Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[jaxom]

this is a MSU edition. And the crusadersquad used to be good because you couldplay him as big uniti but cheap too.... This is not going to happen with the new crusadersquad... 

 

I don't follow the tournament scene very closely, but was there something about big units of Skitarii to do something with stratagems? Is it possible the Primaris Crusader and Crusader squads may have a similar use?

[WARMASTER_]

Anyhow, I looked at the fairly recent "TG" leak rumors that were posted some months back, it had some details that I felt were good to re-read, now that we have seen the entirety of the launch box contents:

 

October and November 2021:

Complete BT release with

Ancient, Helbrecht, Grimaldus, Emperor's Champion, Seneshal, Initiates (6 Marines with Intercessor CC equipment or auto bolt rifles), 4 Neophytes (boltguns or chainsword). The Crusader kit will have options for a Sword Brother unit leader with cape, and there's a 15" AP-1 flamer.

The Sword Brother kit will have plenty of CC options and the option to make a Marshal (like with the Custodes Warden kit that gives you the option of making a Captain).

There will be two Crusader Squads: the old one that everyone knows and a new one made up exclusively of Primaris. The latter will be 5-11 Primaris Initiates, 4-8 Primaris Neophytes, and 1 Primaris Sword Brother. Neophytes will have 2 W and 2 A like other Primaris.

There'll also be a conversion/bitz/upgrade sprue that will have Templar relics on it (so-and-so's helmet, the sword of such-and-such, etc.), shotguns for Neophytes. and more customisation options like extra arms (Neophyte holding a helmet), or backpack-mounted candles. There will also be a multi-melta which will become a BT vehicle option. It'll replace the stubber on Primaris vehicles.

 

A lot of these rumors are lot older than when this particular round up was posted but it adds details that were, afaik, otherwise unknown (to most anyway). For instance the flamer had been heard about before, but not that it was specifically 15" and AP-1. Or that the crusader squad in the box would be specifically 6 marines, 4 neophytes, with a caped upgrade for a single sword brother, and that these would be armed specifcally with auto bolters or cc. Very specific details that all turned out true. It was also (? big question mark here) the first to mention the multi melta for vehicles? which we've now seen.

 

Suffice to say, I think we can trust the rest of things said here.

 

There's no mention of any second crusader kit, so I'm thinking the launch box crusader squad will be the only one we're getting. But it does mention an upgrade kit, which has shotguns for neophytes, among other things. I'm fine with this because it should mean we can turn regular intercessors and assault intercessors into crusaders for more pose variety. But we will need more pose variety for neophytes. Make a primaris scout kit, pretty please, GW?

 

Perhaps most interestingly, it mentions that the upcoming Sword brother kit will have a ton of CC options (yay!) as well as the ability to make a marshal... ooh boy, BT marshal #2? Interest piqued.

Thanks for this Reinhard, I 100% thinking you’re correct now and the launch nox is the full kit, I’m also Happy to hear about the upgrade sprue & SB box having lots of options looks like “templarising” the standard boxes Will be a breeze

 

Would anyone kindly have an actual link to the rumour that dropped here first? Seeing as everything has come true I’d like to give it a good look over

Edited September 23, 2021 by BladeOfVengeance

[WARMASTER_]

Heck, Might even wanna give some (bare) stormcast heads a try, they're marginally smaller than marine heads? Even bare marine heads look weird on scout bodies as they're so large.

 

That said, the new scouts are probably a tad taller so that might be less of an issue.

 

gaah just need to get my hands on the models so I can start fiddling with options already

The Sequitor box has so great great bare heads in it, although I’m not sure if the neck fitting will be the same

[Medjugorje]

 

 

 

:cussing hell, am I in the BT subforum?

Kudos Adelard respectable attitude we should all take a page from your book.

I've resolved to be more like Sword Brother Lucerne. His positive, good humoured attitude in Godblight is much more engaging than the moody angry Templar stereotypes.

He plays a greater role in "gate of bones" too. Seems to become a important character in the future.

We have seen him now as both an unnumbered son of Dorn and a Sword Brother of the Black Templars, I hope we get more books to show the journey between the two.

 

Sword Brother? I didnt read godblight... but is he a BT there?

[Medjugorje]

 

 

 

 

Has anybody else noticed the 5-11 initiates 4-8 neos and a sb?

Adding up to max 8 neos and 12 marines in a new crusader squad...

Or am I misreading?

