RPG: Only The Greater Good is Worth War

[Mazer Rackham]

Hello all.

 

With the impending closure of Die Hards, and my previous comments and thoughts regarding Playing the Bad Guys, I was wondering if there was still any appetite for this.  I understand this is a bit of a niche endeavour and that most people will likely want to play humans (still possible - sort of) or Marines (not really possible!) but I was wondering if an Only War type game for either Tau or Eldar might work.

 

Originally I was thinking to base the alien kill teams on Deathwatch, which I still think could work maybe for Necrons, but now I think the Only War archetypes would be better for the original idea.  It feels to me at least that Firewarriors, Kroot and vespid, along with Eldar Guardians and Aspect Warriors could be realised a little better by that system, and with the Companion Mechanic, could allow for more aggressive play against hardier threats.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I haven't tagged this onto the previous topic as it is a few months old now, and this is a proposal for a different, and smoother handling of the premise via Regiments (Sects/Kith) with all the benefits of the Tactical Role/diverse skillset of the Deathwatch mechanic, making an Only War Kill Team type Hybrid.

 

My plan is for simple games, potentially one-shots with a possibility of carrying the characters further.  OW: Die Hards can be seen as a good example of how I propose for the system/games to work, except with a bit more tinfoil to keep you safe and slightly punchier kit, and everyone calling humans Monkeigh.

 

Thoughts?

[Trokair]

I’d be game. I have no experience with Only War and am just about getting some of the basics of Deathwatch into my skull.

 

Things that instantly spring to mind as something I would like to play on the tau side is a XV15 Stealth Suit or maybe a Gun Drone. :P

Firewarrior, Pathfinders, Kroot and similar are all ok as well.

 

 

On the Elder side my instant thought was Ghost Warriors, Wraith Construct’s  little cousins.  

The two little guys there, I actually have a few of each somewhere. 
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rt403eldarrobot/fly8806r1robotx-01.jpg

 

Probably more realistically, in addition to Guardians and Aspect Warriors Ranger suggest themselves. Also if there is room for small scale leaders character and not just line trooper level character a Warlock or Exarch could be interesting.

[Mazer Rackham]

I'm still new to Only War as well, but I think the way it work to allow for mixed Kill Teams would be better than my previous proposals.

 

Is this your Final Form, Tro? 

 

As to other Aspects, or Warlock, Seers and so on, I don't see any problem sorting that out, since as far as I understand a 'Kill Team' can consist of anything.  The ruleset is really there just to resolve disputes, so it's perfectly feasible for a Striking Scorpion, a Ranger, a Warlock or etc to walk into a bar.

 

I mean using the Regiments template, you could even role-play as a Windrider Host, with all the clan politics therein, with Shining Spear and Jetlock.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I'm intrigued, and you can probably guess my faction bias. I've got at least a little experience with all of the 40k systems except Only War, so you can chalk me up as another newcomer on that front.

 

I'd be very happy to do what I can to help out if this is something you want to go forward with.

[Trokair]

Meh, that droid is a bit, well not me. So no I guess.  If was to go for a Droid it probably be something like a B1 (without the demotion to comic relive they received in later installments). 

 

 

Back in 40k relam, this sounds more and more enticing, so much focus of the hobby is always on humans, as we the audience is human, that it will hopefully be refreshing and fun to approach this from a different angle.

 

Happy to help where I can to make this happen. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Trokair

[Mazer Rackham]

Welcome to the RPG Nook, Commander Dawnstar!

 

Being a little familiar with the FFG stuff is a great start, but being unfamiliar with Only War is no barrier.  Really, it's just a framework for me (or other GM's) to resolve combat, around which we can build narrative.

 

@Tro, yes, as you say - I know there are a few novels from the Xenos perspective, so there's something, but there's really more to explore for the RPG side - how are the Ethereals (for example) viewed by the savage Kroot, or maybe, if we should even say it in hushed tones - renegade Tau, and what do they look like beyond Farsight and his band of survivalist rogues?

 

There seems to be a small Hunter Cadre shaping up here.  Perhaps then we should explore what we can realistically do for the Tau as a Kill Team - perhaps that's where you, Commander Dawnstar and Tro can help me out?

 

What is the basic makeup of a Kill Team for the Greater Good?  I take it no XV-8's?  (Stealth suits like XV-15 and XV-25 we might be able to wrangle into being).

[Commander Dawnstar]

What is the basic makeup of a Kill Team for the Greater Good?  I take it no XV-8's?  (Stealth suits like XV-15 and XV-25 we might be able to wrangle into being).

 

I think that somewhat depends what we mean by a Kill Team.

 

The Chalnath box gives one vision of how you could realise one (with specialisations like Drone Controller, Medic, Marksman, and a few that could be compressed into Techie and line/assault trooper), but if you wanted to go for something with a bit more variety you could probably start spreading those roles out a bit more between different unit types. Stealth Suits certainly make sense for this sort of thing but I can't help but think they could be a bit of a balance nightmare. They have big guns, heavy armour, jet packs and stealth tech so they don't have to hang back while others do recon, so it could end up feeling a bit like they're the main character - which doesn't have to be a bad thing if everyone's on board.

[Trokair]

For Tau I reckon all the infantry sized Tau would be game, while the larger suits, vehicles and such would not be. I think the average rank should be Shas’ui  with maybe one overall leader at Shas’vre and some fresh blood at Shas’la.

 

So taking the model line into account I could see the following:

• Firewarriors (including Breachers)
• Pathfinders
• Firesight Marksman (along with Sniper Drones)
• Tactical Drones and variants - Possibly as NPC under the control of individual players.  
• XV15 Stelathsuits (I have an idea for a varient XV15 suit I would like to try for this)
• Earth cast battlfield engineer/tech support

Slightly larger but still potential ok I think:     

• XV25 Stealth Suits (fusion blaster and specialist system/upgrade access),
• Piranhas/Tetra
• Heavy Drone/Remora Drone (these migh be large/complex enough to be playable by a player individualy) 

[Mazer Rackham]

Thanks @Commander Dawnstar and @Tro.

 

All that is very helpful for me in terms of what things could look like since I don't have much experience with 40K anymore, or the Specialist Games products.

 

This is where things could get a tad...nuts.  In 40k/Kill Team you have to have a bit of games balance, but in an RPG, as I'm sure you know Dawnstar, the GM can adjust stuff on the fly (or jetpack, if you prefer ), and the good thing about Only War is that it's so lethal, you get your own companion (who uses your statblock for the most part) and is your very necessary meat shield, so whilst a Stealthsuit is very potent, it is facing threats that can blat it into scrap.

 

Similarly, due to the Companion mechanic, this means the Stealth suit can run off and do things, and the players still get spotlight, or NPC's or other things to do, so whilst our Sneakyboi is off being heroic, a Shas'La is rallying his comrades in the face of an Ork assault - if he fails, there will be no-one to stop the Nob from having the Ethereal for lunch...

 

Just to add to the list, Tro, I don't think a Devilfish is out of the question, since through the Only War Requisition system (very different to Deathwatch's Req) a squad could be assigned a transport Chimera.

 

I'll definitely look into our options.

 

What kind of characters/specialties are we leaning towards? (I notice Tro is leaning to fast, invisible stuff...)

Edited December 19, 2021 by Mazer Rackham

[Beren]

I'd be more than happy to play in something like this.

 

Tau wise, Fehervari's work has a couple of stories with kill-team esque groups - though it's mainly gue'vesa auillaries, a couple of tau' overseers/agents and and kroot scouts thrown in.

[Morovir]

I'd be interested in playing a Tau game. Unsure about speciality yet - probably just a Fire Warrior though.

[Mazer Rackham]

Welcome to the Greater Good Beren and Morovir (and happy return to the Nook to you good ser!)

 

Things are shaping up nicely...what do you all think about Sects?  Like Regiments in OW, do you want to run as a Mono (eg all Sa'cea) or multiple?

[Trokair]

Well, if Chimeras are potentially allowed the a Devilfish should be, and singular XV8 can be a possibility I would think (though potential at the expense of other squad toys, such as the aforementioned devilfish).

