SoT book 7: Echoes of Eternity - Aaron Dembski-Bowden

[grailkeeper]

Arkhan Land looks familiar

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by grailkeeper

[drooling blood]

Seems everyone wants to know about Sangy.

The crescendo rises. 2 books to burn.

 

[DarkChaplain]

  On 8/29/2022 at 2:35 PM, grailkeeper said:

I have preordered it on my kindle but am desperate to read it ASAP. Any advice for getting the book on it before the 3rd of sept? I'm not very au fait with the Kindle but it seems I can only get books on Amazon and Amazon are keeping to BLs release date.

 

None of the book shops near me have it yet.

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You can sideload .mobi files onto your Kindle. You may have to run them through, say, Calibre to convert an epub (the format most commonly used, without the proprietary nonsense of the Kindle format) and attach a proper ebook tag, so it doesn't get handled as a document but book by your device, but: It's very much possible and worth looking into.

Don't let Amazon make you believe that you are chained to their ecosystem. You're not.

[grailkeeper]

Thanks!

 

Finally got my hands on it. 

No spoilers but there's a lot more swearing than Black Library normally allows. It's not gratuitous- gives it a more realistic feel.  

[Noserenda]

Yeah the main incident of swearing i recall was *chefs kiss* 

This book is awesome and i highly recommend it, its definitely focused, prominent Blood Angels who afaik are still alive arent even mentioned though the scale is still huge even at this late stage, they could well be just off screen, there are thousands of Angels! 

It does have a few chapters dealing with other threads or vignettes of the broader war, its not laser focused, and the view points do flicker around the core cast so you see a good few POV's even within threads.

ADB i think gets the Path to glory much better than most authors and this is very evident here as we see how the Path "ends" for quite a few varied characters on the traitor side.

Some lovely flashback action too! 

I see why they finished it how they did, but i do kinda wish it had finished on the Vengeful spirits status instead, i read the line and was like, "Damn that would be a superb finish" but there was a little more to come.

Top primarch duel action, the imagery of the final one particularly good ;) 

I really want Moonreaper to read this book :P 

[Ubiquitous1984]

It took me approx 15 hours but I have finally finished the book.  Wow, it’s tremendous!  I have been waiting for this book for so long, it would have been easy to overhype it and be left disappointed.  But it’s perhaps even better than I expected.  

For ABD to be away for so long, to come back with such an incredible book … wow.  The guy is a top writer.  ABD if you’re reading this, well done pal - you smashed it out of the park!

This is one of those top-level BL books that you compare to your standard Bolter-Porn generic BL work and wonder whether you’re reading two different universes.  

The Siege has been a bit of a mixed bag, but between this and Saturnine the series has had two of IMO the best BL novels ever made.

I’m happy to answer any spoiler questions, although I note most have already been answered.  It’ll only be my interpretation of course, please don’t treat as gospel.

Edit - hot damn, I’ve just read the hot-takes over on r/40Klore about this and some people are absolutely scathing about this book … they’re clearly more hardcore fans than I am and seem to have some axes to grind.  I’m very interested to read the opinions of the more measured Fraters on here, once they have had chance to read it!

What is sad to note is that certain plot lines that are open to interpretation, are very much being spun in a way to suit the agenda of these hardcore fans.  I really hope people will read the story for themselves rather than reading spoiler opinions and treating one person’s word as the gospel, when they indeed may be reporting an opinion wide of the mark!

Edited August 29, 2022 by Ubiquitous1984

[Treacletrousers]

  On 8/29/2022 at 9:28 PM, grailkeeper said:

Thanks!

 

Finally got my hands on it. 

No spoilers but there's a lot more swearing than Black Library normally allows. It's not gratuitous- gives it a more realistic feel.  

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Does anybody know where I might find Echoes of Eternity now in ebook format?

[DarkChaplain]

  On 8/29/2022 at 10:01 PM, Ubiquitous1984 said:

Edit - hot damn, I’ve just read the hot-takes over on r/40Klore about this and some people are absolutely scathing about this book … they’re clearly more hardcore fans than I am and seem to have some axes to grind.  I’m very interested to read the opinions of the more measured Fraters on here, once they have had chance to read it!

What is sad to note is that certain plot lines that are open to interpretation, are very much being spun in a way to suit the agenda of these hardcore fans.  I really hope people will read the story for themselves rather than reading spoiler opinions and treating one person’s word as the gospel, when they indeed may be reporting an opinion wide of the mark!

