Preparing for our 9:ed codex

[Ahzek451]

At first I was a bit bummed at Otherworldy Presence,but Ahriman did get another wound, he gets the baked in +1 to cast he used to have and now reroll tests, happy with that.

 

I too am very curious how AID plays out on the battlefield along with all the other stuff rubricae got

The biggest downside to ahriman is that according to the verbage, if he is your warlord, this prevents anyone from taking a cult relic for some reason.....

 

And if he is not, there is no way he can get access to his own warlord trait.

 

Note having ahriman as a warlord does not prevent access to cults or even access to a cult warlord trait. Just that cults relic.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Prot]

That's weird, and if that's the case I can't imagine GW not FAQ'ing it. 

 

I tried to get some time in to see some Batreps on youtube, and looked in on 3 (I did not watch 100% of all of them) and in them the Thousand Sons lost every match vs Grey Knights. I'm not sure if this is bad play/funsy play or if it will continue to be the bane of TS to have an uphill battle against GK in 9th. I'm not sure what to make of it, just an observation.

 

I do like the 5++ across the board. It does make certain builds a little tiny bit better with TS than other Chaos types.... like Hellbrutes for example look very good now and I always used them in my Black Legion anyway. It does suck you can't heal a Dread, but what can you do?

 

I think what I've seen of Relics/WL traits that these instantly become very difficult to decide on and will possibly give us a lot of play in the codex since some seem very suited to certain build types. 

[Xenith]

I tried to get some time in to see some Batreps on youtube, and looked in on 3 (I did not watch 100% of all of them) and in them the Thousand Sons lost every match vs Grey Knights. I'm not sure if this is bad play/funsy play or if it will continue to be the bane of TS to have an uphill battle against GK in 9th. I'm not sure what to make of it, just an observation.

 

 

Well that is the TS versus the army who in the fluff (and now crunch) are designed to hard counter them. We might have more luck vs Gravis spam, Ork [Ramshackle] vehicle spam etc. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

I tried to get some time in to see some Batreps on youtube, and looked in on 3 (I did not watch 100% of all of them) and in them the Thousand Sons lost every match vs Grey Knights. I'm not sure if this is bad play/funsy play or if it will continue to be the bane of TS to have an uphill battle against GK in 9th. I'm not sure what to make of it, just an observation.

 

 

Well that is the TS versus the army who in the fluff (and now crunch) are designed to hard counter them. We might have more luck vs Gravis spam, Ork [Ramshackle] vehicle spam etc. 

 

On TTT, Chef lost because he made one key mistake (picking a wrong Secondary) and because Lawrence was rolling like crazy on his Aegis. Still only lost by 1 point. I'd call that a solid performance, given that there was a world-class tournament player running the GK.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

On another note, with stratagems like the new Soul Reap, Scarab Occult can get even scarier than we've been shown so far, and since GW seems to want us to play at least one 10 man unit as a hammer, this should work nicely.

 

Been working on building a new Scarab-focused list since the reviews dropped and I like the idea of having 10 w/2 Soulreapers and 2 Hellfyres, and then 5 with a Heavy Warpflamer/Hellfyre.

 

Then 3 Terminator Sorcerers to go with them and an Exalted to lead the rest of the list (one of the Termie Sorcerers is his Thrall).

 

Still leaves room for some 5 or 10 man Rubrics scattered around and maybe some kind of vehicle.....since I no longer have to ban most vehicles from my list because they lack an invuln.

 

Don Hooson's Rhino-based TS list from the Goonhammer review also looks terrifying.....I just don't want to buy that many Rhinos. :)

[Ahzek451]

I would not be too concerned about the battle reports. Having watched all 3, it was clear that none of them were any where close to playing with some of the best toys and options available to us. There were many mistakes and many missed opportunities to use fantastic stratagems. And yeah, Oh chef......

Keep  in mind, us vs. grey knights is a niche pairing. Grey knights pretty much lose out on their new gimmick most of the time unless they face us. A 5++ to mortal and +1 to deny hurts is very situational, and honestly under the right player we should be able to pull ahead. So if anything, grey knights lose out on the whole. Now imagine us vs. everyone else. I look forward to a battle report vs. drukhari and mechanicus. 

