm not huge on what i read but as always leaving judgment for the actual book.

Link? I was kept up all night by my neighbor and need a place to direct my agitation.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/pjitxy/spoilers_warhawk_siege_of_terra_major_plot_points/

[Noserenda]

The spoilers sound interesting, im definitely keen to some day get the book in hand and see how they play out on the page (Or the Audio, assuming i finish the Expeditionary force series first :D ) 

[Tymell]

I'm not reading these ones, but I'm always highly sceptical of these sort of early spoiler summaries. Plot points can often sound very different without context, or if presented in a particular way by the person giving them. There have been a bunch such summaries where I read the book myself, then saw the "summary" later and was stunned at how misrepresentative it was.

[Scribe]

Most of that looks fine. I have one item putting me into a bit of a simmering annoyance, but we will see.

[Sothalor]

I'm not reading these ones, but I'm always highly sceptical of these sort of early spoiler summaries. Plot points can often sound very different without context, or if presented in a particular way by the person giving them. There have been a bunch such summaries where I read the book myself, then saw the "summary" later and was stunned at how misrepresentative it was.

 

Very much this. SOP for spoilers and even extracts from the 40k Lore subreddit ought to be taking them with a whole lotta salt.

 

Let's just say that if you're looking for nuanced, accurate discussions from people who've bloody read the source material, and/or are capable of contextualizing sentences or paragraphs within the broader setting, or basic reading comprehension, that subreddit is... not optimal.

[depthcharge12]

Wow…there’s some juicy stuff in there. Refreshing to read a plot after Mortis.

 

I don’t think (or much less the audience) that the Khan is perma-dead. We’ve seen Malcador pulling some shenanigans this late in the siege and I wouldn’t put it past him to revive the Khan.

 

Also…INB4 b1soul sees what happens to the Khan lol

[DarkChaplain]

Wow…there’s some juicy stuff in there. Refreshing to read a plot after Mortis.

 

I don’t think (or much less the audience) that the Khan is perma-dead. We’ve seen Malcador pulling some shenanigans this late in the siege and I wouldn’t put it past him to revive the Khan.

 

Also…INB4 b1soul sees what happens to the Khan lol

It's obviously a way to have the Khan out of the picture for the coming books. They need to justify why he isn't boarding the Vengeful Spirit with Dorn and Sanguinius, but they can't put him out there because the warzone has shrunk so much, he'd be able to go reach the Emperor's side on short notice even if he were in riding around the place.

Meanwhile, they can't tie him up properly with the traitors either, as the Traitor Primarchs are either already gone (Perturabo, Mortarion, kinda Fulgrim) or involved in the finale (Horus), with only Angron still unaccounted for, really, and that should be sorted with Sanguinius in book 7, where Angron will likely fill in for Ka'bandha in getting slapped about.

 

Jaghatai needed to take a break, the loyalists needed to "lose" someone, but he needs to be back by roughly the time the Emperor's dying body gets brought back to the Palace / for the Scouring. Jaghatai Khan cannot be dead for good, because we have plenty of lore referencing him as having survived the Siege, though, so he's only kinda dead to allow for some sort of miracle in the coming two books to cement the Imperial Creed, I'd wager.

 

Kind of disappointed with Erebus, though. I'm hoping there'll be a lot of good reasoning as to why he needs to convince Erda of all people - somebody we didn't even know existed, or rather, noone gave a damn about until Saturnine and was already in a sort of inelegant position next to Astarte - to worship him. What's the point? What would change by turning Erda at this junction? What's the big idea? She's pretty much quit the great game.

 

I mean, Erebus has been manipulating people here and there to set them up for later payoff, but I don't see what payoff he'd expect from Erda, and why he'd do it now. Or why he was suddenly so interested in Oll. Nevermind that Oll left from Calth, while Erebus was on Calth for a little bit, then left and screwed over Argel Tal / Khârn, then did some stuff in Ultramar to set up the fulgurite->Vulkan stuff, then apparently chased Oll through space and time, and now ends up on Terra? It feels so unfocused, all over the place, that I have trouble even taking Erebus seriously as a major villain anymore.

 

I hope this is addressed in the book, because damn, the Heresy hasn't done Erebus justice since Betrayer.

[Kelborn]

Read the first sentence and instantly closed the browser.

 

I'll definitely avoid this thread from now on. XD

 

First siege novel I'm really hyped about.

Though I've got all siege novels, I wanted to wait and read them in a row.

 

Guess, I'll need to read the others prior to Warhawk instead of seeing it as a straight continuation of the Scars' arc, eh?

