Preparing for our 9:ed codex

[Prot]

The scarabs were always "good enough" in melee.

 

With an extra wound, better soulreaper and double the cc punch (just enough to tear through marines)-and costs nearly the same, it's a pretty big buff for them.

The amount of time all is dust was relevant for invuls wasbt high on scarabs anyway, not many 1d weapons have the ap for it.

 

Extra attack too!

[Prot]

Speaking of Prep for the codex, I'm looking at doing some work on my Forgefiends which are assembled but nothing else.

 

My big question is did they get a BS/WS improvement?

 

I have the 2021 chapter approved, and the base cost seems quite high. Does that cost INCLUDE the Hades? Or do I add them on top of their listed cost? (If so, this unit went up about 40 points with Hades!!)

 

+EDIT+

 

Okay I might be misreading the field manual here. It says 110. I assume this is without the arms? They come in at 25@ so that's a new price of 160 vs the old 135 is a 25 point hike. 

 

For that the thing better be BS3.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Prot

[WickedJester1013]

If I remember right prot, around December/January time when they were showing off deathguard. They mention daemon engines would be going up in BS. Obviously this was talking about DG at the time, but the way they talked about it seemed like general daemon engines. Fingers crossed for badass forgefiends!!

[Trokair]

Ok, I know the All Is Dust change to no longer affect the invulnerable is a nerf, but what weapon are you/were you facing where that matters/mattered a lot?

 

Not overcharged plasma? But the same problem for all MEQ/TEQ.

[Marshal Loss]

Speaking of Prep for the codex, I'm looking at doing some work on my Forgefiends which are assembled but nothing else.

 

My big question is did they get a BS/WS improvement?

 

I have the 2021 chapter approved, and the base cost seems quite high. Does that cost INCLUDE the Hades? Or do I add them on top of their listed cost? (If so, this unit went up about 40 points with Hades!!)

 

+EDIT+

 

Okay I might be misreading the field manual here. It says 110. I assume this is without the arms? They come in at 25@ so that's a new price of 160 vs the old 135 is a 25 point hike. 

 

For that the thing better be BS3.

They'll be BS3:

 

 

 

As with the improvements to Plague Marines, the upgrades to Daemon Engines will also be carried over to the other Heretic Astartes armies when they get their new codex.

[Archaeinox]

All is Dust only applying to Armor Saves is still solid. 

 

Consider the mono-bonus of Cabalistic Ritual, additional stratagem support, spells we don't know about, more Infernal Pacts we don't know about, AND that they have an extra wound and AP -2 boltguns for no real big price hike.

 

We're good. I'm going to do some heavy testing soon when I have access to the rules and of course I will report back. There might also be other ways I can contribute to our... Knowledge.. here. More info on that soon (no, its not book leaks)

Edited August 6, 2021 by Archaeinox

[Toldavf]

All is dust will probably face the same nerf the Lucius Ad mech got, and rightly so. 0+ armour save termies are kinda silly. 

[Are Verlo]

All is dust will probably face the same nerf the Lucius Ad mech got, and rightly so. 0+ armour save termies are kinda silly. 

 

The difference is huge. Skittari bodies costs 8 pts per wound/model and are troops, that can be fielded in staggering numbers. They share little with SoTs.

 

Skittari rangers/vanguard come in hordes of 20 bodies and are largely "immun" to wepons designed to clear hordes of light infantry- SoTs will be targeted by melta and other weapons doing damage 3+d3.

 

Don´t get me wrong, I love SoTs and I´m very positive to the rules on the previews. My point is that they should not (IMO) be balanced around abilities avaiable to the skittari at the moment.

[Toldavf]

 

All is dust will probably face the same nerf the Lucius Ad mech got, and rightly so. 0+ armour save termies are kinda silly. 

 

The difference is huge. Skittari bodies costs 8 pts per wound/model and are troops, that can be fielded in staggering numbers. They share little with SoTs.

