Knights of The Golden Throne: IK/TK RPG

[Xin Ceithan]

Well, with the set up it looks like there should be something significant to interests of the Mechaniczs in the area, sending a host of knight houses…

 

I have my temporal.files not quite up to this … is this already part of the Great Crusade?

 

I do think it is around / during Vects play for power, so the Drukhari might be bit different from the modern ones… of course there could still be remains of the Ekdar at any rate there and Orks are a major threat to the early Crusade anyway. As are pocket human enclaves…

 

No ideas on geography ( stellagraphy?) yet, just pitching some ideas after Beren‘s ..

[A.T.]

AT, you really deserve recognition for what you've put together there, but it's definitely too much for what we need, and it hurts me to say it

No problem, it was interesting to dig through the old design files I had for it. I didn't remember it being quite that complete.

 

One day i'll get around to actually writing up all these old half-finished game systems, boardgames, tabletop games, cardgames... :p

[Beren]

I feel like it would be just like the Mechanicum to set up shop in a system everybody else avoids because they have the common sense to know that horrible things happen if you go there. Perhaps they find the system filled with scattered remnants of human and xenos parties, driven mad and altered in unfathomable ways by what they find there. Though these are ferocious foes, the system seems untouched by the foes that have harried the fleet to date (eldar, orks, raider civilisations) and thus provides both sanctuary and tantalising mystery. IBy this point the fleet might be on the edge of extinction, so it becomes a race to conquer the system before their resources run dry. Later - 'The Plague of Madness' becomes an event and precipitating factor in the intercine wars. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Beren

[Mazer Rackham]

Well, with the set up it looks like there should be something significant to interests of the Mechaniczs in the area, sending a host of knight houses…

 

I have my temporal.files not quite up to this … is this already part of the Great Crusade?

 

Well I think our initial ideas were that the Great Crusade finds our Knight Houses, so the Abyssal would perhaps be founded as part of a trailing Expansion, before they're mired by the warp, then the Big E and [Redacted] Legions find them.

 

One day i'll get around to actually writing up all these old half-finished game systems, boardgames, tabletop games, cardgames...

 

And we shall clamour to buy them! :)

 

I feel like it would be just like the Mechaniucm to set up shop in a system everybody else avoids because they have the common sense to know that horrible things happen if you go there. Perhaps they find the system filled with scattered remnants of human and xenos parties, driven mad and altered in unfathomable ways by what they find there. Though these are ferocious foes, the system seems untouched by the foes that have harried the fleet to date (eldar, orks, raider civilisations) and thus provides both sanctuary and tantalising mystery. IBy this point the fleet might be on the edge of extinction, so it becomes a race to conquer the system before their resources run dry. Later - 'The Plague of Madness' becomes an event and precipitating factor in the intercine wars. 

 

That all works well, like that a lot.

 

I've noticed we're beginning to build a ragged timeline, with "notable events" :)

 

Does this mean we're getting a bit of traction?

[Beren]

I'm just spitballing lore ideas so far - I love making stuff in the vein of the FW semi-historical style.

 

Regrding House Generation - Should me and Xin post a breakdown/summary of the House Creation mechanics from the two rpgs we have access to, so we can see what to cannibalise from either one?

[Mazer Rackham]

I'm just spitballing lore ideas so far - I love making stuff in the vein of the FW semi-historical style.

 

Regrding House Generation - Should me and Xin post a breakdown/summary of the House Creation mechanics from the two rpgs we have access to, so we can see what to cannibalise from either one?

 

Absolutely post something for House Generation!  Go nuts!

[Beren]

Okay. Houses in A Song of Ice anf Fire have seven stats, each of which is determined by rolling a 7d6. They are:

 

Defense- Fortifications and logsitics networks

Influence- Political power/significance

Lands- How much of territory or/and infrastructure you have.

Law- Degree of control and presence of crime.

Population- How many subjects you have.

Power- iitary strength.

Wealth- The obvious.