[Taliesin]

Basically, yes ;)

[Bobss]

Most of that looks fine. I have one item putting me into a bit of a simmering annoyance, but we will see.

 

Same here. There's one scene I had locked in my head for years and years, and I don't think it's been done justice based on these spoilers, but otherwise I'm really looking forward to reading it. There's a lot of stuff here to really go over - I think it's the only other, truly jam-packed book in the Siege alongside Saturnine now that I think about it. I've recently pushed myself to reread Mortis and my opinion of the book has greatly improved, but all of that said, going from Saturnine to Mortis to Warhawk during rereads will feel a bit weird

 

I feel like

Erebus

is either my spirit animal or my self-insert after reading these spoilers

 

My brother. My captain. My king

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bobss

[mc warhammer]

I'm not reading these ones, but I'm always highly sceptical of these sort of early spoiler summaries. Plot points can often sound very different without context, or if presented in a particular way by the person giving them. There have been a bunch such summaries where I read the book myself, then saw the "summary" later and was stunned at how misrepresentative it was.

100%.

 

one of the guys on reddit offering up spoilers is convinced dorn killed omegon not alpharius and that the

"alpharius" from mortis

is without doubt actually the primarch himself. so you're not exactly getting info through an undistorted lens. 

 

add to that that wraight's strength as a writer comes more from the joy of his writing and characterisation in and of itself rather than the plot points, making it impossible for a dot point summary to do his work justice.

 

to clarify: my personal lack of enthusiasm is an overall one with the siege at this point not wraight: for the third last book a lot of this reads out of place for where and how i would expect or hope things would be playing out by now. it just hits me as ...disjointed? i'm sure the book itself will be well written, i'm expecting to shed tears like a blood angels primarch on a tuesday.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead

[Noserenda]

I mean, the main set of leaks is organised by thread rather than chronology and the dude admits repeatedly to paraphrasing scnes into nonsense so yeah, its disjointed :) 

Id like to say its obviously a limited summary but ive been on the internet too long :D 

[mc warhammer]

chronology isn't what i'm getting at with "disjointed" though. DC's post is within the ballpark of how i felt reading the spoilers.

[Scribe]

chronology isn't what i'm getting at with "disjointed" though. DC's post is within the ballpark of how i felt reading the spoilers.

 

Its certainly trying to cover a lot, but I believe thats simply the nature of the beast now. They let things get out of control, they did what they said they wouldnt in expanding even this series, and...its kind of just hurtling towards the finish line, falling to pieces as it goes. :D

[mc warhammer]

 

 

chronology isn't what i'm getting at with "disjointed" though. DC's post is within the ballpark of how i felt reading the spoilers.

Its certainly trying to cover a lot, but I believe thats simply the nature of the beast now. They let things get out of control, they did what they said they wouldnt in expanding even this series, and...its kind of just hurtling towards the finish line, falling to pieces as it goes. :D

yeah i think bloat is a big part of it, in hindsight (for whatever that's worth) i think the series would have benefitted from less books. there are things happening in warhawk (and even saturnine) that i think could have happened in book 2. on the other hand there's stuff in the spoilers for warhawk that i reckon might be better in the last book.

 

the series could have been more focused with throughlines and arcs or gone the other way and given us 8 distinct books set independently against the backdrop of the siege, but as it is, it feels like it's bogged down in the middle somewhere.

 

that being said, there's been some compelling spots in amongst it all.

Edited September 8, 2021 by mc warhammer

[Scribe]

 

the series could have been more focused with throughlines and arcs or gone the other way and given us 8 distinct books set independently against the backdrop of the siege, but as it is, it feels like it's bogged down in the middle somewhere.

 

 

Yeah, which is what they claimed it would be or maybe I just wish that was the case and I'm fabricating the memory. It's just unfortunate to me at this point. 

[mc warhammer]

 

 

the series could have been more focused with throughlines and arcs or gone the other way and given us 8 distinct books set independently against the backdrop of the siege, but as it is, it feels like it's bogged down in the middle somewhere.

 

 

Yeah, which is what they claimed it would be or maybe I just wish that was the case and I'm fabricating the memory. It's just unfortunate to me at this point. 

 

i think you're right. i stay away from marketing and interviews in general but i do recall adb saying something to that affect prior to the books being released.

 

i have a bit of sympathy there though. i can't think of a similarly numbered line of books or comics spread out amongst 6 different authors that managed to have more cohesion than the siege, the only examples that come to mind are also spotty. tv shows can have as many or more writers per season but they have the advantage of script editors, showrunners, directors and even the actors themselves keeping an eye on arcs and cohesion and story logic. i mean, there's even a person who's entire job is continuity. that's a lot of extra heads to keep the story straight that books and comics just don't have.