 

Skittari rangers/vanguard come in hordes of 20 bodies and are largely "immun" to wepons designed to clear hordes of light infantry- SoTs will be targeted by melta and other weapons doing damage 3+d3.

 

Don´t get me wrong, I love SoTs and I´m very positive to the rules on the previews. My point is that they should not (IMO) be balanced around abilities avaiable to the skittari at the moment.

 

 

 

What about your regular Rubrics those guys are going to be hard to shift? they are gonna be a fearlrss, 20 wound, t4, obsec unit, with 1+ saves in cover and obsec, even if you target them with a unit like hell blasters with overcharge you can spend a few cp and make them damage 1 again. Yeah sure you dont have the obsene damage of skittari but you are still getting 20 str 4 -2 save shots which is very good.

[jgascoine011]

 

 

All is dust will probably face the same nerf the Lucius Ad mech got, and rightly so. 0+ armour save termies are kinda silly. 

 

The difference is huge. Skittari bodies costs 8 pts per wound/model and are troops, that can be fielded in staggering numbers. They share little with SoTs.

 

Skittari rangers/vanguard come in hordes of 20 bodies and are largely "immun" to wepons designed to clear hordes of light infantry- SoTs will be targeted by melta and other weapons doing damage 3+d3.

 

Don´t get me wrong, I love SoTs and I´m very positive to the rules on the previews. My point is that they should not (IMO) be balanced around abilities avaiable to the skittari at the moment.

 

 

 

What about your regular Rubrics those guys are going to be hard to shift? they are gonna be a fearlrss, 20 wound, t4, obsec unit, with 1+ saves in cover and obsec, even if you target them with a unit like hell blasters with overcharge you can spend a few cp and make them damage 1 again. Yeah sure you dont have the obsene damage of skittari but you are still getting 20 str 4 -2 save shots which is very good.

 

 

If your on an objective you shouldnt really be getting cover.

But either way, killing 10 T4 3+ save models is really not that hard, in cover or not.

They are fine for their points, but lets not overthink them.

 

The scarab occult terminators not getting a 4++ has really hurt them though.

[Trokair]

With the codex on its way I have finally been building some of my TS stuff, and I am aware that wording in the codex might change this, but I had a few questions on terminator load out and what people preferred/did.

 

Sorcerer, I assume keep the inferno bolter over the power sowrd?

 

Are the heavy wrap flamers ever taken, and if so for what role, all list and discussions I have come across always just talk of the Soulreaper?

 

Can the missile rack go on the sorcerer/heavy weapon terminator or does it need to be a basic terminator?   

[Mordas]

We can still give our SoT a 4++ and also bring models back with the cult of time, both of these are incredibly strong and we shouldn't try to be the DG with them. I think we will be seeing a lot of SoT in lists going forwards, I am thinking for myself a squad of 10 and one 5 man squad.

[The Yncarne]

For my Scarab Occult it comes down to which cult to use. I understand why people prefer Cult of Time, but Cult of Scheming looks good too. Still not expecting to take the flamer option myself @Trokair.

[Prot]

I meant to post this here to see if anyone else had some difficulty finding stuff...

 

I drove to the local GW shop to get out of the queue system, and make an order in person to give the sale to the store (it helps prop the store's sales up a bit.)

 

So I admit I was hesitant to get the "Limited" Collector's set up just because of the box having so many models I own, plus I don't know anyone that wants the Grey Knights half. lol

 

What sold me on the Limited collection was the art piece... there are a few armies I've played since inception and I tend to get a little stupid when spending on them.

 

Anyway, guess what? It didn't matter. I was first in line, the store manager worked the store terminal.... he kept hitting refresh (as I asked him to) right before 12 PM local time. After about the 10th attempt. the new stuff loaded up! I immediately said, click on the Collector's set, and please put it in the cart.....

 

As we hit the digital checkout right at about 12:01 PM, the cart showed the item sold out.