[MillionsSons]

I’m very worried about Magnus. -1 damage is good but:

 

- no 3++ anymore (weaver is nerfed)

- heal strat is on unmodified 9+, so even Magnus is unlikely to trigger it. Huge nerf here again

- the third heal is situational, need a Mutalisk, be within 12”, and come at the expense of casting 1 spell...

 

Oh and he doesn’t allow other psyker to reroll 1s on psychic test. Another nerf

Edited August 9, 2021 by MillionsSons

[MillionsSons]

Overall there are good things in the codex but also an impressive number of nerfs. Most of our spells are 18” range now. We were already struggling with the range and now its going to be even worse.

 

We dont have much way to avoid being slaughtered in close combat expect screening...

[MillionsSons]

 

At first I was a bit bummed at Otherworldy Presence,but Ahriman did get another wound, he gets the baked in +1 to cast he used to have and now reroll tests, happy with that.

 

I too am very curious how AID plays out on the battlefield along with all the other stuff rubricae got

The biggest downside to ahriman is that according to the verbage, if he is your warlord, this prevents anyone from taking a cult relic for some reason.....

 

And if he is not, there is no way he can get access to his own warlord trait.

 

Note having ahriman as a warlord does not prevent access to cults or even access to a cult warlord trait. Just that cults relic.

 

There is zero reason to select Ahriman as the warlord. Competitive wise. I feel it was already the case before anyway.

Fluff wise it’s an absurdity obviously

[Ahzek451]

I’m very worried about Magnus. -1 damage is good but:

 

- no 3++ anymore (weaver is nerfed)

- heal strat is on unmodified 9+, so even Magnus is unlikely to trigger it. Huge nerf here again

- the third heal is situational, need a Mutalisk, be within 12”, and come at the expense of casting 1 spell...

Like I mentioned, all the heal abilities, be it spell, or strat have a line at the end that says "healed only once per turn" So I think magnus can only ever heal one d3 no matter the source per turn. Your best bet in this case is using the temporal spell. 

 

Magnus is a beast, he is a better psyker and combat monster than he was, but overall he is more of a glass cannon. Capable of dealing more damage, and has more utility, but no double move spell, and limited to one heal. But I do think competitively he will remain on the shelf. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ahzek451

[MillionsSons]

Magnus is a much better psyker, and his defense went down ever so slightly.

 

He now never perils, can re-roll all psychic tests and deny, adds +2 to tests and deny at full strength and +1 if 9 wounds or less. Has built in -1 damage. Gaze does 3d3 on 11+ now. 1 extra attack, his blade no longer makes spawn but instead does extra d3 mortal if a model is wounded and not killed. Same aura re-roll as morty. Can benefit from cabalastic focus twice.

 

So, his flexibility is better, and no longer hogs some of the best defensive spells. Now he will just probably use the -1 to hit spell. But defense wise...that's about it. -1 damage, 4++, and possible -1 to hit.

 

My opinion is that he is more of a glass cannon as far as big scary daemon primarchs go. And with 8 attacks now and all the spells, I dont think he needs a sweep. In a matchup between himself and morty, in my tests Magnus beats him every time. But as far setting up our lord on the table and attempting to survive from focused fire...still gonna bet on morty every day.

 

Also mind you. He still benefits from brotherhood, so really he is +3 to tests and +2 even if he had 1 wound.

 

For as big as he is, I do wish he had a couple extra wounds or T8. No change here. Could have done with a native re-roll saves of 1.

 

Having Magnus more fragile than before, while meta is power creeping everywhere, is really the last thing we wanted...

I dont understand Goonhammer review, not mentionning that he his now limited to 4++, can be heal only once (other two ways being situational/unlikely..)

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Overall there are good things in the codex but also an impressive number of nerfs. Most of our spells are 18” range now. We were already struggling with the range and now its going to be even worse.

 

We dont have much way to avoid being slaughtered in close combat expect screening...

 

Multiple Rhinos with 5++, Inferno Combi, and Inferno Combi-Melta can screen, move-block, and bully charge without losing firepower, plus pop Warpflame Gargoyles every once in a while.

 

Combine with the Goonhammer idea of a 30 man brick of Cultists with a 4++ from Weaver and we can create quite a frustration machine. Backing with countercharges and firepower from Helbrutes and Mutaliths could be interesting.

 

There have been nerfs, but the new options have potential.

Edited August 9, 2021 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Ahzek451]

Our codex is very tzeentchy indeed. Truly feels like the vast majority of it sounds good at a glance, but everything has a a caveat of some sort. Where a lot of other books simply give you something for a whole whatever, turn lets say, darn near everything has an extra bit of rule that limits it.

