Iron Father Ferrum Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Personally, I'm okay with EC remaining in the next CSM (selfishly because I've only just started out and don't want to buy a whole new set of models). If the exploding 6s is true then heavy bolter havoc squads are going to come into their own. As would obliterators. I am concerned that the writers will still keep the artificial limitation on which models receive their own monofaction bonus e.g. only infantry and helbrutes etc.rather than making it genuinely army wide. I think CSM are the last faction with the vehicle exclusion, so logic dictates that's going away. SanguinaryGuardsman 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5785802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I wonder if Abaddon will still give bonuses to that mechanic, or if he'll be altered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5785834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Are these kinds of abilities generally worded as "6+" or "natural 6"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5785871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiju Soze Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Are these kinds of abilities generally worded as "6+" or "natural 6"? These days, "unmodified 6s", so nat 6. Doctor Perils and WrathOfTheLion 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5785877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 The downside I can see is that this will tilt us into a more Dakka orientated army that only wants to hit combat at turn 4+ Non combat Chaos doesnt bother me, its GW that has leaned on that aspect of the CSM since 2nd edition just to make them a little bit different from marines (these ones have spikes and hit you with sticks). Never really gelled with Iron Warriors because of this, I wanna blow things up not slap them every game. Tallarn Commander 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5785962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 Bear in mind that we're also likely to get stratagems to push a unit into different "turns" of the doctrine. There's a SM one and then there's subfaction ones for them as well, so we *should* have access to at least one such strat. Yeah exactly. There's also room for certain legions to interact with certain parts of the "doctrine", further reinforcing existing bonuses, so I think at face value there's a lot of merit in the system for us regardless of which legion one plays. Iron Father Ferrum and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiju Soze Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Speculation: Berserkers always count as in being "assault doctrine". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathor42 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Wonder if this will stack with death to the false emperor or replace it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Speculation: Berserkers always count as in being "assault doctrine". I think the wulfen rules would be perfect for zerkers... even just a cut/paste job. Seems perfect. Great volume of attacks, fast, automatic fight on death bypasses all the fight last nonsense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Some rumours around reddit/fb regarding new doctrine and NL legion rules. Can't speak for their actual veracity, but seem mostly believable stuff - still, word of mouth being what it is, who knows. If it's genuine can't say I'm too thrilled with the doctrine ability - arguably a worse buff than the loyalist -1ap, and with the same turn scaling which I would say doesn't fit, given that overall we are geared more towards getting in combat early on with shooting being secondary. The NL stuff looks nice however, assuming that they mean -1 for Combat attrition tests (making 1-2 or 1-3 a failure), with the nice bonus condition when trying to finish off low strength units or units that are debuffed by the aura enough. To quote from someone on reddit concerning the strat however - 'The stratagem is weird and is less likely than the rest: the "no deep-strike turn 1" is only in Matched play rules not in the core rules. (They never made a stratagem for Matched play only).' Assuming this is legit (big assumption), I looks pretty good. Daemon engines with BS 3 and exploding 6s on turn 1... ouch! If there are stratagems to manipulate who gets what doctrine buffs and 2w CSMs (lol shield drones) then I could get behind this. That nightlords buff looks very spicy. Most units will be ld6 or less when suffering from -2 and there are likely to be ways to increase that debuff. How good would a NL maulerfiend or hellbrute be in close combat on turn 3? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Currently the NL aura stacks with its self, I'm guessing this new version won't. Getting most enemy units down to ld 6 would be fairly easy with this debut, assuming raptors also keep their in built -1 even vetran Marines would be suffering. Orks are going to hate fighting night Lords while most tanks and deeds will be wounded on 4+ by them in melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Personally, I'm okay with EC remaining in the next CSM (selfishly because I've only just started out and don't want to buy a whole new set of models). If the exploding 6s is true then heavy bolter havoc squads are going to come into their own. As would obliterators. I am concerned that the writers will still keep the artificial limitation on which models receive their own monofaction bonus e.g. only infantry and helbrutes etc.rather than making it genuinely army wide. I think CSM are the last faction with the vehicle exclusion, so logic dictates that's going away. GW logic dictates that it's staying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Prot, if you see this I weep for the potential future of chosen based on your experiences with BT SB. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Personally, I'm okay with EC remaining in the next CSM (selfishly because I've only just started out and don't want to buy a whole new set of models). If the exploding 6s is true then heavy bolter havoc squads are going to come into their own. As would obliterators. I am concerned that the writers will still keep the artificial limitation on which models receive their own monofaction bonus e.g. only infantry and helbrutes etc.rather than making it genuinely army wide. I think CSM are the last faction with the vehicle exclusion, so logic dictates that's going away. GW logic dictates that it's staying. How so? They've made that change for literally every army. Why wouldn't they change it for CSM? And don't pull the old "Woe is me, GW hates Chaos" line. This isn't 5th Edition, there's no need to be melodramatic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Personally, I'm okay with EC remaining in the next CSM (selfishly because I've only just started out and don't want to buy a whole new set of models). If the exploding 6s is true then heavy bolter havoc squads are going to come into their own. As would obliterators. I am concerned that the writers will still keep the artificial limitation on which models receive their own monofaction bonus e.g. only infantry and helbrutes etc.rather than making it genuinely army wide. I think CSM are the last faction with the vehicle exclusion, so logic dictates that's going away. GW logic dictates that it's staying. How so? They've made that change for literally every army. Why wouldn't they change it for CSM? And don't pull the old "Woe is me, GW hates Chaos" line. This isn't 5th Edition, there's no need to be melodramatic. I'm hoping for a powerful codex, if only to sell the new chaos range refresh. I refuse to believe the CSM refresh hit the sales targets they set because of our weak codex. Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Any ever use grenades on turn 1? WrathOfTheLion and Maschinenpriester 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptix Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Personally, I'm okay with EC remaining in the next CSM (selfishly because I've only just started out and don't want to buy a whole new set of models). If the exploding 6s is true then heavy bolter havoc squads are going to come into their own. As would obliterators. I am concerned that the writers will still keep the artificial limitation on which models receive their own monofaction bonus e.g. only infantry and helbrutes etc.rather than making it genuinely army wide. I think CSM are the last faction with the vehicle exclusion, so logic dictates that's going away. GW logic dictates that it's staying. How so? They've made that change for literally every army. Why wouldn't they change it for CSM? And don't pull the old "Woe is me, GW hates Chaos" line. This isn't 5th Edition, there's no need to be melodramatic.They literally did it last edition. In the 8.5 codex, AFTER the space marine codex expanded chapter tactics to all units, the CSM codex was still infantry, bikers, and helbrutes. Hell, I'm pretty sure they had to FAQ that the lord discordant got chapter tactics because he wasn't infantry or biker. Khornestar and SanguinaryGuardsman 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Personally, I'm okay with EC remaining in the next CSM (selfishly because I've only just started out and don't want to buy a whole new set of models). If the exploding 6s is true then heavy bolter havoc squads are going to come into their own. As would obliterators. I am concerned that the writers will still keep the artificial limitation on which models receive their own monofaction bonus e.g. only infantry and helbrutes etc.rather than making it genuinely army wide. I think CSM are the last faction with the vehicle exclusion, so logic dictates that's going away. GW logic dictates that it's staying. How so? They've made that change for literally every army. Why wouldn't they change it for CSM? And don't pull the old "Woe is me, GW hates Chaos" line. This isn't 5th Edition, there's no need to be melodramatic. I think you took my comment a bit too seriously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Wonder if this will stack with death to the false emperor or replace it. I think this is likely to replace DttFE, I'd love to see it stack as Turn 4-5 would be explosive for combat but it does seem like this system will replace DttFE. I'd imagine they'll call it something like "Let the Galaxy Burn" or somethign similar Doctor Perils 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Personally, I'm okay with EC remaining in the next CSM (selfishly because I've only just started out and don't want to buy a whole new set of models). If the exploding 6s is true then heavy bolter havoc squads are going to come into their own. As would obliterators. I am concerned that the writers will still keep the artificial limitation on which models receive their own monofaction bonus e.g. only infantry and helbrutes etc.rather than making it genuinely army wide. I think CSM are the last faction with the vehicle exclusion, so logic dictates that's going away. GW logic dictates that it's staying. How so? They've made that change for literally every army. Why wouldn't they change it for CSM? And don't pull the old "Woe is me, GW hates Chaos" line. This isn't 5th Edition, there's no need to be melodramatic.They literally did it last edition. In the 8.5 codex, AFTER the space marine codex expanded chapter tactics to all units, the CSM codex was still infantry, bikers, and helbrutes. Hell, I'm pretty sure they had to FAQ that the lord discordant got chapter tactics because he wasn't infantry or biker. It wasn't a new codex. It was adding a couple datasheets. They also didn't change any of the Legion Traits even though the C:SM Chapter Tactics were updated; do you think the new dex won't have new Traits, too? Doctor Perils 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Are there any leaks of traits for other Legions besides the Night Lords? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Are there any leaks of traits for other Legions besides the Night Lords? I would hesitate to call this a leak, it's a rumour at most... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Word Bearers: +1 to leadership and reroll combat attrition tests. :P I would very much like to know as well, the suspense is palpable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Any ever use grenades on turn 1? NL jump pack units from the rumours ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 *Looks at newly built unit of havocs with 4 chaincannons* Hello, Dreadclaw turn 1, and a prescience sorc to chaperone. Mark of Slaanesh for double shootin’ (if that is even possible any more). Edit: unmodified so nm. Chaos lord for reroll 1’s, there. That sounds like a fun alpha strike. Assuming Havocs don't move to limited loadouts. That is a great point. Oof… we shall see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/8/#findComment-5786535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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