[Scribe]

I dont know, I'm of the opinion its a 'you had one job' kinda thing, and it didnt happen. I'm betting the books could have started with Saturnine when all is said and done.

[mc warhammer]

I dont know, I'm of the opinion its a 'you had one job' kinda thing, and it didnt happen. I'm betting the books could have started with Saturnine when all is said and done.

i really, really wish shared creative endeavours were that simple.

 

and yeah, i actually think starting the series as deep in as saturnine might have been preferable. but coulda woulda shoulda

[mc warhammer]

 

Wow…there’s some juicy stuff in there. Refreshing to read a plot after Mortis.

 

I don’t think (or much less the audience) that the Khan is perma-dead. We’ve seen Malcador pulling some shenanigans this late in the siege and I wouldn’t put it past him to revive the Khan.

 

Also…INB4 b1soul sees what happens to the Khan lol

It's obviously a way to have the Khan out of the picture for the coming books. They need to justify why he isn't boarding the Vengeful Spirit with Dorn and Sanguinius, but they can't put him out there because the warzone has shrunk so much, he'd be able to go reach the Emperor's side on short notice even if he were in riding around the place.

Meanwhile, they can't tie him up properly with the traitors either, as the Traitor Primarchs are either already gone (Perturabo, Mortarion, kinda Fulgrim) or involved in the finale (Horus), with only Angron still unaccounted for, really, and that should be sorted with Sanguinius in book 7, where Angron will likely fill in for Ka'bandha in getting slapped about.

 

Jaghatai needed to take a break, the loyalists needed to "lose" someone, but he needs to be back by roughly the time the Emperor's dying body gets brought back to the Palace / for the Scouring. Jaghatai Khan cannot be dead for good, because we have plenty of lore referencing him as having survived the Siege, though, so he's only kinda dead to allow for some sort of miracle in the coming two books to cement the Imperial Creed, I'd wager.

 

Kind of disappointed with Erebus, though. I'm hoping there'll be a lot of good reasoning as to why he needs to convince Erda of all people - somebody we didn't even know existed, or rather, noone gave a damn about until Saturnine and was already in a sort of inelegant position next to Astarte - to worship him. What's the point? What would change by turning Erda at this junction? What's the big idea? She's pretty much quit the great game.

 

I mean, Erebus has been manipulating people here and there to set them up for later payoff, but I don't see what payoff he'd expect from Erda, and why he'd do it now. Or why he was suddenly so interested in Oll. Nevermind that Oll left from Calth, while Erebus was on Calth for a little bit, then left and screwed over Argel Tal / Khârn, then did some stuff in Ultramar to set up the fulgurite->Vulkan stuff, then apparently chased Oll through space and time, and now ends up on Terra? It feels so unfocused, all over the place, that I have trouble even taking Erebus seriously as a major villain anymore.

 

I hope this is addressed in the book, because damn, the Heresy hasn't done Erebus justice since Betrayer.

 

i do get the reasoning with

taking the khan off the board, i just wonder if placing it nearer to the vengeful spirit shenanigans would have been more effective. in the old william king version, dorn makes a desperate attempt to include jaghatai in the boarding:

 

Above, the great Sky Fortress bore Rogal Dorn and the remnants of the Imperial Fists to the inner palace. The loyal Primarch was determined to stand and die with his Emperor in the final hour. The Sky Fortress then raced away from the palace in a desperate attempt to reach Jaghatai Khan and return him to the palace. It was destroyed by a blaze of fire from the Death's Head Titan Legion.

 

feels to me like a decent moment to have mortarion step in and "kill" jaghati, just as dorn almost brings him back.

 

maybe its too hollywood?

 

or even keeping the fighting too desperate and thick to return the khan to the palace as king had it, works better for me on paper.

 

minor gripe: i'm fake death exhausted. between loken, rylanor, malcador and now jaghatai (and possibly erda too) i just want some old fashioned burials with tombstones in my siege books.

 

but wraight, bowden and abnett might have plotted this out better than i can imagine with a great pay off for khan by the last book. still really keen to read this

Edited September 8, 2021 by mc warhammer

[Taliesin]

Spoiler question:

 

So how does Mortarion killing Jaghatai end up banishing him, how ( and why) does that work exactly?

[Morovir]

I guess this technically means that (SPOILERS FOR GODBLIGHT)

 

Mortarion has a primarch kill count of 2 - the problem is that his kills just refuse to stay dead.