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Knights of The Golden Throne: IK/TK RPG


Mazer Rackham
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IIRC the reason I had split actions rather than reactions was to keep the turn order clean, particularly with many of the extended actions having different timings and purposes - getting things like emergency repairs underway rather than waiting half a turn to brace against a maul that never comes.

 

Not playtested though, the system was primarily written on the basis of matching as much as possible to RT so that the local players didn't need to re-learn new rules and some of them make more sense in that context.

 

The 'evasive action' rules (i'd suggest optional when striding, automatic/optional when assaulting, unavailable at other speeds) bears clarification. It was a pilot test, successess were added as penalties to both shooting against you and your own shooting and stuck with you until your next movement action.

 

Turret rating was agility rather than PD to include it as a defense against mauling (and also you can shoot at torpedoes with normal weapon rules if they are fired from far enough away).

 

Combine fire is actually the normal operation of macrocannons under the RT rules - you choose when firing to shoot each individually (more chance of critical hits) or combine them into a salvo (much higher damage). The main problem under the RT rules was that you rolled to hit once for each weapon making it easy to rack up double-extra hits, under my modified rules I was looking at only allowing a single roll that combined the maximum RoF of the two weapons. Between that and costing the extended action(which prevented you from racking up big shooting bonuses) it became more of a circumstantial choice.

 

Mauling is very much a hacked-in combat system and probably the weakest (and most incomplete) of the original adaption... though not unreasonable for two knights without cc weapons kicking each other in the shins. (Ramming/shoulder barging does actual hull damage).

 

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It may help if I list out the original RT shooting rules to provide a little context, as they differ from the usual FFG combat rules :

 

Each weapon has:

- STRENGTH - the maximum number of hits it can inflict per shot

- DAMAGE - per hit

- CRIT RATING - the number of successess an attack needs to be considered a critical hit

- RANGE - basic range, +10 for half range, -10 for double range.

- SPECIAL - any additional rules. Lances ignoring armour, unique properties, etc

 

Attacks were a simple ballistic skill check - one hit on a success, one extra hit for every 10 points you beat it by up to the maximum.

Unlike deathwatch all of the damage from a single weapon was cumulative, so if you scored 3 hits and 1d10+2 damage each you'd inflict one 3d10+6 damage roll.

Armour was subtracted once from this final damage roll the remainder reduced three values - Hull(hp), Population(systems), and Morale(machine spirit)

In RT shields just automatically stopped the first hit from each attacker each round, for knights this was changed.

 

Critical hits also got a d5 roll on the critical chart - temporary damage, the occasional fire, etc, and always did at least 1 damage. The automatic criticals (and armour attrition) are not really suitable for non-primary weapons that failed to roll high enough to inflict damage.

 

HULL - your hitpoints. Once you hit 0 you are somewhat crippled and additional damage just refers to the critical table. You never go into negative hitpoints like in deathwatch so heavy armour vs smaller guns usually results in an a knight being disabled but intact, whereas something big like a torpedo or heavy lance hitting a crippled knight has a good chance of blowing it into tiny pieces.

 

POPULATION(systems) and MORALE(machine spirit) - you lose one point from each of these for every point of damage you take. Different kinds of attacks and defenses affect both as well as your choice of components. If either hit 0 then your mech is totally disabled. Could potentially be combined but there is gameplay in knights that have weakpoints in certain areas (i.e. good armour, good system protection, but an unreliable machine spirit that can be a liability in close-in combat).

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Taking into account that Melee is indeed a relevant thing for knights and also needs to be fleshed out … makes my head spin.

 

On a design note … I wondered if PCs and or Knights could get access to something like Werewolf’s „Past Lives“ trait to represent that some engines still have / can easier interact with the data ghosts of their former pilots.

You could have an action trying to tap into that for a bonus on another thing but if you fail / botch you might lose an action while you‘re hallucinating something from the life of your long dead Great Aunt. On particular spectacular fail - or a particularly haunted engine- that might take over control of the knight itself…

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I'm going to hold off replies to let other rules-wizards in to look at how we can go forwards, although if your system is all but flushed out for the Mauling combat AT, it might be that it simply needs that putting in as opposed to taking anything out?