That means the squad size is 10-20, not sure what the problem is?

The initiate?SB to neo amount is not equal anymore.

The older 10/10 squad used to have 10 inits and 10 neo's. Tis 20 man squad has less neo's. meaning I believe we have the first SM squad with more than 10 primaris marines.

Are you meaning Black Templars are going to get the first primaris squad which would eat full max shots from blast weapons? Woah, that is an awesome achievement.

 

Blast isn't THAT bad, I mean there is so much LOS blocking terrain, cover, and we have access to FnP rather easily (litanies, apothecary), plus, with blast, you still have to hit and wound, and it sounds like we will have 16 ablative wounds per full 20 man. 

 

 

 

sorry - but thats not the chase what makes big blobs bad. 

If you want that Marker then you have to leave cover. Its the "trading" problem. Normally (if you dont have -1dmg and FnP and Inv) you will be dead if your unit has done anything in the game ( go on a marker or even kill anything or go into the open field to screen an area).... 

 

Drukhari are good because they make X Damage for X points. For example 16 attacks S5 -3 AP hitting on 2s with 2 dmg and an option for "fight last (incubi). thats all for 80 points. Can we deal with them with that if there is enough LOS blocking terrain? Hell no.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

 

 

:cussing hell, am I in the BT subforum?

Kudos Adelard respectable attitude we should all take a page from your book.

I've resolved to be more like Sword Brother Lucerne. His positive, good humoured attitude in Godblight is much more engaging than the moody angry Templar stereotypes.

He plays a greater role in "gate of bones" too. Seems to become a important character in the future.

We have seen him now as both an unnumbered son of Dorn and a Sword Brother of the Black Templars, I hope we get more books to show the journey between the two.

 

Sword Brother? I didnt read godblight... but is he a BT there?

 

yeah he's a really interesting character in the book that i'd love to see get more exploration!

[Medjugorje]

 

 

 

 

 

:cussing hell, am I in the BT subforum?

Kudos Adelard respectable attitude we should all take a page from your book.

I've resolved to be more like Sword Brother Lucerne. His positive, good humoured attitude in Godblight is much more engaging than the moody angry Templar stereotypes.

He plays a greater role in "gate of bones" too. Seems to become a important character in the future.

We have seen him now as both an unnumbered son of Dorn and a Sword Brother of the Black Templars, I hope we get more books to show the journey between the two.

 

Sword Brother? I didnt read godblight... but is he a BT there?

 

yeah he's a really interesting character in the book that i'd love to see get more exploration!

 

do you have any details (in spoilers). I decided not to read this triology because I have so much more books i want to read but in the spoilers on reddit there is nothing about Lucerne. Can you tell me more?

[RedFox]

damn I really hope we can still run 5 men crusader squads...

[Medjugorje]

if the points will increase then I dont see them. If they stay where they are then of course.

 

But I expect a point decrease for all intercessors to the same level to our Crusadersquad. 

We will see. But honestly I really REALLY cant imagine how Primaris crusadersquads are a competitve thing.

[Tokugawa]

GW need to and will nuke 15pts classic crusader squads. To make new stuff sell. They can't survive since the very first day of making new Templars rules.

[Medjugorje]

In general Space Marines need a point reduction for all troop choices. The only thing (which I dont expect) where I can see Primaris Crusadersquads being competitive is when they are so strong that we dont need hard hitting units when we can spam Troop choices. But even Dark Angels with Obsec Terminators which all have Transhuman can do this...

Edited September 24, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Tokugawa]

I order the launch box in no hesitation. But I feel there is possibility that the most "playable" thing in the box would be the redemptor.

[Medjugorje]

I expect the Emperors Champion being a monster.

Look how strong the duel characters are right now ( SW special char, Drazhar and Succubus). If the rumor is true that he have an invul aura then he will be very competitive.

Think about 3 Redemptors with Invul all the time - not just one round right now (what is actually really really powerful)

And I think that Grimaldus and Helbrecht have VERY Big potential. I expect more then 12" range for the new Melta weapon for Helbrecht... which makes him without any other changes really powerful.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Medjugorje

[tvih]

Well, even if the Primaris Crusader Squad itself turns out meh compared to other troops in some way (like considering the 10-man minimum size), can always use the Initiate models in regular Intercessor and Assault Intercessor squads anyway. Never liked neophytes much myself. I've used them in... I dunno, only a couple of battles, and even then only a couple of models.