Easy examples: temporal -no longer works on vehicles.
unwavering phalanx: only works in shooting phase.
Dark blessing: should have a line that says a roll of a 6 succeeds. But with current wording, will not work on toughness 6+ models.
baleful devolution: requires a target of 6+ models. 

Just be mindful of all the verbage. I noticed watching the grey knight vs. sons battle reports, a few I have seen make mistakes with this. But..its still brand new. 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Ahzek451

[MillionsSons]

Cultist and Rhinos

[Prot]

I still think for now I will reduce my SoT size down to 5 per, just to generate extra Cabal Points, have the extra power, and the cost of that Damage reducing Strat is considerably reduced. (1 cp vs 3 cp?)

 

Still not doing Magnus in my meta. I'll pull him out for funsies but I've never been a bash brothers kind of player, and with him never getting better than a 3+ and losing Warp time (confirmed), I can't "yo-yo" him like I used to.  Also disappointed he appears to have lost the reroll 1's in the psychic phase. In games where it was difficult to get him in a good spot, that aura always made him useful to someone with the nickname, "Snake Eyes Jones". (Unfortunately not a joke!)

 

The Cults seemed slight altered. In my game I did take Cult of Knowledge using the new abilities... and it was actually really really decent. I used to use Cult of Time all the time in my patrol prior to this nerf, and I took Duplicity for the battalion. So I just wanted something different. Empyric Trespass having a 24" range and a detachment wide effect of re-roll 1's to wounds is really decent for massed firepower like I prefer to use. It also gives you an edge in Close Combat if I recall (the effect is from Psychic phase to psychic phase.)

 

The Secondary selection might be where I'm seeing a lot of hidden value that I don't see many people talking about. An army with a single psyker is in trouble. Although an army like Grey Knights will make most of these VERY hard to pull off.

[Ahzek451]

 

 Also disappointed he appears to have lost the reroll 1's in the psychic phase. In games where it was difficult to get him in a good spot, that aura always made him useful to someone with the nickname, "Snake Eyes Jones". (Unfortunately not a joke!)

 

It was nice, but the good news is there at least a lot of ways to help mitigate this. Cult of prohpecy, glimpse of eternity infernal pact, cabal abilities, athenian scrolls, and I'm sure I am missing something. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Cultist and Rhinos

Not really the type of models I chose Thousand Sons to play for...

The Cultists would be a single unit. Each Rhino would likely hold 2 squads of 5 Rubrics with an Icon and a Soulreaper each, and there's plenty of points left over for other stuff. On the extreme end, Hooson's list has 40 Rubricae, 2 Infernal Masters, and an Exalted in addition to the Rhinos. Actually reminds me of a very old-school TSons list from back in 3rd from when we didn't HAVE much else and had to use Rhino wall+Rubric spam with occasional Terminators.

 

 

 Also disappointed he appears to have lost the reroll 1's in the psychic phase. In games where it was difficult to get him in a good spot, that aura always made him useful to someone with the nickname, "Snake Eyes Jones". (Unfortunately not a joke!)

 

It was nice, but the good news is there at least a lot of ways to help mitigate this. Cult of prohpecy, glimpse of eternity infernal pact, cabal abilities, athenian scrolls, and I'm sure I am missing something. 

 

I believe one of the Legion Command upgrades helps you reroll 1's specifically too.

Edited August 9, 2021 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Grendaxe]

So yesterday and today i went over the codex and came up with some sort of list. Haven't tried it out yet of course, way too much stuff to remember without the book in hand.

 

Things i liked:

I took 2 exalted sorcerers and didn't feel bad about it!! 

I really like the look of our relics and exalted upgrades (keep in mind with these, each upgrade only allowed once in the army). Nothing too game breaking but i feel there are some nice ones available to give the edge over other HQ options. It might bore me in a couple of games from now but for now i like it. I've made a very mean mortal wound machine and the other is defensive beast running around buffing and slapping everything that comes close. Can't wait to try them out.