 

Wow. 12:01 PM.

 

I was bummed, but still ordered Hexfire, Dice/Cards. 

[Iron Sage]

I meant to post this here to see if anyone else had some difficulty finding stuff...

 

I drove to the local GW shop to get out of the queue system, and make an order in person to give the sale to the store (it helps prop the store's sales up a bit.)

 

So I admit I was hesitant to get the "Limited" Collector's set up just because of the box having so many models I own, plus I don't know anyone that wants the Grey Knights half. lol

 

What sold me on the Limited collection was the art piece... there are a few armies I've played since inception and I tend to get a little stupid when spending on them.

 

Anyway, guess what? It didn't matter. I was first in line, the store manager worked the store terminal.... he kept hitting refresh (as I asked him to) right before 12 PM local time. After about the 10th attempt. the new stuff loaded up! I immediately said, click on the Collector's set, and please put it in the cart.....

 

As we hit the digital checkout right at about 12:01 PM, the cart showed the item sold out.

 

Wow. 12:01 PM.

 

I was bummed, but still ordered Hexfire, Dice/Cards. 

I payed cirka 15.5 pounds extra and bought Hexfire from a secondary seller (those 15-16 pounds are for freight, the actual price the same, and if I had placed a larger order of 200 Pounds plus, it would have been free freight as well just like GW and same price). I see my Norwegian seller (Tabletopbattles) is now sold out too. Last night at around 3am when I ordered mine they had 3 left. But I guess my point is that if someone else here wants the Hexfire box, which seems a prety sweet deal to me; then you should all trawl the net right now for 2 party sellers. As to the new ultra cynical GW practice of deliberately having only a fragment of battle boxes that are actually wanted by the market on sale, well, they do it for a reason (just like newer paints that are designed to be dried out within a year, so you have to buy more often, while I still have several citadel paints from the 90's when I played High Elves that are still in pretty much top shape) and it is a shame indeed (but what can you do but accept it if you play 40K ?).

Edited August 8, 2021 by Iron Sage

[Irate Khornate]

Not sure if it has been said or not, but Malicious Volleys is still in the codex so that's pretty awesome

 

Exalted Sorcerers finally get sigil of corruption

Edited August 8, 2021 by Irate Khornate

[WarriorFish]

That's good news, this codex is shaping up rather nicely :) Somewhat unexpected but that's why you hope for the best but expect the worst :lol:

[Ulfast]

I ordered from my local gamestore and was lucky to get both the hexfire box and the codex. And my friend got a box too so we will split with each other as he wants the grey knights. But now all is sold out so I guess we where lucky. I´m really looking forward to play my TS again as I have not painted or played with them in over a year. Even yesterday I finished a squad of 10 tzaangors which I started for over a year ago. Felt good. No time to paint second rhino.

[Ahzek451]

The more I read this book, the more I understand that the amount of freedom and choice is a small deception. To elaborate, this book has so many options and choices it can make anybody's head spin. But there are so many subtle rules inserted everywhere that limits a lot of things that could otherwise be easily missed. This is one of those codex books that, a new player(or a cheater) could easily miss something. A lot of strats are like this, a few relics and a few psychic powers(a few that require 6+ models for the ability or damage to even work). And a few changes to old powers that have new subtle restrictions(were they really necessary?) like temporal manipulation not capable of being used on vehicles anymore. In fact, there seems to be a big lack of buffs, powers and abilities that don't work on vehicles. 

Also noticed, that there are many ways to heal models(not just bring back, but heal d3 wounds), but they all have a line at the end that states: A unit may only be healed once per turn. I am taking this as, even if you heal d3 from a psychic power on magnus, and then later the same turn use a strat to heal d3 because you rolled a 9+, this is not possible. You can only ever heal once per turn. 

 

Having said that, the only unit I can so far see that can heal more than one d3 per turn is the vortex beast. As it has no limiting verbage in its natural ability to heal d3 wounds. 

Something to be mindful about. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Xenith]

Yea, has anyone found a use for the ritual that adds 6" to the range of spell effects? I can only see spells that affect a target model or unit. I assume it doesnt mean we can affect units within 6" of the target unit, however it could be argued that way. I see absolutely zero "all units within x inches" spells in the main two disciplines. 

[Ahzek451]

Yea, has anyone found a use for the ritual that adds 6" to the range of spell effects? I can only see spells that affect a target model or unit. I assume it doesnt mean we can affect units within 6" of the target unit, however it could be argued that way. I see absolutely zero "all units within x inches" spells in the main two disciplines. 

 

 

The only thing that comes to mind is astral blast. A short 12" range and you don't want it going off near friendlies. 

[Prot]

 

 

 like temporal manipulation not capable of being used on vehicles anymore. In fact, there seems to be a big lack of buffs, powers and abilities that don't work on vehicles. 

 

Uhg, seriously? That's brutal. I really thought we'd finally see some love for the Daemon Engines, or vehicles. I mean we don't get a Warpsmith, or a Techpriest, and this would be an interesting way to have an army that might encourage more survivable vehicles. But oh well...

 

Multi heals not being a thing is also strange. I didn't know you couldn't heal something more than once.

 

This is another nail in the Magnus coffin. I did guess quite a few things, but one thing I was worried about was Magnus and I'm still leaning towards him being a non-competitive option. T7, no multi heal, no -1 to hit (I thought maybe like Belakor) and the new Warp time can't affect him. 

 

Is his reroll 1's in the psychic phase still there? I did really like that.

 

I haven't read any reviews yet, just caught the odd video, but on the surface the number one thing I'm liking so far is actually a tie between the Infernal Master, and the Scarab Occult termies which are just fantastic models.

 

Rubrics are looking a little disappointing to me. I'm not sure if they're really work it, yet.

 

Also of note is doing a psychic secondary. One thing I've never really done is use them to cast an action secondary. I just hated the idea of it being outright cancelled but at least it can be leveraged now to gain a command point (I think) and also do other things (shoot, etc.) 

[Ahzek451]

Magnus is a much better psyker, and his defense went down ever so slightly.

 

He now never perils, can re-roll all psychic tests and deny, adds +2 to tests and deny at full strength and +1 if 9 wounds or less. Has built in -1 damage. Gaze does 3d3 on 11+ now. 1 extra attack, his blade no longer makes spawn but instead does extra d3 mortal if a model is wounded and not killed. Same aura re-roll as morty. Can benefit from cabalastic focus twice.

 

So, his flexibility is better, and no longer hogs some of the best defensive spells. Now he will just probably use the -1 to hit spell. But defense wise...that's about it. -1 damage, 4++, and possible -1 to hit.

 

My opinion is that he is more of a glass cannon as far as big scary daemon primarchs go. And with 8 attacks now and all the spells, I dont think he needs a sweep. In a matchup between himself and morty, in my tests Magnus beats him every time. But as far setting up our lord on the table and attempting to survive from focused fire...still gonna bet on morty every day.

 

Also mind you. He still benefits from brotherhood, so really he is +3 to tests and +2 even if he had 1 wound.

 

For as big as he is, I do wish he had a couple extra wounds or T8. No change here. Could have done with a native re-roll saves of 1.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Skerr]

At first I was a bit bummed at Otherworldy Presence,but Ahriman did get another wound, he gets the baked in +1 to cast he used to have and now reroll tests, happy with that.

 

I too am very curious how AID plays out on the battlefield along with all the other stuff rubricae got

[Plague _Lord]

5++ toting rhinos seem like the big winner here, oh and 5++ dreads seem solid for a backfield lascannon unit.

Min sized squads of rubrics with the cannon look decent.

 

And losing out on the Cabal points by allying in deamons doesn't seem as bad as losing the DG bonus so soup is still a thing.