Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I actually see some potential for this, but it is dependent on strats. At the moment our rules give us one of the only counter-interrupt strats for multi-charging, letting you charge 2 units in and punish your opponent interrupting you by activating the 6+ save mortal wound bounce on top of having a banner near by. It makes units like Bladeguard actually deadly as door stops if properly supported. Being in assault with +1 attack will make that a lot more efficient when using Divine Push, so you can Divine Push some bladeguard out of an Impulser turn 1 and use Will to get vanguard vets a charge turn 1.

 

But that's assuming we keep those strats to stack with this, which is not a sure thing. Either way, at the very least it might make fight first a smidge more valuable as an aura buff.

[Medjugorje]

vicious ripsote is not that great. there are 18 wounds in average to kill ONE single enemy bladeguard. 

[Medjugorje]

At the moment I expect the "Blood Angels" Treatment. 

 

Everything gets better except the most important things which hold us competitive... And because of those nerfs we are out of competitive play.

Sword Brethren will be very good but not that outstanding to handle top tier lists.

[Palmu]

Every day, I thank God that I didn't fall for the competitive 40k meme and can actually enjoy the game for what it is.

 

To me, the showcased abilities are H Y P E for the sole reason that they exist in the first place, to give some nice spice to my matches.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Palmu

[Trignama]

The hate against AAC already, lol, lack of imagination is real. 

I don't know about your games, but in mine, most of my army is in combat by turn 2. Most Obj's are mid board, and if you aren't moving to score on them, you are losing the game, T2 is where my army thrives, and NOW, I don't have to worry about just have ONE unit in the assault doctrine, my whole army has it from the get go for when it matters. (Presumably, there might be unit restrictions we don't know about yet).

This also makes sitting in the tac doctrine for 2 turns completely viable, as you'll have the assault doctrine up if / when you need it anyway, meaning you could make autobolter armed intercessor / crusader squads a thing of beauty. 2 Turns of ap -1 assault 3 bolters, and then that same unit can charge, switch to the assault doctrine, and have all of their attacks always be at ap-1 and +1A while they are in combat? To me that sounds like a DEVASTATING amount of ap-1 dakka you can get from relatively cheap units (Intercessors)

And that is ONLY considering how that vow works and basic marine weaponry, we have NO IDEA how this can / will combo with anything else in the book to make it even better (maybe a way to make the army move faster so you have more options to get into combat earlier in the game?). 

We simply do not know yet. 

Very surprising hearing this complaining about rules from people who claim to play this game competitively, coulda swore that effort took critical thinking skills.

[Medjugorje]

Against TS we can use the Stratagem (SM codex) to get rerolls to hit and then rerolls to wound of 1 seems pretty nice. 

I am very eager to see the other two. Especially Uphold the honor of the emperor. It used to be a 6++ - I hope we will get something better. Like light cover even if we are not in cover or FNP or Obsec for all units.... something like that.

[Hit0k1ri]

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Hit0k1ri

[Banjulhu]

The hate against AAC already, lol, lack of imagination is real. 

 

I don't know about your games, but in mine, most of my army is in combat by turn 2. Most Obj's are mid board, and if you aren't moving to score on them, you are losing the game, T2 is where my army thrives, and NOW, I don't have to worry about just have ONE unit in the assault doctrine, my whole army has it from the get go for when it matters. (Presumably, there might be unit restrictions we don't know about yet).

 

This also makes sitting in the tac doctrine for 2 turns completely viable, as you'll have the assault doctrine up if / when you need it anyway, meaning you could make autobolter armed intercessor / crusader squads a thing of beauty. 2 Turns of ap -1 assault 3 bolters, and then that same unit can charge, switch to the assault doctrine, and have all of their attacks always be at ap-1 and +1A while they are in combat? To me that sounds like a DEVASTATING amount of ap-1 dakka you can get from relatively cheap units (Intercessors)

 

And that is ONLY considering how that vow works and basic marine weaponry, we have NO IDEA how this can / will combo with anything else in the book to make it even better (maybe a way to make the army move faster so you have more options to get into combat earlier in the game?). 

 

We simply do not know yet. 

 

Very surprising hearing this complaining about rules from people who claim to play this game competitively, coulda swore that effort took critical thinking skills.

They could also have been clever and have stratagems linked to having a certain vow that gives buffs in a more limited duration/area when the vow is active (like the combat buff from the space wolf or blood super doctrine for one unit for a round)

Edited October 5, 2021 by Banjulhu

[BitsHammer]

I am confused to be reading that people reading about an ASSAULT ARMY getting an ASSAULT BUFF EVERY TURN and saying it's bad? WHERE IS YOUR +ZEAL+? Edited October 5, 2021 by Fulkes

[Acebaur]

At the moment I expect the "Blood Angels" Treatment. 

 

Everything gets better except the most important things which hold us competitive... And because of those nerfs we are out of competitive play.

Sword Brethren will be very good but not that outstanding to handle top tier lists.

 

Stop being such a negative nancy. 

[9x19 Parabellum]

To each his own, regarding the Castellan, but I'm not a fan.

 

To me he looks more like a Techmarine than a baroque armored knight.

 

Everything else, though, I like.

[BitsHammer]

To each his own, regarding the Castellan, but I'm not a fan.

 

To me he looks more like a Techmarine than a baroque armored knight.

 

Everything else, though, I like.

For some of us that Blanche Templar art defined Warhammer 40k for us.

[jaxom]

I watched some of John Lennon's games during the NOGT coverage over the weekend. He seemed to do well with them. I think AAC would have benefited his strategy. I can't find his exact list, but the earlier version of it he tested on Art of War did not have Crusader's Helm.

[TheOneTrueZon]

For some of us that Blanche Templar art defined Warhammer 40k for us.