 

Neutral:

Ended up with 2 squads of 10 Rubrics and 1 unit of 5 scarabs and 2x10 Tzaangors. I hope its enough board control and that it has some staying power to protect the sorcerers but i'm a little scared to be honest. For this reason i did not want to go for the 5-man rubric squads because i fear my chars will get sniped too easily. This army comes crashing down like a house of cards if i start losing my any or all of my 4 HQ units (ahriman,2 exalteds and 1 deamon prince). (also have 1 infernal master but he doesn't matter)

 

Feels like the Rubrics are a bit overpriced compared to SoT (or the SoT are too cheap if ur a  ). A unit of 10 rubrics is 220 points while 5 SoT are 215 points with soulreapers.

They are both obsec but the SoT is both in ranged and melee much better. I hope the more wounds on the rubrics justify taking them over more scarabs.

 

The Bad for me:

1.Our spells are waaaaaaaaaay too tame/lame for my taste. Especially the cult ones. Just ~30 very meh spells that are in my opinion not exciting at all.

I get why they do it, they don't want to risk TS patrol detachment soup in every chaos list like we had in 8th because psychic powers are not locked behind "pure TS" lists.

But still i don't like it at all. Feels very anti-fluffy.

Example: the +1 to hit (prescience) is gone and instead we get a +1 attack for a unit. Another buff for stuff we don't really want to do in the first place. Feels lame.

 

2.Scraped Magnus out of the list. At first i was under the impression he still had the 1 RR on psychic test, but i was surprised to see it gone.

So i was looking at the data-sheet wondering what is he doing for the army? A full reroll to hit for a unit within 6'' or reroll 1 to hit for core in a 6'' area?

And i was thinking that's not what i need, especially not with that range. And then the other stuff hit me as well: No warptime, no 3++ invul save, his super smite averaged to 3D3.

 

In the end i just figured he does very little for the army and is for 450 he is waaaay too frail to risk it.

And even if your lucky he has some wounds left, like discussed above, you cant really heal him.

At the same time I have much more options in the way of exalted sorcerers to cast difficult powers and these are a lot more durable.

 

 

Overall i quite like the feel of the book although it has some pretty significant downsides but a LOT better then our 8th edition codex i think.

Bit complex at times and will take some time to get the hang of but i don't mind that all.

I just hope that continuing forward, this is the power level standard and not Admech or Drukhari level.

[Prot]

I don't think the SoT are too cheap. I find them comparable to the Blightlords. (Give or take a few survivability differences vs. being obsec.).

 

The Rubrics are definitely a little lacking here. I've got another game tonight with the new rules, and I'm thinking of going down from 3 squads.

[Thaelion Hexis]

So yesterday and today i went over the codex and came up with some sort of list. Haven't tried it out yet of course, way too much stuff to remember without the book in hand.

 

Things i liked:

I took 2 exalted sorcerers and didn't feel bad about it!!

I really like the look of our relics and exalted upgrades (keep in mind with these, each upgrade only allowed once in the army). Nothing too game breaking but i feel there are some nice ones available to give the edge over other HQ options. It might bore me in a couple of games from now but for now i like it. I've made a very mean mortal wound machine and the other is defensive beast running around buffing and slapping everything that comes close. Can't wait to try them out.

 

Neutral:

Ended up with 2 squads of 10 Rubrics and 1 unit of 5 scarabs and 2x10 Tzaangors. I hope its enough board control and that it has some staying power to protect the sorcerers but i'm a little scared to be honest. For this reason i did not want to go for the 5-man rubric squads because i fear my chars will get sniped too easily. This army comes crashing down like a house of cards if i start losing my any or all of my 4 HQ units (ahriman,2 exalteds and 1 deamon prince). (also have 1 infernal master but he doesn't matter)

 

Feels like the Rubrics are a bit overpriced compared to SoT (or the SoT are too cheap if ur a ). A unit of 10 rubrics is 220 points while 5 SoT are 215 points with soulreapers.

They are both obsec but the SoT is both in ranged and melee much better. I hope the more wounds on the rubrics justify taking them over more scarabs.

 

The Bad for me:

1.Our spells are waaaaaaaaaay too tame/lame for my taste. Especially the cult ones. Just ~30 very meh spells that are in my opinion not exciting at all.

I get why they do it, they don't want to risk TS patrol detachment soup in every chaos list like we had in 8th because psychic powers are not locked behind "pure TS" lists.

But still i don't like it at all. Feels very anti-fluffy.

Example: the +1 to hit (prescience) is gone and instead we get a +1 attack for a unit. Another buff for stuff we don't really want to do in the first place. Feels lame.