 

You then go through several stages that alter these stats further depending on what you roll/chose. First is Realm (such as a House in the Iron Islands getting bonuses to defense and power whilst having a malus for lands and influence). Next is history, where you roll for how old the house is to determine how many 'events' you get, then roll for what each event is (Ascent, Catastrophe, Conquest, Defeat, Decline, Doom, Faor, Glory, Infrastructure, Invasion/Revolt, Madness, Scandal, Treachery, Victory, Villain, WIndfall), each of which grant different bonuses and/or maluses.

 

Once this is all done, you can use your defense score as the limit for the amount of fortifications you can 'buy', land for the different terrain, wealth for specific buildings, institutions or speciaists, power for military units. You can't buy' anything with your law or population scores, but they affect 'house fortune' rolls, which are basically vaguer/gm decided versions of the history events that happen to the house as you're playing it.

[Mazer Rackham]

That sounds good - it's simple, but allows for a lot of complexity to the history and fortunes of the House.

 

Very much like where this could lead, certainly something to continue development with as a template.

 

Nice!

[A.T.]

Okay. Houses in A Song of Ice anf Fire have seven stats, each of which is determined by rolling a 7d6.

I take it that's 1d6 for each of the 7 stat, or is it actually 7d6 and swinging freely between 7 and 42 ?

 

And is it a rogue trader style 'your base score is high so your perks and quirks are limited', or is it a D&D style 'you rolled poorly, tough luck' ?

[Beren]

It's 7d6 per stat, with the scale ranging from 0 (no fortifications, your name has been erased from history, you have been stripped of your holdings, you have no law, no one loyal to you, no population, and no money), to 70 (among the greatest defenses in the world, one of the main 'character' houses, most of the seven kingdoms, no crime, the military might and population of almost all the seven kingdoms, enough wealth to have 77 course feasts).

 

Once you've rolled that, each player gets to add a d6 to a stat of their choice (so houses with more players get more benefits) and from there some of the modifications can be significant. The stat modifications from which realm the house is in can range from -10 to +20. The most dramatic historical events are Doom (-2d6 to everything), Madness (+d6 then -2d6 for everything) and Windfall (+1d6 or +2d6 to every stat). Most events only affect some stats, and then only by 2d6. The maximum number of events is 9, the minimum is 1. Anything else is down to House Fortune rolls which occur over periods of game time (up to a total of six stats points in change wither way at max) or the in game achievements of the player group.

 

So from that I'd say it's 'tough luck' style as written, provided you're rolling for location/events and not just choosing them.

[Xin Ceithan]

I looked into the new Dune RPG and I am not sure that this is going to convert easily -  the system is much more open than the very old school feeling of FFG RPGs 

 

character have “assets” that are defined in creation or during initial play ( both characters and houses) which is used both for an analogy of equipment ( a warrior can have an asset that is representing their armour or a rifle or set of knives ) or as an area of influence or a skill (leadership, tactics). An asset a character has either from personal background or house gives him an advantage in a situation where the described asset could come into play (you are profiting going into a fight with a weapon) 

 

House creation is basically choosing a sort of standing (nascent, minor, major. House) which determines the number and power level of the houses enemies as well as the number of “ domains” the players can choose (which are ranked as a primary and lesser domain ) 

The Domain is what the House is noted for in the wider Imperium.. there are a few examples given and every domain gets a few further  distinctions (factory, workers, produce, understanding).

 

In a situation where it might be relevant, players can use the asset of their house to their advantage ( get a bonus to their action / attempt )

 

House Atreides primary domain is Farming and the specialty produce ( “rice” ) 

That doesn’t sound to exciting, but apparently a lot of worlds are dependent on that rice for their foodsupply, so it gives them a lot of influence and pull  as well as connections all over the Empire.

 

So you might benefit from the asset in a situation at court, getting onto another planet or even a battle (when the other side can no longer. Feed their troops ) depending on the story and players action.

 

It is pretty vague, tbh…the House creation is barely ten pages  as the whole set of house and character traits / assets are inherently interlinked. I think it is quite elegant but  not sure this is going to help here.  If we are looking for a set of random tables, Traveller might be more helpful here : p

 

 

I am still looking to dig up the Nation building system from Exalted, but apparently I put that away very to be quite  secure 

[Beren]

 

The Domain is what the House is noted for in the wider Imperium.. there are a few examples given and every domain gets a few further  distinctions (factory, workers, produce, understanding).

 

In a situation where it might be relevant, players can use the asset of their house to their advantage ( get a bonus to their action / attempt )

 

House Atreides primary domain is Farming and the specialty produce ( “rice” ) 

That doesn’t sound to exciting, but apparently a lot of worlds are dependent on that rice for their foodsupply, so it gives them a lot of influence and pull  as well as connections all over the Empire.

 

So you might benefit from the asset in a situation at court, getting onto another planet or even a battle (when the other side can no longer. Feed their troops ) depending on the story and players action.

 

 

I do actually quite like this, especially given the way webs of patronage in the mechanicum work. Whoever controls the garden-moon, agri-dome, nutruent-vts is going to have something that's low value but a high necessity, someone who controls the best mining site will have something heavily sought after, someone who has the esoteric archaeotech has something that people will pay a lot to get a hold of, but when it comes down to it this won't be as high priority s the basic stuff. Also stuff like who has the best sacristans or the most access to new knight suits etc.  This gives us something to link our Houses together and for them to potentially fight over.

[Xin Ceithan]

It’s definitely a nice idea and both requires and encourages  people to think about how and which assets a House  has and uses.

In the given example, the pc group chooses Art as the primary Dominion and takes the Produce trait, deciding that their House is known for their literature and poetry.

In true player fashion the secondary Dominion (they are a minor House ), they chose Espionage and the “Workers” trait - their poets travel a lot and are not only going to recitals... 

So is some options here.

 

I managed to find my Exalted books and the rules here are much more complex and more board game like.

It’s called “ the Mandate of Heaven” and it’s in the 2nd Edition Storytellers Handbook.

 

It is more like creating an actual character in a way that is typical of WW games…

 

In short, you choose a size ( Magnitude) for the Dominion ( which runs from 1 -small town, neighborhood in a large city - to 9 - Empire

starting Magnitude defines the dots you spend in 3 Attributes (War, Culture, Government) and respective skills of the Dominion.

Again, this is supposed to be representing the feel of the Dominion, not actual values (low scores in war might mean a large but inexperienced army, high trained specialist under lousy leadership and so on) 

 

Dominions then take an action each “season” during downtime ( or up to three for longer periods of downtime ) and have several options and thinks like Willpower and health levels.

 

This is easily a whole mini game on it’s own and while still subject to chance, players get a bit more of control in building / managing their Dominion than just rolling a rather random traits. 
I’ll read up on it a bit further and if you like, provide some more details if we want  to go that way.

[Mazer Rackham]

Which direction do you guys feel is the better route?

[Beren]

I think in our case player choice, or at least the option of player chooice is definately a plus.

 

How much of a separation should we have between generating the planets and territory vs creating the knight Households themselves, given that we're creating a setting for Houses to fit in but leaving options for others to create their own?

 

Another thing we might be able to pilfer from  is the Only War Regiment Creation system. Obviously it doesn't realate to noble houses but it always seemd to me like a decent way to build a characterful body whilst being balanced. You get points total to spend, and then planetary homeworlds/doctrines/equipment access and can select drawbacks to give yourself more points to spend. Might also be worth looking at Rogue Trader's colony creation/management system to see how it fuses colony management with roleplaying.

[Mazer Rackham]

I think in our case player choice, or at least the option of player choice is definitely a plus.

 

Agree.

 

How much of a separation should we have between generating the planets and territory vs creating the knight Households themselves, given that we're creating a setting for Houses to fit in but leaving options for others to create their own?

 

I think there's a trick to this - when we're world/planet building we build the setting - like The Jericho Reach, we do all the planets, do all the politics and houses as examples, that's just the setting of what's there.

 

If a player builds their own house/planet etc, they can do that for planets we build in that have little information on them - perhaps like the Space Marine Chapters with only a colour scheme, players fill all that out themselves.  Thoughts?

 

[sNIP] Another thing we might be able to pilfer from  is the Only War Regiment Creation system

[sNIP] Might also be worth looking at Rogue Trader's colony creation/management system to see how it fuses colony management with roleplaying.

 

By all means, if we can just lift stuff wholesale that meets our needs, then all the better - I think you mentioned a touch of cannibalism?  Isn't that an FFG tradition when it comes to copypasta? :)

[Xin Ceithan]

Systemwise, I think it is mostly a choice of how much / where the focus of players interests lie

 

- if the focus is on the indivicharacters and characters with relative little say in how the house is run, the is little need to have then

m create a full spreadsheet of their domain and run actions for it every season.

 

We have used the Exalted system before and it is quite fun to see your characters caught up in whatever calamity is gripping the region even if they do not had a hand in it or just hear about the peasant’s revolt over in Bob’s domain.  I also find it not only gives the game an inner dynamic and is quite nice to develop both a common history and players/ characters interests in the setting.

 

A player in a Vampire chronicle came up with the idea that she’d like to increase her connections and Ressources, investing in cloth and trading, decided to move into France in the 1200s  when a few lucky rolls paid off and it made sense to have her take more direct control there,

 

Knowing that a full century of the game would be situated there later during the French Revolution ( which the players did not know then) I even encouraged it - it allowed them a much more organic way in and they had already some literal interests and stakes in it, rather than declaring the PCs might have to find a reason to spend the next century in France.

 

Another character ended up a well respected among his peers  but mostly desolate and penniless guy on the streets of L.A.  by the time of  the 20th Century by repeatedly failing some rolls / actions. 
 

The circumstances involved in both these players actions made a few nice stories - I think my players might have enjoyed these even more than the main plot in some cases.

 

so, yes,  absolutely uses some of that… if all else fails, there could be seperste threads, one for the actual in character play and one for the more Total War /  Civilisation style Empire Building around that - with a bit of that FW / Black book future history as a write up / overview ?

 

 

Using the rules from RT for colony building is certainly going to speed things up. I don’t have OW but I could see a system that builds regiments / home worlds used here as well. I suspect it conveys some of the traits that could be used in building your own guard regiment in the codex? It’s propably easy to nick that and maybe even find a trait from Titanicus for building a Knight household.

 

I’d suggest building home worlds and maybe rough households first, then place these and see what makes sense to put around it…

 

in the exalted game, you get a number of lesser domains - if you run a city state, you get a bunch of lesser cities/ villages / tribes who support it, so you name / build these and actually place those around your domain, building an actual map on he grids and see where that interacts with either player maps/ grids.

 

Sectors and space are really big… I’d assume the Knight worlds are still one of the prominent features but there is still enough room to get stuff in around it, maybe just by naming it like you said. 
 

House Kraken might run the planet, maybe even the neihbouring system but there is a lot of place in the Jenaisiguarian Reach ….

[Mazer Rackham]

I've sort of had a bit of a think about this  - I actually think we need to consider House and Worlds at the same time.  I'll try and explain.

 

We've got a very light framework for the pocket empire in the Mandragoran Abyssal, big nebula, binary star cluster at the centre, at least one decent (M-class planet - I can't remember the 40k term), so perhaps we look at this like the Ultramarines and Macragge.

 

Just need to start small, all the huge stuff can follow - the control of demenses, patronage and favour, how they all interact and what lines of allegiance and pressure can be leveraged.  Let's try to pin down our ideas.  Let's try and make it work first, tidy up later.  In the business, that's called a First Draft. :)

 

To follow on from my opening statement, take a lower-middling house, (TBD) they would have the pick of whatever is left where their pecking order puts them.  This is one of the 'Canon' houses, so we can choose for them, instead of rolling for it, and they then form a bit of a testbed for a lot of things going forward.  Their piece of the pie gives them two planets and their attending moon.

 

Caelis Maxor, Caelis Minor and Fulminax.

 

Firstly, let us consider the House:

1. What is their name?
2. What was their condition before the Voyage of Tears (the hard journey to get here)
3. What is their condition now?
4. What did they do/suffer to be at this point? (Political betrayal, mechanical losses, conflict)
5. Did they lose the head of the house?
6. What did they come from? (Agri world/Minor forge, etc)

These are the kinds of things that might help to pin down our ideas a bit and move forward on the building front.