 

We're still brainstorming at the moment, so anything anyone wants to add, feel free!

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Taking into account that Melee is indeed a relevant thing for knights and also needs to be fleshed out … makes my head spin.

Melee weapons like chainswords just used ranged weapon rules with a range of 0 and a different stat.

 

 

The mauling action was wrestling and shoving, crippling or beating down an opponent (or stepping on them) rather blowing it apart. Something of a legacy rule but it doubled up for trampling and gave gun-arm knights something to do up close (and up-close mechs something more to do than hacking away at hitpoints).

 

Unlike melee the mauling was also based (originally) on force of personality of the pilot and eagerness of the machine spirit so a raging berzerker knight with both its arms crippled could still dive in and maul the hell out of you.

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The old rules (in brief) for these alternate attack types were :

 

Barging into another knight:

- instead of shooting a knight that has moved into another and is facing them can pile into their target with a hard pilot check.

- the defending knight takes damage equal to the front armour of the attacking knight plus dice based on its size (plus bonuses from having a power harpoon or similar)

- the attacking knight takes d5 damage plus the opposing knights facing armour value (typically nothing unless a tiny knight faceplants against a big one)

 

Grappling:

- instead of shooting a knight can grapple with their opponent. It's a pilot hard test to start or end, after which the knights drop to the bottom of the initiative order and take their actions together making opposed command tests modified by the condition of their knights and bonuses from equipment (and a penalty for a knight that tried to disenage and fail)

- the winner can either inflict normal damage based on their margin of victory or heavier damage to systems/morale without hull damage.

 

Mauling:

- can be used in addition to normal weapons

- pilot test to hit, opposed command test to determine degree of damage.

- a successful attacker deals light hull damage and a minor automatic critical hit

- failing the initial roll to hit by four degrees or more means the opponent rolls command against you instead.

 

 

--------------------------------

 

There were a few ways to boost attack and defense, and also the full on mechanicus sponsored knights that never suffered from the machine spirit getting skittish due to damage but lacked the savagery other knights could bring to close combat.

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Has anyone an inkling as to the “theme” of the setting ? 
 

I’d imagine the ruling dynast / scions / family having sort of impact on the surrounding Baronies / households / lances…

Arthurian knights? Mecha Jannjssaries? Magmawhale hunters?

 

Different Barons could have different specialities / area of influence..( mining, farming, transport) - I agree that stretching the households / holdings over a few planets / systems allows for some more ideas and opportunities, voupled with some cultural and temporal drift.

 

Do they still have a connection to a proper Forgeworld  before contact with the Great Crusade?

it could be a lost utopia in local legend or the literal hell of folktales where the dishonorable are banished to.. 

 

With  the knights being held on tight leash to a Forge that keeps them in line, the arrival of the Imperium might offer a alternatives? 
Likewise, or with a more beneficial relationship, how do they chose between their oaths to Forge and keep and being expected to support the Crusade? 

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I could imagine several 'outcast' houses who, having been cut off from resources in dishonor, have suffered declines in technology. Then when reunification happens, the outcasts, lesser houses and those seeking more power seek patronage from various Mechanicum and Legions, causing dissent as others accuse them of disloyalty and putting the kingdom under the sway of outsiders.

Edited by Beren
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I could imagine several 'outcast' houses who, having been cut off from resources in dishonor, have suffered declines in technology. Then when reunification happens, the outcasts, lesser houses and those seeking more power seek patronage from various Mechanicum and Legion houses, causing dissent as others accuse them of disloyalty and putting the kingdom under the sway of outsiders.

 

Indeed, that would cause a nice level of conflict which for the bigger houses would be low-level, but would be a crisis point for the smaller houses, until it couldn't be put off any more when the smaller houses throw in with one side or the other and decide to take to the field for an ambush or two...

 

With theme we could go nuts with it.  The Dynast could start out dyed in the wool Arthurian/Prussian/Teutonic, with the different houses being shaped over time by their worlds, and the forced insularity by the Great Warp Storms.

 

It could go anywhere, and it might be an idea to start design on a couple of the Houses soon, whilst the mechanics are being built.