 

2.Scraped Magnus out of the list. At first i was under the impression he still had the 1 RR on psychic test, but i was surprised to see it gone.

So i was looking at the data-sheet wondering what is he doing for the army? A full reroll to hit for a unit within 6'' or reroll 1 to hit for core in a 6'' area?

And i was thinking that's not what i need, especially not with that range. And then the other stuff hit me as well: No warptime, no 3++ invul save, his super smite averaged to 3D3.

 

In the end i just figured he does very little for the army and is for 450 he is waaaay too frail to risk it.

And even if your lucky he has some wounds left, like discussed above, you cant really heal him.

At the same time I have much more options in the way of exalted sorcerers to cast difficult powers and these are a lot more durable.

 

 

Overall i quite like the feel of the book although it has some pretty significant downsides but a LOT better then our 8th edition codex i think.

Bit complex at times and will take some time to get the hang of but i don't mind that all.

I just hope that continuing forward, this is the power level standard and not Admech or Drukhari level.

You may want to double check that prescience bit. We still functionally have that power, named Presage

 

You maybe thinking about that double shoot strategem, which is now +1 shot with bolters?

[Ahzek451]

Under the new book I too feel ther rubrics ar a bit costly. But with SoT being so good with bolters, I may be more inspired to dedicate rubrics to using warp flames.

 

I wouldn't say all of our spells are too tame, but about half are. Feel more like clunky fillers with very niche rolls.

 

One spell only works on warp flamers if you have them which is odd to be so specific. Feels like this should have been more of a strat.

 

Perplex is an odd one. I get the idea is to pick something shooty to keep it from shooting your long ranged support in the back, but 24" is no small number and, in essence I dont think this would really cause your opponent to be unhappy. Because if you have to be within 24" to cast it then.....I dont see this power being used much. I geuss I WAS going to shoot my artillery at your forgefiend...but I geuss I'll settle for obliterating your rubrics or SoT instead. Oh darn. I change my mind, this is a really dumb spell.

 

Psychic stalk is a lot like dark blessing. Very niche. Both powers I dont see anyone taking normally. Maybe in certain cases where you get matched with an opponent with an important toughness 3 character or something with a lot of value but with low leadership and happens to NOT be a character, monster, or vehicle. In which case you use the strat to swap something out for it.

 

Desecration of worlds, another anti-hard spell. It is ok, but would much prefer if an additional caveat that if you target a single model vehicle or monster, then it works on a 4+. Or at least -2 to movement.

 

 

Cults:

 

Manipulation- attempted possession.-2 to enemy psykers. We have enough psychic dominating abilities. This is too niche yet again. 1 mortal wound. This is an instance where I wish I could smack the one of the rule writers with rolled up newspaper (kidding of course, sorta) and yell at them for a missed opportunity to give a very fluffy power where a psyker can take control of an enemy weapon and have them use it against themselves). Cult of manipulation for crying out loud. This is a very thousand sons thing to do.

 

 

Can't really complain about the other cult powers.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Ahzek451

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Under the new book I too feel ther rubrics ar a bit costly. But with SoT being so good with bolters, I may be more inspired to dedicate rubrics to using warp flames.

 

I wouldn't say all of our spells are too tame, but about half are. Feel more like clunky fillers with very niche rolls.

 

One spell only works on warp flamers if you have them which is odd to be so specific. Feels like this should have been more of a strat.

 

Perplex is an odd one. I get the idea is to pick something shooty to keep it from shooting your long ranged support in the back, but 24" is no small number and, in essence I dont think this would really cause your opponent to be unhappy. Because if you have to be within 24" to cast it then.....I dont see this power being used much. I geuss I WAS going to shoot my artillery at your forgefiend...but I geuss I'll settle for obliterating your rubrics or SoT instead. Oh darn. I change my mind, this is a really dumb spell.

 

Psychic stalk is a lot like dark blessing. Very niche. Both powers I dont see anyone taking normally. Maybe in certain cases where you get matched with an opponent with an important toughness 3 character or something with a lot of value but with low leadership and happens to NOT be a character, monster, or vehicle. In which case you use the strat to swap something out for it.

 

Desecration of worlds, another anti-hard spell. It is ok, but would much prefer if an additional caveat that if you target a single model vehicle or monster, then it works on a 4+. Or at least -2 to movement.

 

.