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40klore will be mad, it's the way of things. It becomes hilarious the moment you realize how many of 'em rely on memes and second or third hand gossip instead of reading the books themselves, yet will still be basing their incoherent ravings on those unreliable sources of gossip years later.

[StrangerOrders]

  On 8/30/2022 at 7:53 AM, DarkChaplain said:

40klore will be mad, it's the way of things. It becomes hilarious the moment you realize how many of 'em rely on memes and second or third hand gossip instead of reading the books themselves, yet will still be basing their incoherent ravings on those unreliable sources of gossip years later.

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Yeah... for a reddit of 'experts', most of their knowledge base seems to derive from memes and hearsay but they also cling to their half-baked knowledge with the ferocity of zealots. Just checked and most of their ire just seems to stem from their arguments not being agreed to be ADB...

Put differently, its a nest of Word Bearers that think they are Thousand Sons.

From the spoilers the book looks great to me. Just miffed it isnt in my hands yet!

[drooling blood]

  On 8/29/2022 at 9:28 PM, grailkeeper said:

there's a lot more swearing than Black Library normally allows. It's not gratuitous- gives it a more realistic feel.  

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Suck it up sunshine. Feth feth feth is not realistic? Like anyone here wouldnt be say the same.

 

[Bobss]

  On 8/30/2022 at 8:03 AM, StrangerOrders said:

Yeah... for a reddit of 'experts', most of their knowledge base seems to derive from memes and hearsay but they also cling to their half-baked knowledge with the ferocity of zealots. Just checked and most of their ire just seems to stem from their arguments not being agreed to be ADB...

Put differently, its a nest of Word Bearers that think they are Thousand Sons.

From the spoilers the book looks great to me. Just miffed it isnt in my hands yet!

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This is a perfect example of why I'm glad ADB has stopped posting on that place. I also think we're living in a 'complaint culture' more than ever

[DarkChaplain]

Just checked some posts too and wow, they complain about it being "filler", not appropriate to the Siege, it's stretched out and "could have been a novella" and that it has "too many flashbacks". Also, Angron isn't Hamlet but instead a murder-machine.

This might be my personal favorite:
"It's fine. It's Sanguinius. Nothing new or special or that you haven't seen elsewhere before."

Also, 40klore really doesn't like the way ADB presented the Emperor back in Master of Mankind, and that wasn't going to change here either.

 

It's honestly funny, because what I've glimpsed from posts here so far, it sounds like there's major payoff to various characters and plotlines that may reach the heights of Illya Ravallion and Jaghatai Khan's last honest discussion in her quarters from Warhawk - a scene that I think may have had no rival in the Siege yet; it's the culmination of so much weight on two characters' shoulders who we have been with from the start of their journeys, and it feels completely earned... unlike most character arcs / resolutions in the Siege so far (looking at you, Saturnine).

[Felix Antipodes]

And there you have why my W40K online forays are restricted to here.  Have tried various sites over the years without finding anywhere else as sane or as well moderated.

Time to leave the thread until the book arrives.  Already dodging spoilers 

[Nagashsnee]

One thing i always try to keep in mind, is that many people are not lucky enough to be able to afford the 50 books, plus short stories/novellas/audio and now siege books. Or have the time to go thru them. But they still love the setting/hobby, to them memes,snipets and other peoples posts BECOME one of the only viable ways to keep on top of stuff. 

I was lucky enough that most of the HH came out during my uni days, when i had the time to read them and the hobby circle to share books ( DA player gets his, Iron Hands his, etc). 

While the internet is the internet and melodrama and edgelords will always pop up, the HH series is an INVESTMENT in time and money, on top of an already not cheap miniature game. Add in things like the FW black books that for some factions became THE go to lore sources as the book series forgot/ignored them.   

Its easy to say 'omg read the book lol' but for some a you tube video or a friends second hand re telling's will be the best they can do. And for better or worse that will shape their view of the setting. Which to be honest is perhaps THE most 40k way to learn about 40k , half understood barely remembered re telling's of what actual happened.  

[Taliesin]

Book sounds like its exactly what Ive been hoping for.

[Gongsun Zan]

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It's brilliant. I teared up more than once. I must be Arkhan Land or something. 

11/10

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

The Reddit reaction sounds a lot like what happened with master of mankind and the whole emperor / perspective thing, as @DarkChaplain mentioned.