Edited by Mazer Rackham
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Should we decide on Houses first or the nture of the system/kingdoms first?

 

Bloody good question.

 

Build the world first, then the people in it.  So, we need a sector, a pocket empire somewhere on a map of the Great Crusade/circa M30 ish?

 

Giant Chainswrods goo BRRRR!

:biggrin.:

 

:facepalm:

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A quick proposal to get the world-building pot brewing.

 

I've been looking at a couple of potentials, mostly out in the Halo stars.  There's three points of interest out there, Hellion (I found nothing), Morox (cut off by warp storms, 3 billion casualties) or the battles in and around Rangda, which drew into the conflict, the Emperor, Knight Houses, Titan Legions and Adeptus Astartes.

 

Should we look at rooting the location for our Houses/Dynasts in the 30k timeline, as part of that fabric, taking advantage of the history there; or should we veer into something more original over which we have complete control?

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It's the usual DIY fluff thing, isn't it? Using something that already exists is obviously easier, but runs the risk that GW comes in and invalidates all your work by filling it in themselves...

 

My feeling is that in most cases you're better off starting from scratch?

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It's the usual DIY fluff thing, isn't it? Using something that already exists is obviously easier, but runs the risk that GW comes in and invalidates all your work by filling it in themselves...

 

My feeling is that in most cases you're better off starting from scratch?

 

Pretty much, yep.  Developmental control by the frater in this sub-forum would be preferable IMHO, but  I just wanted to float the option :)

 

I think there's plenty of free space out in the Halo STars or Mandragora zones for us to play around with.

 

Is Mandagora the one out on the Eastern Fringe?

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I second the more DIY approach… it is a big galaxy and there is plenty of space available. 
If this set during the Great Crusade, there is probably easy excuse to have whole sectors cut off by warp storms, what have you, if people wantedthis a bit closer to existing elements for any reason. 

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Alright, to get the noggin's joggin':

 

"And so it was, at the waxing of the 30th Millenium, Arch-Magos Maximillian Q'Eyn, was charged by the Sacred Oath of the Adeptus Martius, to retrieve that which was abandoned to the Eons.  An Explorator fleet was entrusted to him, and he did set forth to the Sea of Stars and Darkness.  With him strode the Knights of House Camlann, the Banners of Dynast Arrian Constantine, who honoured a blood debt with Iron and Steel, and four other Houses of Renown - Rannoch, Icario, Byrenikus and Draconae."

 

"A host of Skitarii and Tech Guard did swell and swear at their feet, as did Magi of the Biologis and House troops loyal to the Throne of Man.  Machines, weapons and harness were donated in abundance to this Herculean undertaking, and the bravest Navigators did contract, standing shoulder to shoulder with Privateer Princelings and Commanders of Auxilia."

 

"The Writ of Charter begat, The Lords of Mars and Terra both bid fortune and stout heart to these nobles of Humanity."

 

"Little did they know, that their travels would be beset by the whims of what we know as the Whims of Empyrean, and that the prize of the Mandragoran Abyssal, a binary star in the depths of the Serpentis Nebula, would become the cauldron of betrayal and bloodshed, known millennia later, as Constantine's Folly."

 

Edit, smite, amend as you will!

 

On a design note, this is where we could tie in the Warsuit histories, documenting and detailing the bloody battles the Explorator Fleet and Dynast fought in the conquering of the Abyssal...?

 

Have at it!

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<RETRIEVING DATA FRAGMENT 1xR-Z2>

 

By the time the assembled strength of the Houses breached the warp in what would later become their fastness, House [ERROR - DATA CORRUPTION] was little more than a shadow of its former self. The knight-scions of the House had gained great renown by fighting fiercly, throwing themseves to the fore of every vanguard, and being the last in every retraet. Their valour -  some would say bloodlust - put a bitter cost upon themsleves, and the Long March to Mandragoran Abyssal would be littered with the fallen war engines of [DATA CORRUPTED] that were forcibly abandoned along the way.