Not saying Perplex is an all star or anything, but I'd use it while locked in CC to mess up their nearby ranged units....or maybe right before I charged. Either way, the caster isn't an eligible target at that point. Could also do the old Ahriman tactic that people used to do where he would fly up, unload a bunch of stuff and then Warp Time himself back to safety. In both cases, it's something you could add to what you were going to do anyway and could win games if used on something with indirect fire that your opponent was counting on to clear an objective, stop a secondary before your Command Phase, etc.

 

Could also be combined with the "yeet" spell if you're already playing Duplicity. Again, only useful if it's something you were going to do anyway or to mess with backline fire support if you're already committing to getting deep into the enemy's line, such as against Guard, etc.

 

Totally agreed on Dark Blessing. They just copy/pasted the dumpster fire that is Gift of Chaos and called it a day.

Edited August 10, 2021 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Ahzek451]

 

 

Under the new book I too feel ther rubrics ar a bit costly. But with SoT being so good with bolters, I may be more inspired to dedicate rubrics to using warp flames.

 

I wouldn't say all of our spells are too tame, but about half are. Feel more like clunky fillers with very niche rolls.

 

One spell only works on warp flamers if you have them which is odd to be so specific. Feels like this should have been more of a strat.

 

Perplex is an odd one. I get the idea is to pick something shooty to keep it from shooting your long ranged support in the back, but 24" is no small number and, in essence I dont think this would really cause your opponent to be unhappy. Because if you have to be within 24" to cast it then.....I dont see this power being used much. I geuss I WAS going to shoot my artillery at your forgefiend...but I geuss I'll settle for obliterating your rubrics or SoT instead. Oh darn. I change my mind, this is a really dumb spell.

 

Psychic stalk is a lot like dark blessing. Very niche. Both powers I dont see anyone taking normally. Maybe in certain cases where you get matched with an opponent with an important toughness 3 character or something with a lot of value but with low leadership and happens to NOT be a character, monster, or vehicle. In which case you use the strat to swap something out for it.

 

Desecration of worlds, another anti-hard spell. It is ok, but would much prefer if an additional caveat that if you target a single model vehicle or monster, then it works on a 4+. Or at least -2 to movement.

 

.

Not saying Perplex is an all star or anything, but I'd use it while locked in CC to mess up their nearby ranged units....or maybe right before I charged. Either way, the caster isn't an eligible target at that point. Could also do the old Ahriman tactic that people used to do where he would fly up, unload a bunch of stuff and then Warp Time himself back to safety. In both cases, it's something you could add to what you were going to do anyway and could win games if used on something with indirect fire that your opponent was counting on to clear an objective, stop a secondary before your Command Phase, etc.

 

Could also be combined with the "yeet" spell if you're already playing Duplicity. Again, only useful if it's something you were going to do anyway or to mess with backline fire support if you're already committing to getting deep into the enemy's line, such as against Guard, etc.

I see your point, in theory. It would require some testing. But in 9th, with smaller boards, more incentive to be midfield, armies that close the gap quicker, the days of sitting in the back with something seems few and far between. It's hard to imagine where the target of perplex isnt already or can easily move itself in range of another target within 24". And I would mean the rest of your army that may not be in combat. Certainly a tool in the toolbox, but it's that weird funky tool is only useful in super rare occasions.

 

It would be funny if you teleported a psyker with this and targeted a warlord titan in a big game on a large table haha. Then it would be insanely useful.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Ahzek451]

I think the only real complaint is that once we get some games, we may find that we just wish that all the tools in our tool box were more equal in usefulness. But at the end of the day it won't matter much because we won't be able to or even want to, cast everything in a game. Because its likely most of us will just be casting the top powers, and the rest will be smite anyway.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

....I see your point, in theory. It would require some testing. But in 9th, with smaller boards, more incentive to be midfield, armies that close the gap quicker, the days of sitting in the back with something seems few and far between. It's hard to imagine where the target of perplex isnt already or can easily move itself in range of another target within 24.

Manticores, Basilisks, Mek Gunz, Shadow Weavers, and Fire Prisms come to mind, but yeah, niche situations, especially since some of those can move....though they may have to enter LOS. It's basically an anti-artillery spell or an awkward combo with the range increasing effects that we have for either guns or powers.

 

Another note: Perplex might be a good candidate to switch into if needed. Don't take it at the start, but bring it online mid game if an opportunity presents.

Edited August 10, 2021 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch