HH 2.0 The Hekatonystika: Ist Legion Tactica

[xxxjtmxxx]

interesting. some thinks i dont know.

some questions. 

1. would u run sedras with an command squad Tartaros termis with swords?

2. would u equip a boxnaut with missile launcher and stasis grenades? 

[Brother Sutek]

Boxnought is better with just long range in my biased opinion with the nerf to its int. Love those things.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Brother Sutek
Spelling

[Uberlord Gendo]

I might use veterans. Yes, they've got access to shotguns, but they're the only relentless infantry that get missile launchers and so can help another squad.

I think we're "supposed" to use Interemptors and Destroyers given they've got missile launchers with suspensor webs.

[oldhat]

Is it just me or are Interemptors absolutely savage looking in ZM?

[Canadian_F_H]

Still trying to figure out DA for this edition.  They seam a little easier to run than last edition at least, so that's an improvement. Mostly that Interemptors can take rhinos now, and they can take landraiders without having to have exactly 10 dudes. 

I like the Dread wing and Death wing RoWs.  They don't give line to any of the mandatory units nor the ones that were moved to troops, so that's a bummer since they are going to still need to get Line somehow.  Options basically boil down to taking normal line troops.  In smaller games moving the special units to troops wasn't much benefit since their original slots will still be empty until you get to big enough games to afford to pile on elites after buying terminators or destroyers etc in troops.

The next option then is to take as many MOTL HQs as possible and give them all command squads for the standard bearer that gives line, or take the standard bearer consul that has line.  

Idk, seams rough.

[Brother Sutek]

Not giving Line to the units made troops that the Rite was made for is frustrating indeed. I almost want to ignore objectives and just build a Dreadwing list to see how much devastation I can make. I won't be able to play for a while so hopefully someone cracks this problem before then.

[xxxjtmxxx]

take 3 tac squads to hold objectives and thats it. 300 points and rest for fun 

[Brother Sutek]

I know that's what I did last edition,  I was foolishly hoping for something different this edition. 

[Canadian_F_H]

5 hours ago, Brother Sutek said:

Not giving Line to the units made troops that the Rite was made for is frustrating indeed. I almost want to ignore objectives and just build a Dreadwing list to see how much devastation I can make. I won't be able to play for a while so hopefully someone cracks this problem before then.

Depending on your plans for HQ choices, you can still get up to 4 line units via HQs and Primarch choices. (Pretty sure you can take a command squad for every MotL and Primarch)

Speaking of MotL.  Farith Redloss is dread wing.  But he doesn't have bitter duty so cannot join destroyers.  I forget, do Interemptors have bitter duty? If so he wouldn't be able to join them either.  So he needs a unit to join, and he could take a command squad and pick up Line.

Hmm... What does "Scion of the dread wing" do? Because Farith has that rule...

And in dread wing RoW you might still make a decently on theme unit out of the normal troops that have Line.  They have to take dread wing after all.  And the dread wing isn't 100% destroyers and Interemptors.  Siege breakers have phosphex bombs and could join a line unit.

 

[Uberlord Gendo]

I think it's better than it seems, while still annoying. The generic Rite only gives line to the compulsory troop slots meaning you only get 2. That's not trivial, but given the way that the center objective works, you're going to want a standard there anyway.

[Canadian_F_H]

21 minutes ago, Uberlord Gendo said:

I think it's better than it seems, while still annoying. The generic Rite only gives line to the compulsory troop slots meaning you only get 2. That's not trivial, but given the way that the center objective works, you're going to want a standard there anyway.

What are you referring to as "generic" RoW?

[ShadowCore67]

11 hours ago, Canadian_F_H said:

Depending on your plans for HQ choices, you can still get up to 4 line units via HQs and Primarch choices. (Pretty sure you can take a command squad for every MotL and Primarch)

Speaking of MotL.  Farith Redloss is dread wing.  But he doesn't have bitter duty so cannot join destroyers.  I forget, do Interemptors have bitter duty? If so he wouldn't be able to join them either.  So he needs a unit to join, and he could take a command squad and pick up Line.

Hmm... What does "Scion of the dread wing" do? Because Farith has that rule...

And in dread wing RoW you might still make a decently on theme unit out of the normal troops that have Line.  They have to take dread wing after all.  And the dread wing isn't 100% destroyers and Interemptors.  Siege breakers have phosphex bombs and could join a line unit.

 

Scion of the Dreadwing is an old rule from HH1.0. Looks like they just forgot to get rid of it when copy and pasting.

[Balthamal]

On 7/1/2022 at 7:05 PM, Erren said:

The Exemplary Battle Order of the Broken Claws I don't get. They're supposed to be specialized against dreadnoughts/monsters, but they don't seem to be any better at it than regular Knights with TH and Hunters of Beasts.

Sorry this is late to the party but the Broken Claws get the Advex Mors swords. Extra point of strength and lose murderous strike for brutal 2, overall I'd say it's probably more useful to go at initiative and force more saves vs a regular TGS or TH.

 

As for the discussion on line units in an Eskaton list - I'd say it's pretty thematic that it's all about obliteration. I love the idea that they don't care about holding ground just destroying everything in sight. Though in fairness Dreadwing was my wing of choice prior to the new rules landing and I'm going to follow them through. Just waiting on Sedras getting released now because I love that model

[Uberlord Gendo]

On 7/27/2022 at 2:34 PM, Canadian_F_H said:

What are you referring to as "generic" RoW?

Pride of the Legion. I was talking about something earlier with Unbroken Vow.

[OnyxUltraKnight]

How do people feel about Outriders equipped with Plasma Repeaters? Unit of 5 with Plasma Repeaters, Volkite Serpenta (because CHOOM), x4 Lightning Claws and Powerfist & Artificer Armour on the Sgt all for 295 points seems fun, especially paired with a bare-bones Bike Librarian w/ Biomancy (raising total to 420 points).

 

Plan would be to Outflank the bikes at the beginning of the battle, bring them on in Turn 3 to harass isolated or backline infantry. Librarian can hand out Biomantic Augmentation for either +1 S or +1 S/T (after a psychic check) for your turn instead of shooting. Outriders would then get 15 Twin-Linked S6 plasma shots (at 12”) and can then fairly reliably charge whatever is left to mop them up with the Lightning Claws (now wounding on 3’s and rerolling fails against T4).

 

I’m not sure if Firewing or Ravenwing would be better for them. I’m thinking Firewing for the potential opportune bonuses to harass out of position characters, but the Ravenwing +1” to Run moves and re-roll failed Shrouded rolls might be a good alternative 

 

 

[Laughingman]

6 hours ago, OnyxUltraKnight said:

How do people feel about Outriders equipped with Plasma Repeaters? Unit of 5 with Plasma Repeaters, Volkite Serpenta (because CHOOM), x4 Lightning Claws and Powerfist & Artificer Armour on the Sgt all for 295 points seems fun, especially paired with a bare-bones Bike Librarian w/ Biomancy (raising total to 420 points).

 

Plan would be to Outflank the bikes at the beginning of the battle, bring them on in Turn 3 to harass isolated or backline infantry. Librarian can hand out Biomantic Augmentation for either +1 S or +1 S/T (after a psychic check) for your turn instead of shooting. Outriders would then get 15 Twin-Linked S6 plasma shots (at 12”) and can then fairly reliably charge whatever is left to mop them up with the Lightning Claws (now wounding on 3’s and rerolling fails against T4).

 

I’m not sure if Firewing or Ravenwing would be better for them. I’m thinking Firewing for the potential opportune bonuses to harass out of position characters, but the Ravenwing +1” to Run moves and re-roll failed Shrouded rolls might be a good alternative 

 

 

Outriders seem pretty fragile... I have a hard time seeing five of them surviving  interceptor  and return fire reactions. 

[ShadowCore67]

So I just now noticed that the +1 to wound from Eskaton Imperative only applies to dangerous terrain from area terrain or terrain pieces. Do you guys think this is intended to work with phosphex/graviton areas? Being only limited to preplaced dangerous terrain seems almost useless. At least in my gaming group, we almost never have regular dangerous terrain on the board.

 

I realize it applies to jump packs/cavalry that treat difficult as dangerous but even then it's still pretty niche.

Edited August 22, 2022 by ShadowCore67

[OnyxUltraKnight]

2 hours ago, ShadowCore67 said:

So I just now noticed that the +1 to wound from Eskaton Imperative only applies to dangerous terrain from area terrain or terrain pieces. Do you guys think this is intended to work with phosphex/graviton areas? Being only limited to preplaced dangerous terrain seems almost useless. At least in my gaming group, we almost never have regular dangerous terrain on the board.

 

I realize it applies to jump packs/cavalry that treat difficult as dangerous but even then it's still pretty niche.

I can’t see why it wouldn’t, as they leave behind templates that count as dangerous terrain. I think it would be something to discuss with opponents ahead of time however and just let them know, as it might alter list construction fairly heavily for both parties depending on the outcome

[General Zodd]

12 hours ago, ShadowCore67 said:

So I just now noticed that the +1 to wound from Eskaton Imperative only applies to dangerous terrain from area terrain or terrain pieces. Do you guys think this is intended to work with phosphex/graviton areas? Being only limited to preplaced dangerous terrain seems almost useless. At least in my gaming group, we almost never have regular dangerous terrain on the board.

 

I realize it applies to jump packs/cavalry that treat difficult as dangerous but even then it's still pretty niche.

That’s got to be the intent, especially the phosphex. Dark Angels just do warcrimes better than anyone else!

[Laughingman]

20 hours ago, General Zodd said:

That’s got to be the intent, especially the phosphex. Dark Angels just do warcrimes better than anyone else!

How is the +1 to wound effect supposed to work if the dangerous terrain only partially covers a unit?

[tinpact]

Has anyone tried using the Firewing RoW? I ran a 500pt game with it vs BA and the combat buffs seem good, but the VP penalty was pretty brutal with suboptimal units.

[ShadowCore67]

On 9/7/2022 at 6:50 PM, tinpact said:

Has anyone tried using the Firewing RoW? I ran a 500pt game with it vs BA and the combat buffs seem good, but the VP penalty was pretty brutal with suboptimal units.

It's been the primary rite I've used so far in 2.0.

I agree with the VP penalty being harsh, but if you pick the right priority targets, and have good killing units do deal with them (seekers, sniper recons, etc) which is very thematic to the rite, then I think it's hard to actually suffer the penalty. The only way you might suffer the penalty is if your opponent actively tries to hide the targets you picked, which then means they're not contributing to the battle as much as they could so it's a win-win. I always pick my opponents warlord and retinue because they're destined to move up the the field, and snipers/seekers getting +1 to hit and +1 wound is delicious.

I can't speak to how it performs in 500 point games. I feel like it would be hard to take advantage of units that benefit the most in that small of points.

[okonomiyakimarine]

Re. Firewing RoW

I like the idea of infiltrating a few units that might (or might not) make their points back and then pushing in a few high level units forward. I wonder if it would work that well in bigger games though.

This is what I consider at the moment for 2k (1999 pts), but I only have half the units right now. What does everyone think?

HQ: Delegatus (Meltabombs, Terrain Greatsword)

Troops: 2 infiltrating fire wing squads 10 seekers (Vex, Artificer); 1 infiltrating fire wing squad of 8 Melta-TSS (Vex, Artificer); 1 footslogging fire wing TS (Vex, Artificer)

Elites: 1 proteus-carried death wing / reapers of hosts Cenobium (Vex, Grenade Harness); 1 rhino-carried dread wing squad 5 Interemptor (Vex, Artificer, Incinerator); rhino-carried dread wing VTS (Vex, 9x Chainsword, 2x Plasma Repeater, Artificer, Thunderhammer) (Delegatus goes here)

Dedicated Transports: 2 Rhinos (DB, TL bolter); 1 Proteus (additional hull TL las, pintle TL bolter, SL, HKM)

[ShadowCore67]

A cool little trick with the firewing RoW: If you give cenobium firewing, they're all characters. So each one of them gets +1 attack against the priority targets on top of the +1 to hit.

[okonomiyakimarine]

4 hours ago, ShadowCore67 said:

A cool little trick with the firewing RoW: If you give cenobium firewing, they're all characters. So each one of them gets +1 attack against the priority targets on top of the +1 to hit.

thanks for pointing this out. the average hits should go up significantly with Fire Wing in the RoW. Yet Death wing gives the bonus against whatever unit your target is when assaulting. That is why I sticked with Death. Thinking about this a bit more, you might be right in suggesting it for in a 2k game most units the cenobium likely wants to attack HQ and Elite units that actually are the priority targets. 

Good stuff. btw. i made some changes to the list already and am in the process of more fine tuning. Ride for the TS extra calibanite  blade and so on.