 

Indeed. Mr. Chonky Chest here is something that I never thought would ever materialize itself. It's SO 40k. I don't care what it is, the skull pauldrons, the tubes EVERYWHERE. It sings to all the notes that brought me here in the first place.

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

For some of us that Blanche Templar art defined Warhammer 40k for us.

Indeed. Mr. Chonky Chest here is something that I never thought would ever materialize itself. It's SO 40k. I don't care what it is, the skull pauldrons, the tubes EVERYWHERE. It sings to all the notes that brought me here in the first place.

It’s literally 40K in a model… and I want 10 of them

[JAG Templar]

Hmmm just being realistic (and at the risk of being called negative!), those two vows in isolation are hot garbage. What we don’t know is how they interact with other rules in the army and what the other two vows look like.

 

If these vows do replace super doctrine then it feels a bit on the weak side but plenty more things to be revealed before we get a feel for BTs overall rule set.

 

Amazingly, there have been very few rules leaks, so we actually have no idea what Templars will be like when the supplement drops

[Brother Sidonius]

I think our competitive brethren have over looked a couple of powerful applications of the Vows.

Firstly, you get to choose your Vow at the start of every game adding crazy tactical flexibility! I actually removed that from my homegrown rules for a while because I was worried it wasn’t balanced.

Secondly, AAC only kicks in once you’re in Engagaement Range. Your Terminators can rapid fire with their stormbolters in the Tactical doctrine then charge in and fight in the Assault doctrine. Our relics and stratagems couldn’t do that!

 

Edit: And no way this is our Super Doctrine. This is going to be our Inner Circle

Edited October 5, 2021 by Brother Sidonius

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

While I don't have the distinction of being the 5th ranked player in all of Germany, my own humble opinion is that these are fine. Certainly better than army-wide reroll 1s to hit, which is a worse buff for pure math reasons and boring besides. In fact, the more I look at these, the more intrigued I am.

 

Speed 8 terminators?

Permanent AP 2 chainswords?
Speed 9 crusaders before advance?

 

Like, setting aside the obvious turn 1 charge from Outriders that everyone immediately thought about, or the speed 15 Vanguard vets, +3" across the board makes the army faster than Aeldar with a space marine cstat sheet. That means less need to advance, more time to shoot, and that rule doesn't keep us from retreating. To put it in another way, Crusade squads are now getting the same turn one movement as old Orks rolling a 4 to advance. If you think of it in that light it starts seeming a little more intriguing. Especially with Ork advance and charge getting changed to their WAAAGH ability.

 

Do I think these buffs are going to shoot us to the top of the cheese list? No. Not in a vacuum. But depending on other abilities they might make us as broken or more than Drakari. We just don't know. And in a vacuum they seem to easily put us on par with the new Ork codex, which is a fun place to be.

[General Strike]

I think the Accept any Challenge is awesome. I'm not a competitive player at all, and my FLGS runs what they call the biggest "un-tournament" in the state, and I plan to play in the next one with Black Wave, baby.

[Tokugawa]

The wording of AAC says "gain the bonus of assault doctrine". And Abhor don't talk about doctrine at all. The vows are not our superdoctrine. They don't conflict with or obsolete the superdoctrine. If GW remove Knight of Sigismund, we will still get some army-wide buff in assault doctrine.

[JAG Templar]

The wording of AAC says "gain the bonus of assault doctrine". And Abhor don't talk about doctrine at all. The vows are not our superdoctrine. They don't conflict with or obsolete the superdoctrine. If GW remove Knight of Sigismund, we will still get some army-wide buff in assault doctrine.

I think you may be right. There is talk online of it being Chapter Tactic plus Super Doctrine plus Vows. I guess we will find out soon enough

[Tokugawa]

 

The wording of AAC says "gain the bonus of assault doctrine". And Abhor don't talk about doctrine at all. The vows are not our superdoctrine. They don't conflict with or obsolete the superdoctrine. If GW remove Knight of Sigismund, we will still get some army-wide buff in assault doctrine.

I think you may be right. There is talk online of it being Chapter Tactic plus Super Doctrine plus Vows. I guess we will find out soon enough

The DA superdoctrine also have multiple parts and functions, but the rules of every part clearly linked to doctrines.

 

Chapter tactics is printed in Codex:space marines, not the chapter book. That is how the 9th system like. Release of new chapter supplement doesn't change it.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tokugawa

[Tokugawa]

I am glad to see the "passions" part only get some minor and situational disadvantages. It don't have anything idiot fart like "must shoot the nearest unit" or "must declare charge to all enemy unit in x inches". So the disadvantages won't force Templars players to drink one potion of poison from 4 potions.

[BitsHammer]

I am glad to see the "passions" part only get some minor and situational disadvantages. It don't have anything idiot fart like "must shoot the nearest unit" or "must declare charge to all enemy unit in x inches". So the disadvantages won't force Templars players to drink one potion of poison from 4 potions.

You mean like how we used to get pulled out of cover thanks to one of our vows and then gunned down before we could engage?

Edited October 6, 2021 by Fulkes

[Acebaur]

I think our competitive brethren have over looked a couple of powerful applications of the Vows.

Firstly, you get to choose your Vow at the start of every game adding crazy tactical flexibility! I actually removed that from my homegrown rules for a while because I was worried it wasn’t balanced.

Secondly, AAC only kicks in once you’re in Engagaement Range. Your Terminators can rapid fire with their stormbolters in the Tactical doctrine then charge in and fight in the Assault doctrine. Our relics and stratagems couldn’t do that!

 

Edit: And no way this is our Super Doctrine. This is going to be our Inner Circle

 

No, Vows are our super doctrine. But we'll have 4 to choose from and a lot of flexibility with that