It's funny to re-read that book now, and have the emperor straight up tell Ra "I don't talk to you, you just process my psychic powers", and then he explains how one concept means different things to multiple people using the colour grey as a literal device. In the same scene. The emperor literally explains that he doesn't actually vocalize communication and that everyone has their own interpretation of things. We're then treated to a flashback of sagitarus and some more interactions with the emperor, which should all be building up a frame of reference of how he acts for the imminent scene with Land, where he acts extremely differently.

Like its all there, spelled out, and in a very contained chunk. But they didn't want to read it properly.

[Vazzy]

I just finished it. For better or for worse, it’s and ADB book through and through. It doesn’t top Saturnine for me, but it’s in the tier just below with Warhawk. 
 

It is the BA legion book they should have gotten with FTT and ADB writes an image of the legion that is excellent and the payoffs are fantastic. Bringing back Xephon was a treat and there were moments were i audibly gasped or lamented what was happening. 
 

Specifically when 

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Sapien gets killed by the Word Bearer, I let an audible cry of distress that my girlfriend asked me what was wrong and I felt stupid trying to explain. The last stand of No Foes Remain was also fantastic.

Overall it’s a great book, but if you’re not a fan of ADB and and his style you’re not gonna love this book. Lag and ha was also a bit of waste but it is what it and the afterward helps explain that.

[TheRealMcCagh]

Would this book be super confusing to someone who hasn't read any of the other seige novels, but has a general understanding of what has happened so far? I've been looking forward to this book for a while now, but I'm not sure I can knock out the series up until now before 9/3

[grailkeeper]

  On 8/30/2022 at 5:11 PM, TheRealMcCagh said:

Would this book be super confusing to someone who hasn't read any of the other seige novels, but has a general understanding of what has happened so far? I've been looking forward to this book for a while now, but I'm not sure I can knock out the series up until now before 9/3

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I'm only halfway through but I don't think so. So far it sticks mostly to Aarons own characters (particularly from Betrayer). It has yet to have any of the threads that have woven their way through all the other books. That's not a complaint- many of them have been pretty boring TBH.  That's not a spoiler as I'm only halfway through and things may change later.

[Roomsky]

Echoes of Eternity - ADB

I actually have to write 2 reviews of this book. This one will be my normal long-form write-up, and will explicitly be addressing this book as ADB Heresy book 4 (which is primarily how I view it.) Unsurprisingly, this review will mostly be gushing about it, ADB fanperson that I am. I'll follow this up with a review of it as Siege of Terra book 7 of 8, a role in which it doesn't excel at quite so much.

Echoes of Eternity (or, The Best Blood Angels Book Ever)

I need to start with the prose. This book's writing is absolutely beautiful, we are beyond lucky to have ADB writing tie-in fiction about goofy little spacemen. If there is an entry into this series to read off the page, it is this one. The narration will not do it justice, I promise you. This book is Homeric in the way Fulgrim and Urdesh tried and failed to be. The writing is artful and poetic in ways you hardly expect out of sci-fi, much less a Warhammer book. And all the little asides and vignettes, the minor players added for scale that have been tolerable at best in the rest of the Siege soar here because of that writing quality. I'm never annoyed reading about a boring tank crew because none of the little people are boring in this book. Every passage is loaded with personality. For the quality of writing alone, I adore this novel.

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The character writing is on point top to bottom. Lotara, my favourite human POV in Warhammer, shines in all of her appearances and forms a pretty horrifying bookend to the story. Land is back and is the humorously pithy coward you'd expect. Kargos shatters the mold of "characters mostly fleshed out in the Siege" by being awesome. He and his Word Bearers "buddy" are walking examples of just how deluded Argel Tal and Khârn were to think there was any virtue among their peers. And while he's a truly vile bastard, there is real pathos in Kargos' relationship with Amit. And Amit, oh boy, Amit.

This is the Blood Angels book. We get a look into both Amit and Zephon's pasts, each exemplifying different aspects of the same legion (and not in the Zephon good Amit bad sort of way.) From Amit, the legion's time as the Revenant Legion and his bond with the World Eaters. From Zephon, the legion's relationship with civilians and what a Blood Angel needs to prosper. Amit's sections are grim, but have an honest quality about them which I didn't expect. Zephon by contrast highlights how hard it is for killing machines to treat their slaves "well" and how ultimately there's still a disconnect, however much effort they put into being better than their instincts. Amidst all this is Sanguinius, those virtues magnified but the flaws not entirely buried. I was ecstatic to see him attend Amit's bout in the Gladiator's Pits because for once, I was able to predict what Sanguinius would do based on the rest of the book. Congratulations hawkboy, you're finally a character. Thankfully, there's not overmuch focus on his nihilism or visions in this tale: he's filled with uncertainty but always finds a way to defy the dark. It's pitch-perfect.

