HH 2.0 The Dodekatheon: IVth Legion Tactica

[Slips]

Discussion topic with regards to the Iron Warriors in the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy system.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Slips

[Trixie]

Now that Iron Circle are significantly reduced in points, I feel like I'm going to be able fit them into a lot of lists. Whilst they still have the issue of getting them into a fight, the points reduction seems enough that these guys can be added as flavour or fun units without having to build a whole list around them. Previously I felt that their 200+ pts cost was extremely prohibitive and was keeping one of the best looking (and fluffiest) sculpts off tables everywhere. I will certainly be dusting off my pair of party bots  and was wondering what other members of the IVth think of the cheaper (and more reliable in terms of attacks) Iron Circle.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Trixie

[RoadRunna]

Now that Iron Circle are significantly reduced in points, I feel like I'm going to be able fit them into a lot of lists. Whilst they still have the issue of getting them into a fight, the points reduction seems enough that these guys can added as flavour or fun units without having to build a whole list around them. Previously I felt that their 200+ pts cost was extremely prohibitive and was keeping one of the best looking (and fluffiest) sculpts off tables everywhere. I will certainly be dusting my pair of party bots off and was wondering what other members of the IVth think of the cheaper (and more reliable in terms of attacks) Iron Circle.

Take them in an Alpha Legion army and they can infiltrate 

[Dagoth Ur]

Honestly, with all these shrapnel weapons and the renewed Hammer of Olympia RoW, I am extremely tempted to just build 60 tactical marines, add a bit of armour, maybe a unit of terminators and just start gunning stuff down. Don't know how playable that'll be but it at least looks good in my head.

[Trixie]

Honestly, with all these shrapnel weapons and the renewed Hammer of Olympia RoW, I am extremely tempted to just build 60 tactical marines, add a bit of armour, maybe a unit of terminators and just start gunning stuff down. Don't know how playable that'll be but it at least looks good in my head.

 

My firsts lists for v2 will likely be some variant of HoO. Whilst I'm gutted it's lost the 4th heavy slot and now can't bring termites along for distraction shennanigans, it still seems like a decent row to work with. I'll probably start by running a mechanised list of tacticals and terminators for objective grabbing/dictating the tempo, with dreads/castellax/Iron circle lumbering just behind in support. Backline firepower slot is almost certainly going to be Tyrants (again) but I'm keen to work in a recon squad as combined with all the shrapnel from the rest of the army there could be a LOT of pinning.

 

It's going to be strange having to roll for morale tests when I get shot at though .

Edited May 30, 2022 by Trixie

[Galron]

I havent seen confirmed leaks yet since the Playtest rules. What changed in our RoWs? I was building for Iron fire but can easily do HoO with 8k+ of painted IW models at this point. Was thinking of printing up some Deimos rhinos (My existing rhinos are currently painted for another army) and going mechanized with a character with 18 Breachers in my Spartan, 3 tacticals in rhinos, a couple basilisks, quad launchers, and a Typhon at 3k. I want to say I have a tyrant squad as well but I might be getting my lists mixed up. Really digging that new Kratos. After the pain of the starter set and new book fades I might have to pick one of those up as well. Love my heavy toys. I have a Glaive as well, but I think the Typhon fits the role of Breach Assault Battalion better than a giant beam laser thing. I am also well aware in 1.0 Breachers really arent worth the points but maybe they will get a reduction in 2.0 and they look so cool.

[Gorgoff]

I havent seen confirmed leaks yet since the Playtest rules. What changed in our RoWs? I was building for Iron fire but can easily do HoO with 8k+ of painted IW models at this point. Was thinking of printing up some Deimos rhinos (My existing rhinos are currently painted for another army) and going mechanized with a character with 18 Breachers in my Spartan, 3 tacticals in rhinos, a couple basilisks, quad launchers, and a Typhon at 3k. I want to say I have a tyrant squad as well but I might be getting my lists mixed up. Really digging that new Kratos. After the pain of the starter set and new book fades I might have to pick one of those up as well. Love my heavy toys. I have a Glaive as well, but I think the Typhon fits the role of Breach Assault Battalion better than a giant beam laser thing. I am also well aware in 1.0 Breachers really arent worth the points but maybe they will get a reduction in 2.0 and they look so cool.

https://imgur.io/a/paBiyRk

[Galron]

Thank you, Gorgoff. Points aside it looks like both of my main lists arrived relatively unscathed, which is more than I can say for my other planned army lists or my IW terminator assault army led by the big guy and Golg. All in all, it looks like the only real change they made to the legion is the no longer ignoring shooting casualties for morale which admittingly was a big one to lose. Nothing like holding an objective with 20 marines in cover and just standing there, which is probably why they changed it to force a more mobile game. 

 

Iron Fire still looks as nasty as it has always been. Hopefully they dropped the points on breachers.

[Gorgoff]

I think Ironfire looks pretty :cussty know since A you can't deep strike a unit inside enemy lines and then bomb everything around and B almost all artillery got nerft hard so it isn't half as effective.

 

Hammer of Olympia seems like a joke. Shooting more with boltguns is in no shape or form enough to give up DS etc.

 

In leaked rules Breachers costed 155 points base which is kind of neat.

[SmorcInc]

I think Ironfire looks pretty :cussty know since A you can't deep strike a unit inside enemy lines and then bomb everything around and B almost all artillery got nerft hard so it isn't half as effective.

 

Hammer of Olympia seems like a joke. Shooting more with boltguns is in no shape or form enough to give up DS etc.

 

In leaked rules Breachers costed 155 points base which is kind of neat.

Pinning this time around lets you test every time you shoot though, which is kind of neat when your whole army has those pinning shots with rerolling 1s. Especially with the Tac marines getting that plus an extra shot at any range at all times.

[Gorgoff]

I know. It is the same like now but I don't think that one shotnof boltguns do so much more damage and if a two point per model upgrade to give them pinning is worth it. We will see I guess.

But a ROW who takes away tactic flexability by removing deep strike etc must gibe me a huge boost and I don't see that here. It makes your whole army very predictable.

But like I said we will see. There are so many factors I can't quite judge just from reading that I won't abandon anything 100% right now.

 

Having said that I do think that Tyrant of Lyssatra will be the WL trait my WL will always get. That way my Tyrants shoot one more shot with their missle launchers which is just nuts.

Easy autoinclude if you ask me.

 

Oh if you want to simulate Golg you could give him Tyrant of Doofus AKA Apolokron.

Fesrless but stupid just fits his narrative. ;)

[Sepher]

One possible synergy that has me excited about Hammer of Olympia over the Ironfire is shrapnel bolts and despoilers. Despoilers' Spite of the Legion is triggered by them charging a pinned enemy and in Hammer of Olympia we shouldn't have any difficulty triggering the Pinning effect. Spartans in Hammer of Olympia also ignore the results of Crew Shaken / Stunned so you could load one up with Despoilers and launch your unstoppable Spartan at whichever target you want, provided you can pin it.

[Skullheart]

I had my first game with the new Edition yesterday and oh boy did I get crushed. I still enjoyed the new edition and the changes it brought to the game. I thinkt it was mostly a mixture of an unlucky matchup, some bad dice and to much LOS blocking terrain.

I played a 2k List with Hammer of Olympia vs. a Raven Guard Recon Company.

Some points I was thinking about after the game:

• Shrapnel weapons are pretty bad against an army with mostly shroud bombs. in general the 6" loss on the bolter and the 12" loss on the heavy bolter is very rough.
  What are your experiences with the shrapnel weaponry?
• I'm torn on the Tyrant of Lyssatra WL trait. I really like the additional firepower it brings to an already strong unit (Siege Tyrants). On the other hand I disliked that I could not decide when to react in the shooting phase. I felt it robbed the unit of some protection it would otherwise get when you still have a reaction available.
  In the early game it wasn't a problem when all opposing units were at full strength and no one fired at them, but after a few turns I was forced to shoot at bait units with only a few models left and got shot with seeker or sniper shots afterwards. It is nice that the forced reaction is free though.
• Dreadnoughts are rough to handle when you don't have lots of AP2 shooting.
  What is your weapon/unit of choice to handle dreadnoughts? Seekers seem pretty good at handling dreadnoughts while remaining effective in dealing with other units. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Skullheart

[Gorgoff]

Plasma is the way to go against Dreadnoughts now I'd say.

 

[Reyner]

Got my first game with v2.0 on Friday against my mates Salamanders we're gonna try out 750 points. I'm going to try out two tactical squads, a forge lord, contemptor and heavy support squad with autocannons can't wait! 

[Lord Krungharr]

I haven't yet played but am very eager to roll my silvery Forgeworld Iron Warriors dice!  I have 13 Cataphractii Terminators and 10 Siege Tyrants, and a kitbashed Mastodon in the works, so I'll probably start with that and Pride of the Legion and Perturabo.

Then I have 2 barebones tactical squads, 5 Heavy Bolters, and 5 Melta Gunners, and am also making 10 Jump Pack dudes with magnetized arms to be a versatile Mortalis Destroyer Assault Squad.  Deepstriking potential and just really cool dual pistol wielding coolness, and I'll add the interesting weapons they can take too (like Toxiferran Flamers, Phosphex bombs, perhaps a couple Charnabal weapons? and dual Volkite pistols).

I also have a dual Kheres assault cannon Contemptor, but looks like I'll need to magnetize that one, probably with a lascannon arm and a fist/melta.  

For my other HQs, I have a Cataphractii Praetor/Consul, Cataphractii Primus Medicae, a Master of Signal and regular Praetor/Consul with Paragon Blade and Archaeotech Pistol.

I don't see any way to get Terminators to deep strike for the IVth however, and the Mastadon is expensive.  Did I miss something that would help us out there?  If not, probably I'll need a Spartan then sometimes.  

[Gorgoff]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:33 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

Terminators to deep strike for the IVth however, and the Mastadon is expensive.  Did I miss something that would help us out there?  If not, probably I'll need a Spartan then sometimes.  

Just read the new PDF they brought today.

Warmonger is back in the game.

[Galron]

Yay we got Kyre and Golg back. Golg doesnt seem as good as he was but he does have stubborn and doesnt have the massive misprints that some special characters ended up with like the Salamanders. 

So Medusas and basilisks are pretty dang expensive. I dont remember last editions price but I dont remember it being that high, then add in the cost of phosphex on top... So this leaves the question of if the Phosphex is worth it if you already have 3 quad mortars with them.

Hey Iron Havocs. Not sure if they are worth it over standard, will have to compare with the book in hand.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

Gonna do my first game this Sunday!  Very excited, possibly vs Salamanders.  I don't have anything but Perturabo, Cataphractii Praetor or Consul, Primus Medicae Cataphractii, Cataphractii Terminators and 10 Siege Tyrants, and 1 dual Kheres Contemptor.  

My Terminators are a unit of powerfists w a chainfist on the Sgt, and then 4 powers axes and a maul on the Sgt there.  But looking at the Iron Warriors armory I am liking the graviton mace and crushers actually.  Not sure if power axes are really that great.  Also should I be taking some combi-weapons on the terminators?  Are those changed to be shootable every turn, or still 1 shot?  Sooo much reading to do.  

Edited July 1, 2022 by Slips
Moved post from 1.0 topic to proper 2.0 thread

[Lord Krungharr]

Got my first game in today, 1500 points vs.....The Iron Warriors Mission: War of Lies, battlefield was the one with opposite quarters deployment and a 18" no-man's land in the middle.  I had Pride of the Legion/ Perturabo/ Cataphractii Primus Medicae/5 power axe Cat- terminators/ 5 fist Cat-terminators/ 5 Siege Tyrants/Contemptor w dual Kheres cannons.

He had the new Praetor but with a graviton mace/2x10 bolter w chain bayonet dudes/Rhino w 5 melta gunners/Spartan w 5 chainfist Cat-terminators/unit of 10 shrapnel cannons.

He went first and was way too aggressive the heavy bolters and tried to pick off Perty and his Tyrants w Medicae, I think maybe did 1 wound....then I REACTED and erased all of them.  The Spartan moved up and got a wound on my Contemptor.  Spartan hung in there and got rid of 1 Tyrant and put 1 wound on Perty too, but they Bitter Furied that turn 2 to knock 4 HP off.  But his Terminators assaulted and splatted all my Tyrants and Medicae, but lost 1 in return, and then all but his Sgt got splatted by Perty's hammer.

My fistinators went to my left and took on both his bolter units, and ended up wiping them out by turn 4, but then lost their last dude turn 5 I think.  Kharybdis glanced the Spartan to death with some lucky rending, and then proceeded later to erase melta gunners, and then his rhino, whilst my power weapon-inators ran really fast to the center objective.  Perty killed off his Praetor and that was it.  I rolled a 3 for the War of Lies bonus points, and got 2 points for my Primarch slaying his Warlord, so ended up me with 11 to his 3 I think.

Great first learning game!  Took like 5 hours from looking stuff up.  So I think making 'warscroll' cards for each unit, with pertinent special rules on there would be an excellent idea for 30k too, especially in learning mode.  But in general just speeds the game up to not have to look stuff up all the time.  The books are better organized than I remember some past books being, but still very time consuming.

Was it right that I just suffered 1 wound for a 1 failed invul save vs a lascannon?  Doesn't seem quite right but Dreadnoughts just have wounds now and we couldn't find anything saying otherwise.  The IVth's army trait is solid, the nearly constant Pinning checks from shrapnel is super annoying!  Bitter Fury + Perturabo = a rough enemy shooting phase :D  Tyrants are pretty awesome too.  Looking forward to painting some more Line type dudes, and making my Mastadon and the Destroyer Assault jump squad, and I'm thinking to deepstrike some Terminators a Dreadclaw or Assault Drill might be the ticket.

[Skullheart]

Yes you were right. Dreadnoughts only suffer multiple wounds (D3) against weapons with the instant death rule.
 

[Lord Krungharr]

3 minutes ago, EnsignJoker said:

I’m looking for advice on building the starter tacticals. I’m gonna save 10 for a heavy or special weapon kit that’s on order, but what are some good options for the other 30 for our legion?

 

Ive read that Vexillas and Nuncios are good to have, what about bayonets of either variety? I want to put them on for rule of cool, preferably 10 of each and 10 without for variety; are they totally not worth it or are they so low in points as to not matter? What should the sergeants be equipped with? Would a power fist be a waste generally?

This is an excellent question.  I went with all bolters for my 2 compulsory units.....chiefly because that's the arms my Mark IIIs came with, but also the chance for plentiful Pinning checks for the enemy.  I do like the chain bayonets for bolter guys if there are spare points, (my 1st opponent did kill a Terminator with them!) plus they'd look cool.  Can't believe chainswords are +5 points each!  I probably wouldn't put much else into a plain Tac Squad besides a melta gun or two, or flamers for a solid wall of death upon Overwatch.  Nuncio vox seems really good to have, Vexilla doesn't seem as good to me.

[Skullheart]

If I take the Vexilla depends for me on the size or point cost of the squad. If it's an already expensive unit 200+ point I'd consider a Vexilla because you can't be forced to flee of the board. (Already lost a terminator and veteran tactical squad due to not having a vexilla.)

The Voxes are pretty solid in any squad. The leadership penalty during night fighting is rough and having a way to counteract it is nice. 

For the equipment on the seargents, I tried out the grav maces, power swords or the power fists. Artificer is always nice to tank some AP 3 attacks.
So far I liked the powersword the most. You strike at initiative and have always a chance to rend on a 6. The powerfist also a solid choice.

The grav mace is in a weird place for me. It is very good against dreadnoughts and vehicles with high AV, but I don't think you want to charge these units with your tactical squads. Against infantry it still has AP3 but does not have any other bonuses like the sword(rending 6+) or regular power mace (+2S).

 

[spafe]

Hi, just starting out planning my IW lists, was thinking 20 man strong tacs with vox and vex, then the sarge with arty armour to tank shots but nothing more (to keep him cheap), and shrapnel bolters on all. Then thinking to have a apoc with the unit to keep them trucking.

Do you guys reckon this is a fair way to run them or is it better to give the sarge some offensive stuff, and is the apoc a waste of points?

 

Also thinking a block of breachers in a drill (with heavy flamers) with a apoc, 2 meltas, vox and vex and p/fist on the sarge. again, decent loadout or better to trim the extras and keep em cheap?

[Gorgoff]

You want augury scanners for big blobs.