 

 

I notice Tro is leaning to fast, invisible stuff...)

More like invisible heavy gunplay...

 

 

Back in 3^rd (or maybe early 4^th) when the Firewarrior Video game came out GW first made rail rifle for the game (either inspired by the video game or as cross promotion I think) and gave it to Pathfinders with rules in a WD article, calling it a prototype. Then by the time 4^th codex came out it was a permanent pathfinder option (with the ion rifle coming later).

 

Between the rail rifle coming out and the 4^th edition codex (and the XV25 kit that came with it) I thought that the rail rifle would make a great alternate load out for XV15 and it be fitting for their role as behind enemy lines operatives/saboteurs.

 

 

So what I would like to try here is a XV15 suit with a rail rifle instead of a burst cannon. I can see it being a bit slower and less maneuverable than a normal stealth suit but still more mobile than a normal infantry person with such a weapon.

 

So replacing short range high rate of fire for longer range few shots with more strength and armour penetration.   In TT terms for comparison it would be replacing a Ranger 18 Assault 4 S5 AP0 Damage 1 with a Range 30 Rapid Fire 1 S6 AP-4 Damage d3.

 

 

A little fluff idea

XV16 Stealth Specialist

An uncommon variant of the XV15 Stealth Suit that, like its conventional cousin, was mostly phased out with the introduction of the XV25 generation of suits. The XV16 suits were early attempts to equip Stealth Suits with heavier weapons than the Burst Cannon.

 

Energy based weapons such as the plasma rifle, ion rifle or fusion blaster, while highly effective in battle, where to draining on the power capabilities of the suits and therefore unsuited for the extend field time expected of Stealth Suit teams.

 

The recently introduced rail rifle, already proven in the hands of pathfinders, however had no such problems. For while more power hungry than burst cannons when fiered rail rifle required such power in controlled burst, and specialist capacitors, once downscaled from the Broadside Railgun system could balance the demand of the rifle with the supply of the suit.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Trokair

[Mazer Rackham]

Certainly the right thread to talk about kit/armour/weapons translations...

 

I'll have a look at what can be done about the rail rifle, but I certainly think it will have to work like a Klingon Bird of Prey - Fire Gun: No Stealth Field.  That will certainly add it to the Experimental list, and your companion would perhaps be a field engineer or a Talissera bonded Stealthboi, without the Experimental device, and would be more of an assessor, tech type.  The latter is more pertinent to the Character thread if/when it opens, but that's good stuff to work with.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I think I'd like to try and do something with my namesake, so in this case that'd probably mean looking to work in the Breacher space with a Pulse Blaster (aka plasma shotgun). I'm really very flexible though and wouldn't be at all opposed to filling in any obvious gaps in the team if other people have strong preferences. Drone Tech could certainly be cool too.

[Beren]

I think one f the Rogue Trader Tau pc classes is a Drone Controller.

[Xin Ceithan]

This looks fun!  I think it‘s it‘s always fun to consider the other POVs as well. 

 

-it‘s probably  a good thing I‘d have to wade through a literal tide of stuff to update on T‘au first, or I might be tempted

 And of course, it is all just vile tech heresy anyway :p

[Trokair]

Certainly the right thread to talk about kit/armour/weapons translations...

 

I'll have a look at what can be done about the rail rifle, but I certainly think it will have to work like a Klingon Bird of Prey - Fire Gun: No Stealth Field.  That will certainly add it to the Experimental list, and your companion would perhaps be a field engineer or a Talissera bonded Stealthboi, without the Experimental device, and would be more of an assessor, tech type.  The latter is more pertinent to the Character thread if/when it opens, but that's good stuff to work with.

 

Well Rail Rifles where experimental during the 2nd sphere expansion (if I have my timing right) so by the time of the 3rd sphere (Damocles Crusadeand such) they should not be experimental as such. Also in 40k main rules Pathfinders can carry rail rifles around just fine, it is a bit like special weapon in imperial squads, say a plasma gun or so.

 

As such I would rather it not compromised the suits ability, but happy to accept a suit that is a bit less fast/maneuverable compared to a normal stealth suit, maybe reduced jump high/distance as well for the jet pack.

 

Found these stats online, https://www.40krpgtools.com/armoury/weapons/

Tau Rail Rifle (Mark of the Xenos p10)

Range 150m; S/-/-; 2d10+10 I; Pen 9; Clip 16; Reload 1 Full; Two handed; Devastating (1), Overheats

Though I dont know how Deathwatch stats translate to OW.

 

 

If requiere for balance reasons I would also be ok with playing without a companion (or just a Drone). 

 

 

Edit: Reading back I think I may have come across a bit augmentative, did not mean to be so, just now that I had a vision of what I want my character to be my heart is kind of settled.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Trokair

[Mazer Rackham]

@Dawnstar -  I don't see any problem with doing what you'd like   any gaps in the team could certainly be covered by Companions or NPC's that we could invent.  As time went on, those gaps could be made by combat, and so add an extra dimension to our game as the team struggles to do their duty under the Tau'va...

 

@Beren - good call.  I'll take a peek.

 

@Tro - good find.  The reason I was saying experimental was the mounting of it on the Stealthsuit.  I think you'd need a trade-off there for the weapon, as it's too good to pair it with potentially striking from Surprise every round...the 'overheats' Weapon Quality has potential though, so we can explore that more.

 

@Xin - Don't you want to be a master of zen-like quotes?  An inscrutable veteran who is aloof and thinks the young ones don't understand the "Way of the Talissera"?

 

EDIT: I have now acquired the Rogue Trader T'au Character Guide (Beren put me onto this) - the project marches forward...I now have some of the templates to begin building our team...

Edited December 19, 2021 by Mazer Rackham

[Trokair]

But “Surprise!” is what Stealth Suits are all about :P

 

 

Right, balancing, erm ... potentially sabotaging myself here, but what if Overheat, if triggered, in addition to any damage (I assume it is like 40k where a bad hit roll hurts the user), drains power and thereby disabling the stealth field and jetpack for a while.

[Mazer Rackham]

But “Surprise!” is what Stealth Suits are all about

 

Right, balancing, erm ... potentially sabotaging myself here, but what if Overheat, if triggered, in addition to any damage (I assume it is like 40k where a bad hit roll hurts the user), drains power and thereby disabling the stealth field and jetpack for a while.

 

We are thinking the same thing, which is good.

 

Yes, that's a good idea.  It makes the weapon have risk, and yet be potent enough to be worth it.

 

EDIT: Since we're beginning to get some traction, I will open the character/OOC thread soon and we can discuss building our Grey Heroes in more detail there.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Mazer Rackham

[Xin Ceithan]

I am not  sure I understand that „Way of Tally-Ho“ myself…

but now that you mention it, an opportunity to be totally misquoting T‘au Tzu and GreaterT‘aufucius is hard to miss up ;)

 

so I am keeping an eye on this (and that Ghostkeel model, which would take me an geological age to paint )

[Mazer Rackham]

Placeholder at the moment, but for future reference: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/372679-owx-tau-operation-fireknife-ooc-discussion/?p=5774287

[Trokair]

Things are shaping up nicely...what do you all think about Sects?  Like Regiments in OW, do you want to run as a Mono (eg all Sa'cea) or multiple?

 

In terms of Septs, I think the deciding fact is where/when the story is taking place. If we are near or in Tau Space than it would make sense for everybody to be from the same Sept. If However the story will be somewhere further out, say a 4^th sphere fleet far from home, then a mix of sept origins amongst the team is more likely.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Trokair

[Mazer Rackham]

Sounds like a plan.  I'll have a look at the Only War Regiment benefits and see if we can apply them to the Septs, so Sa'Cea gets +5 BS, Bork'an gets +5 Intelligence, that kind of thing.  It's going to be very helpful having some Tau fluff hounds on board!

 

As for the campaign setting, that's completely open for discussion as well.  4th Sphere or anything around then.  I don't know if the players want the time frame up to date, or historical, or what.  Sky's the limit.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Mazer Rackham