 

[ERROR _ DATA FRAGMENTED _ PARTIALLY RETRIEVED - MULTIPLE INTERPRETATIONS FOLLOW]

 

[iNTERPRETATION 1]- So great were the injuries sustained by the House, that when the system erupted into bloodshed and betrayal they could do little more than remain within their own keeps, looking upon their kin with sorrow as everything they had sacraficed blood to protect tore itself apart with them powerless to intervene.

 

[iNTERPRETATION 2]- The toll of the Long March had nurtured a bitter seed within the hearts of the knights of [CORRUPTED] and when deceit and destruction ravaged the system they remained cloistered within their stronghold, refusing the petitions of all who asked them to ride forth. They had given enough blood for their kin, no more would be given to protect them from themselves.

 

[iNTERPRETATION 3]- As political machination gave way to outright violence, House [DATA CORRUPTED] was overlooked, others assuming them too crippled by their earlier endeavours to mount any meaningful intervation. This would be their error, for the same determination that bore them to glory and ruin alike would drive them into the fire once more.

 

[ADDENDUM]- Once re-unification with the wider Imperium of Man reestablished, manyo f those that considered themselves the descendants of House [DATA CORRUPTED] embarked upon pilgramages to discover and reclaim the honored fallen whose knight-chassis marked the near-mythical path to the Mandragoran Abyssal.

Edited by Beren
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[giant rules heavy post]

 

I dug out my old notes and exported the weapons chart as a CSV structure (below).

 

The total weight and power requirements of the weapons were never balanced and I hadn't created any profiles for the melee weapons (though they would be comparable to the ranged weapons - same statline structure).

 

While the system wasn't one-hit lethal knights could not withstand many direct hits from the heavier weapons, particularly unshielded. A grapple gone bad or a valliant steamrolling an armiger could be similarly decisive.

It is questionable how many knights you could put onto the field together before concentrated fire becomes too devastating and I had played with the idea of round-on-round 'haze of war' rules which applied a cumulative -10 to hit a target for each knight that had shot at it already, representing all the smoke and debris thrown up (reset at the start of that knights action).

 

-------------------------------------

 

By way of context (before upgrades and backgrounds) -

-Armigers started with 14-16 armour and ~30 hull points. Speed 9-10

-Questoris started with 18-20 armour and ~40 hull points, Speed 7-8

-Dominus started with 20 armour and ~60 hull points, Speed 5

-Cerasus started with 18-20 armour and ~60 hull points, Speed 5-7* (lancers had a boost mode)

 

Any free hull space could be given over to increasing hull points. Armour increases were much more limited.

10 hull damage meant you probably rolled well with a general purpose weapon. 20+ damage was a volcano lance, big thermal cannon hit, etc.

 

Short range was half distance (+10 to hit), Maximum range was double distance (-10 to hit).

Damage from a single weapon was gathered up into a single big hit, armour was subtracted once (lances ignored armour).

Maximum hits possible was determined by the strength (str) score.

A hit that inflicted exactly 0 damage degraded armour by 1 instead.

Scoring a number of hits equal/greater to a weapons critical rating inflicting 1 automatic damage and a d5 roll on the critical damage table.

 

Shields stopped the first hit from any standard weapon in that direction (reducing both hits scored, maximum hits, and hits required to score a critical).

Lances only lost a hit on a roll of 4+.

Flame and melee weapons ignored shields.

QUESTORIS
Weapon,Power,Space,Str,Dam,Crit,Range,Special
Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon,4,4,3,d5+5,4,12,Twin linked, Shred(2)
Aux Heavy Stubber,1,1,5,d5,10,5
Thermal Cannon,8,4,5,d5+4,4,5,Vapourisation, Twin linked
Las-Impulsor (low intensity),9,4,1,d5+4,3,6,Lance
Las-Impulsor (high intensity),9,4,1,d5+6,3,3,Lance, Devastating
Avenger Gatling Cannon,4,5,6,d5+1,5,6,
Aux Heavy flamer,1,2,3,d5+1,6,2,Flame, Shred(3)
Lightning Cannon,9,6,5,d5+2,4,9,Shock
Volkite chieorovile,6,5,6,d5,6,7,Radiation, Twin linked
Laser destructor,7,3,2,d5+3,4,5,Lance