Angron is a slavering non-person at this point, as he should be. He does regain a bit of cogence by the end, and doesn't exactly have a flattering showing against Sanguinius. Redditors will have you believe it's malicious character assassination, humorous coming off all the years of alleged Chaos-fanboyism from ADB. The setting has always been very clear what kind of reward you earn by following the Gods, and this book is a perfect capper to ADB's other more traitor-sympathetic works. It doesn't matter how principled or morally upright you are when you embrace Chaos, all it ever comes to is the laughter of thirsting gods. Angron gave up his epic defiance in the face of slavers long ago.

Also, surprise, Vulkan and Magnus are back. This is the part of the Heresy where a competent writer gets to tackle Vulkan, and where Magnus gets told he did EVERYTHING wrong. Both are very enjoyable, and Magnus finally earning a lethal hammer blow to the face was infinitely more satisfying here than the nonsense beatdown of Curze at the end of a nonsense novel. Their exchange makes it ambiguous whether the events of Fury of Magnus actually happened, but in a much less biased way than the ambiguity in Warhawk IMO. It's unclear if Vulkan is being puppeted by the Emperor here, so it would make sense if Vulkan was delusional in his account of that novella.

To be clear, my opinion of this book is so high that I give it a personal 10/10. There are a few minor items that I think didn't quite land flawlessly, though.

ADB's pretty clear in the afterward that no one knew what to do with Ka'Bandha (thanks, Fear to Tread,) and to ADB's credit the daemon's single chapter is very good. But when you zoom back out, it's Ka'Bandha showing up, thinking about who he is and why he's here, then fighting Sanguinius. The middle portion of this book is absolutely loaded with flashbacks to the history of the Blood Angels, and there really should have been another one set on Signus to set up what Ka'Bandha means to the legion. Instead it reads a bit perfunctory, no matter how beautifully executed.

I'm also not one of the people who was cheering for an Angron v Angel smackdown. It's an excellent resolution to what ADB was doing with Angron's character throughout the Heresy, but ADB's a very talented fellow - he probably could have shifted a few things and made Ka'Bandha into an actual threat instead of having another traitor primarch banished in a 1v1 when these should be the loyalist's most desperate hours.

And while I did say this is the best written Vulkan - the template created by Kyme is just not very interesting. He's immortal, he's reasonable, and that's about it. It's perfectly in keeping with everything we've gotten so far, and is the best Vulkan in the Heresy. It just wasn't a high bar, and he didn't clear it by as much as Vulkan needed. I don't usually endorse editorially unfettered Abnett, but he seriously needs to get his hands on the poor guy.

But all of that is just so, so minor compared to what this book does well.

I binged this in less than 24 hours, and I never do that with a book. This is an amazing climax to ADB's heresy work, and the Blood Angels novel we should have gotten back at Signus.

10/10, 100/100, Must Read, Must Read.

My Siege novel quality power ranking:

Echoes of Eternity/Saturnine > Mortis/Warhawk > Solar War/Sons of the Selenar/Fury of Magnus >>>>>>> First Wall/Lost and the Damned

Anyway join me next time where I point out how mangled a Siege entry this is.

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Roomsky
B&C's text editor has gone insane.

[grailkeeper]

You've some way with words Roomsky.

[Taliesin]

Spoiler question: Does Sanguinius still face Kabandha and if not, is there another role for the mighty Bloodthirster in this book?

[Noserenda]

  On 8/30/2022 at 8:20 PM, Taliesin said:

Spoiler question: Does Sanguinius still face Kabandha and if not, is there another role for the mighty Bloodthirster in this book?

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Yes, but Ka'bandha is too busy working on his redemption arc to want to fight him, so its a kind of chase scene with the Daemon slaughtering Angels and Sanquinius (and everyone else) desperately trying to kill him.

[Noserenda]

Whilst im bothering with spoiler tags, quotes/moments that made me go "yessss", a probably incomplete list

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Engine Kill!

Eat :cuss: traitor

I thought i told you to eat :cuss: traitor/bloodspitters dying thoughts

Redemption mission KILL 500 ANGELS  324/500 ;) 

How the traitors stop the Eternity gate closing

Magnus literally getting his block knocked off finally

The vengeful spirit isnt moving! Its shields are down! 

Tachseer doing the opposite of "raining" vengeance

Khârn