 

Suggestions, thoughts?

[Beren]

We have three names of the original five you suggested available, with one needed for House (tbd)?

 

What about a House accused of cowardice by its peers for often declining to commit its strength during the March of Tears? When they reach the Mandragora Abyssal having the majority of their strength intact is what allows the knight houses to secure the system, whilst the House seizes a number of prime territories for itself? Afterwards it becomes the primary defender of the system as it rarely commits to exterior campaigns. So we have a house that's strong in territory and numbers, but held in contempt by other Houses and is refused access to more esoteric technology or any forms of accolades?

Edited September 28, 2021 by Beren

[Mazer Rackham]

We have three names of the original five you suggested available, with one needed for House (tbd)?

 

No no, that was my mistake - I didn't use any of the House names, as I was just throwing ideas around

 

What about a House accused of cowardice by its peers for often declining to commit its strength during the March of Tears? When they reach the Mandragora Abyssal having the majority of their strength intact is what allows the knight houses to secire the system, whilst the House seazes a number of prime territories for itself? Afterwards it becomes the primary defender of the system as it rarely commits to exterior campaigns. So we have a house that's strong in territory and numbers, but held in contempt by other Houses and is refused access to more esoteric technology or any forms of accolades?

 

Fantastic idea.

 

That's a great starter House as well, as it's insular and self contained.

 

Xin, could you and Beren flesh that idea out (if you guys want to work that angle together?)

[Xin Ceithan]

I think it is good to have something to start on that narrows the field a bit.

At current, my mind seems to appreciate some bumpers on the side so ideas do not bounce to far off track…

 

I even pondered the idea of intrusion some sort of squats as natives and their relationship with an incoming Mechanicus Arc. And I don’t really like dwarves :p

 

So shoot some ideas you already have and I’ll bounce them around. 
 

//data loom..imitating spin//accessing..auditory reposit//re\House_of_Eald, Jonathan\\run subroutine: Magos Primus Oinasphericae

[A.T.]

One interesting thing with knights is the bonding ritual they use to allow pilots to interface with the knights. It incorporates a form of brainwashing that changes personality and strengthens loyalty to the house and is somewhat unique from house to house as to the specific traits and difficulties of surviving the bonding itself (and any superstitions and practices related to that).

[Xin Ceithan]

That is indeed something quite unique and opens a few nice options and complications for development and RP alike, A.T,!

 

I did use something along those lines to have the WiP for the Knight in the War of the false Primarch contact / worship their ancestor spirits around the Throne, seeing them as a sort of “loa”

 

BTW, there is a discussion regarding possible further Liber projects - should we pitch this there also? 

[Mazer Rackham]

BTW, there is a discussion regarding possible further Liber projects - should we pitch this there also? 

 

I'm working on it. ;)

[Doctor Perils]

RPG? Check

Big stompy robots? Check

Politicking? Check

 

Yep, this sounds like my jam!

I have to be honest though, there are quite a few walls of text here, and not much of a summary that I could see - I may have glossed over some information though?

Here are a couple of things that I haven't seen discussed all that much:

1. What's the scope of this project? A wide ranging system like the FFG RPGs / a simplified setting with a given story, but the players can still create their house(s) and characters / a single adventure with pre-generated characters
2. What's the scope of playable characters? Are they essentially all Knight pilots going about a mission, or are support characters to be playable as well (thinking about sacristans, chancellors, scouts, etc.)
3. Are you aiming more towards a roleplay-heavier with characters that are essentially set in stone, or more of a character-progression oriented roleplaying experience?
4. Would characters all come from the same House, would they come from different Houses on the same mission, or could they even be rivals battling it out between each other?
5. What kinds of adversity is to be expected? Other Knights (pre-Imperial/Imperial/Mechanicum...), Titans, Xenos... What kinds of adventuring can be had outside of their steeds? How to create incentives to switch from one context to the other, and not leave half the party behind?