Reaper Chainsword,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,+20 maul. Double hull damage when mauling
Thunderstrike Gauntlet,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,+20 grapple, +2 front armour, +d5 ramming damage
Hekaton Siege Claw,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,+20 grapple, Secure Grip
Aux Rad-Cleanser,2,2,3,d5,10,2,Flame, Radiation

Heavy Stubber,1,1,5,d5,10,5
Multilaser,2,1,6,d5,10,6
Meltagun,4,2,3,d5+4,4,2,Vapourisation
Phased Plasma-fusil,3,1,3,d5+2,4,4
Graviton gun,1,1,3,d5+1,10,3,Graviton
Icarus Autocannons,4,4,4,d5+3,5,7,Twinlinked
Stormspear Missile Pod,3,1,5,d5+2,6,9,Reload

---------------
DOMINUS
Weapon,Power,Space,Str,Dam,Crit,Range,Special
Plasma Decimator,12,5,5,d5+3,4,11,Vapourisation, Overcharge: commit extra power to gain extra DoS (with risk TBD)
Volcano lance,13,6,2,d5+5,3,9,Lance, Devastating
Conflagration Cannon,13,8,3,d5+6,3,4,Flame, Shred(3)
Thundercoil Harpoon,2,6,1,d10+1,6,3,Lance, +4 front armour, +d10 ramming damage, Secure Grip, (reuse missile rules?)

Twin Meltagun,4,4,3,d5+4,4,2,Twin linked, Vapourisation
Siegebreaker cannons,3,3,3,d5+5,5,9,Twin linked
Shieldbreaker missiles,2,3,1,2d10+14,10,15,Missile

---------------

ARMIGER
Weapon,Power,Space,Str,Dam,Crit,Range,Special
Armiger Autocannons,4,4,4,d5+3,5,7
Thermal Spear,6,4,4,d5+4,4,4,Vapourisation, Twin linked
Lightning lock,5,3,5,d5+2,4,6,Shock
Graviton pulsar,3,2,3,d5+3,6,4,Gravion
Conversion beam Cannon,6,4,1,d5+2,3,8,Lance, Special: -3 damage at short range / +3 damage at long range
Volkite veuglaire,4,3,6,d5,6,5,Radiation

Reaper Chain-cleaver,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,+10 maul. Double hull damage when mauling
Gyges Siege Claw,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,+20 grapple, Secure Grip
Aux Rad-Cleanser,2,2,3,d5,10,2,Flame, Radiation

Heavy Stubber,1,1,5,d5,10,5,
Meltagun,4,2,3,d5+4,4,2,Vapourisation

--------------

CERASTUS
Weapon,Power,Space,Str,Dam,Crit,Range,Special
Acheron Pattern Flame Cannon,4,3,3,d5+4,4,4,Flame, Shred(3)
Atrapos Lascutter,12,6,3,d5+3,3,3,Lance, Focussed
Graviton Singularity Cannon,5,5,3,d5+6,2,4,Shred(2), Devastating, Graviton
Castigator Bolt Cannon,5,5,8,d5,6,5,Twin linked

Cerastus Power Blade,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,When mauling may choose any critical result 1-6
Cerastus Shock Lance,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd, +d10 ramming damage
Cerastus Shock Lance Ranged,-,-,5,d5+2,4,3,Shock
Reaper Chainfist,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,tbd,+20 maul. Double hull damage when mauling
Aux TL Heavy Bolter,1,3,4,d5+1,6,5,Twin linked
Ion Gauntlet shield,na,na,na,na,na,na,Extended action to project a shield against any one target (for 1 turn)

Special Rules:

Twinlinked -  Any hit scores a minimum of one extra DoS (before shields)
Flame - Ignores shields. Minimum hits 3(short range), 2(normal range), 1(long range).
Shred(x) - Multiply hits against infantry (shred 2 = x2, shred 3 = x3, etc)
Radiation - Weapons inflict +1 damage per hit, ignoring armour, after all other modifiers.
Reload - Weapon must spend a turn reloading before it can be fired again
Graviton - Target struck takes -15 to shooting and maneouvering for one turn
Focussed - Lance scores one extra hit per 2 DoS rather than per 3 DoS
Secure Grip - Targets suffer an addition -20 penalty to escape from grapples

Devastating - Critical hits inflict +5 hull damage and gain +1 on any critical damage roll
Vapourisation - Critical hit results of 1 or 2 affect a second randomly chosen component.
Burn - Critical hits are always 'burn', and always affect a random component.
Shock - Critical hits always depower one component, and always affect a random component.