 

Haven't played BT in 9th (nor much of anything else either) so I hadn't even realized the oldmarine Crusader squads are so much cheaper than tacticals currently. I can definitely see them brought up. I wonder why they were that much cheaper to begin with... to make the CC loadout at least remotely viable? Still odd.

Edited September 24, 2021 by tvih

[Tokugawa]

"5+ inv save to core infantry units in melee" could also be an "inv save aura", brother. I am very confident that what I assumed above is more close to the real rules, than you dreamed.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

do you have any details (in spoilers). I decided not to read this triology because I have so much more books i want to read but in the spoilers on reddit there is nothing about Lucerne. Can you tell me more?SNIP

 

 

There's not a lot to it. You've seen him in Gate of Bones as a Sergeant in an Unnumbered Son of Dorn Intercessor Squad, he believes in the Emperor's divinity, and wants to join the Black Templars.

 

Well, by Godblight, which is some years later, he's now a Sword Brother, and is on Macragge with the Historator Fabian from Avengin Son, acting as his bodyguard. He fights alongside the Ultramarines and helps Fabian.

 

But what's interesting about him is that he's funny, and positive, like the best sort of priest of vicar, ones who are in a good mood because they get to serve their God in a way they enjoy. I need some quotes really, but I only have the audiobook.

[Spinsanity]

Kinda surprised noone has mentioned how Rites of Battle gets a +8.85% increase in area coverage on Helbrecht's 60mm base (right?) than it would on a regular Captain/Chapter Master's 40mm base, once you remove the base from the equation... It's not that much of a difference (not even 1% of a 44x30 battlefield), but it still means he gets to buff a larger portion of his forces than other chapters' leaders...

[Marshal Reinhard]

Given the track record of other primarized special characters, most did retain their old rules like before right? Rather, than being rewritten from the ground up, ruleswise.

 

Ie, we can expect helbrecht's special rules and such to be pretty much what they were?

[ChargingSoll]

Given the track record of other primarized special characters, most did retain their old rules like before right? Rather, than being rewritten from the ground up, ruleswise.

 

Ie, we can expect helbrecht's special rules and such to be pretty much what they were?

Reckon same auras but his weapons having different stats, swords probable no longer d3 damage. But with the rumours of the Emperors champion gaining an aura we'll have to see.

[Blindhamster]

Given the track record of other primarized special characters, most did retain their old rules like before right? Rather, than being rewritten from the ground up, ruleswise.

 

Ie, we can expect helbrecht's special rules and such to be pretty much what they were?

It's about 50:50

 

Mephiston was exactly the same but gained the +1 A and W, nothing else.

 

I think khan and shrike weren't dramatically changed either.

 

Calgar and Tiggy both got noticeable boosts.

[Medjugorje]

Helbrecht cannot stay like he was WITH THAT KIND OF MODEL. its simply too big, I think he will get a BIG boost.

[redmapa]

Im pretty sure the Khan got a small boost, he has a +1 to wound in melee aura which is something he didnt have when he was a small marine and while its not huge it is a pretty nice step up and he is just a Captain so his rules arent going to be end all be all, whereas Helbrecht is a Chapter Master so his new rules might get a bigger boost. 

[Blindhamster]

Just saying to temper your expectations guys, when mephiston was revealed they made out that he was more powerful than ever through promotional stuff and that he could control his powers better via the tie in novel. Suffice to say, he barely changed beyond the absolute minimal effort required.

 

But yeah, I think he’ll at least have rules update to reflect the servitors on his base plus maybe some other tweak.

[Jacques Corbin]

I can't wait to see what those shotguns look like on the Primaris Neophytes, and how they perform. That extra AP in the Tactical Doctrine...

 

Multimeltas on vehicles to replace the Heavy Stubber, love it. Are they worth it on Impulsors? Or will it just be the Repulsor chassis?

[Tokugawa]

Khan has a charge only +1s aura before. +1 to wound aura is obviously a good buff. Shrike receive a new sniper pistol, and has dmg d3 claw become dmg2. Not a very huge buff, but better than nothing.

 

Actually Calgar already had the "receive half dmg" ability in early 8th index(and +2cp), it was not granted by new book, but at early 8th he had a ridiculusly high cost (250pts?), so he could also counted as "buffed".

 

Mephiston don't receive anything beyond the +1W+1A from standard "primaris-ization". What a shame for a famous and respected hero! I think the whole BA 9th codex is full of nerf and failures.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Tokugawa