-----------------------------------------------------

Weapon Types:

Melee:
 -May only be used at range 1
 -May be used during grapples

Basic:
 -One extra hit per DoS (maximum of strength)

Lance:
 -One extra hit per 3 DoS (maximum of strength)
 -Ignores armour

Missile:                
 -One hit only
 -Ignores shields
 -Critical hit on a damage roll of 10
 -Accuracy reduced by 5 per point of agility on the target

Edited by A.T.
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Hhmmm.

 

There is a lot of effort going into this… but just looking at that wall of text makes we wonder if we aregoing in the right direction with this.

 

IMO the idea here is to get a feel for linking with a giant suit of Armour for an RP setting, not developing a virtual tabletop version of Titanicus without models ? At this rate, just using the core Battletech rules for Mech combat  feels faster ?  Does that make sense? 
 

Don‘t get me wrong though - I think using this for a actual TITANS feels very appropriate- like a landbased command  of battleships.

But that is literally another beast and if I understood Mazer correctly not the real focus here? 
 

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+++ Partial Data Recovery…. Incomplete+++

… from the recovered records, it could be assumed that these scions of the [partial recovery might imply the lineage  of Draconae? ] saw it as an e tension of their oaths to keep the fire of enlightenment burning and to lend aid wherever it was required, braving  the warp across the Mandragoran Abyssal. While -in their eyes - lesser houses clung to their keeps, the [data corrupted] saw it as much as a test of their resolve and superior wills  not be bound by the storms.  Their lances ventured across the broad of the nebula, often establishing small fastnesses used for resupply and waystations. These were also used to encourage, some would say enforce, pacts of support and vassalage to a  house, increasingly spread out over several active ( and often lost ) reclamation banners. This often almost nomadic style of operations led to the house boasting an unusually high amount of void born among their scions.

 

while the \ redacted / saw themselves as keepers of knowledge, their contemporaries might mit not have  agreed.

Some saw them as little more than raiders and relic hunters, the appereance of banners bearing the two headed [data corrupted] a dreaded sight of violence and impending loss of kin and resources. That the /wrxxxxtxx/  were more than willing to offer (and enforce) their protection on manufactoriums, data repositories and even Knight engines when they deemed their current holders unfit is well documented.

Rumors of them employing increasingly esoteric techgnosticism to ward of and cross the Empyream as well as unsanctioned and liberal use of technologies from the Age of Strife (including alpha level cloning ) were often dismissed as outlandish slander by envious lesser houses, especially among those communities increasingly dependent on their arcane, yet often distant overlords.

 

Once contact was reestablished with the greater Imperium, it became clear that these claims had not been forgotten, though…

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Holy incredible ruleset, Batman! :eek:

 

AT, you really deserve recognition for what you've put together there, but it's definitely too much for what we need, and it hurts me to say it, because I'd still like you on board and to pinch a few mechanics from what you've shown us.

 

I don't want to throw the notion away though, so would suggest that this type of depth and complexity certainly belongs to a project involving Titans and their crews, which I think would be the perfect cloth to suit it up inside, and possibly even an expansion to what we're looking to accomplish within the scope of this project.

 

Perhaps think of this as a testbed for some of your ideas to help you refine them for later in a Grand Opus Titanicus?

 

On the worldbuilding front, whilst we're all waxing lyrical, let's also try to think about the Mandragoran Abyssal (Working name) and what's there.  Do we have things like the Slinnar Drift, or the Black Reef from Deathwatch, something like the Screaming Vortex?

 

What creatures may also share the space?  Barbarous Orks?  Perhaps dirty Dark Eldar pirates, praying on the first settlers?  Signals luring the Mechanicum purporting to be from from the DOAT?

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