HH 2.0 The Dodekatheon: IVth Legion Tactica

[Gorgoff]

I am torn on Lyssatra. The Recon idea sounds good but I still prefer Stoic Defender for the extra shooting reaction I guess.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Gorgoff

[MichaelCarmine]

7 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

I am torn on Lyssatra. The Recon idea sounds good but I still orefer stoic defender for the extra shooting reaction I guess.

Will be my go-to trait too, extra pinning on seekers, or Siege Tyrants, or Havocs, depending on what unit he joins is a really nice benefit!

[Brother Kraskor]

Yeah I guess Lyssatra maybe doesn't do much for ten Recons other than make them a bigger target - they can only kill the sergeant of a squad once! Seekers are a nice idea though, and they'd be mobile too. With the MoS, they'd be BS6 so they'd re-roll their Gets Hots too! You'd have to take the combi-disintegrator on the sergeant too for the lols. 

[Gorgoff]

I guess there are good uses for this trait but I am very pleased with Stoic.

Two shooting reactions is great. Speaking of.

The maximum is three but how do we get to three?

I haven't found any way so far to do that.

[Brother Kraskor]

Yeah Stoic is probably more universally useful. Lyssatra you'd have to build towards (though I do like the Seeker idea, not even especially expensive, bit of a glass cannon mind). 

 

And good point. I'm not sure I can think of a way to get to three reacts in any phase, excluding free Interceptor reacts via Augury scanners. 

[Brother Kraskor]

Fraters, anyone had much success with a Praevian? Thematic for IW and I am looking at certain things as potentially quite strong, Castellax with Darkfire cannon would surely love to benefit from the Iron Warriors +1S trait. Chuck Sunder on them from a Siege Breaker for extra nasty. The alternative is rapier laser destroyers which would be more deadly but a lot less tanky (though cheaper too).

Edited November 8, 2022 by Brother Kraskor

[Gorgoff]

Praevian with Darkfire Castellax wirks like a charme. 

[Brother Kraskor]

Good to know I'm not barking up the wrong tree then. What sort of numbers? Three is probably a nice round figure right, any more and the unit is going to cost 500pts altogether.

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, Brother Kraskor said:

Good to know I'm not barking up the wrong tree then. What sort of numbers? Three is probably a nice round figure right, any more and the unit is going to cost 500pts altogether.

I always play two but thats due to me only having two. Three could be even better. Costly but effective. 

PS: Apothecarii can take Grav Maces. Let that sink in. I will give mine one now. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Gorgoff

[Lord Krungharr]

12 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

I guess there are good uses for this trait but I am very pleased with Stoic.

Two shooting reactions is great. Speaking of.

The maximum is three but how do we get to three?

I haven't found any way so far to do that.

Perturabo gives us an extra one doesn't he?

[Gorgoff]

Done.

[MichaelCarmine]

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Perturabo gives us an extra one doesn't he?

With him being Warlord, yes. Which still would make it 2 at most.

[Brother Kraskor]

2 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Done.

 

It definitely looks cool (which is more than enough reason to field it anyway!). I am always wary of giving Apothecaries bling though as at the end of the day they're just regular marines combat-wise. 

 

Edit: Thinking more about Lyssatra. Multi-meltas would be a good recipient here, with twin-linked you'd be reasonably safe, and you'd double your output. Can only work on infantry so would have to be a HSS, delivery then becomes an issue though.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Brother Kraskor

[Lord Krungharr]

I found 3 more old 3rd edition obliterators so I can finally finish my 3rd squad of converted Cataphractii terminators, HOORAY! 

 

I currently have a unit of 5 w fists/1chainfist, and then a unit of 4 power axes/1 power mace.  This third unit has me thinking perhaps a different loadout, but what should I go with?  Seems like they can hold out til Init1 to strike w axes and fists, but wondering if I should perhaps do a power lances/combi-weapons (flamers or volkites), or lightning claw squad, for anti-infantry-mobs?  Or should I stick with the fists?

 

I run Pride of the Legion and Fury of the Ancients with my IW forces, so I'll have accompanying Dreadnoughts with Terminators I use to provide longer range fire support.  And when running PotL I have a Warmonger Consul to deepstrike if desired, plus 10 Siege Tyrants for more firepower.  

 

Also, I am very curious about the Mechanicum as some helpers for my Iron Warriors.  I see I can take a Praetor Warsmith upgrade to give him Master of Automata/cortex controller, so he could join a unit of Automata.  Are they not usually able to be joined by ICs?  Specifically interested in some Castellax, but would I then need a whole allied detachment of Mechanicum probably?  I thought for some reason there was a rule letting IW take a unit of Castellax or something else Mechanicum within their own detachment, but perhaps I'm thinking of some old rule.  Or are Contemptors just plain better than any old robot these days?  I don't have that book, but I sure like the looks of some of those robot units.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Lord Krungharr

[Gorgoff]

8 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I found 3 more old 3rd edition obliterators so I can finally finish my 3rd squad of converted Cataphractii terminators, HOORAY! 

 

I currently have a unit of 5 w fists/1chainfist, and then a unit of 4 power axes/1 power mace.  This third unit has me thinking perhaps a different loadout, but what should I go with?  Seems like they can hold out til Init1 to strike w axes and fists, but wondering if I should perhaps do a power lances/combi-weapons (flamers or volkites), or lightning claw squad, for anti-infantry-mobs?  Or should I stick with the fists?

 

I run Pride of the Legion and Fury of the Ancients with my IW forces, so I'll have accompanying Dreadnoughts with Terminators I use to provide longer range fire support.  And when running PotL I have a Warmonger Consul to deepstrike if desired, plus 10 Siege Tyrants for more firepower.  

 

 

Do you use two Rite of War in one army?

 

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Are they not usually able to be joined by ICs?

 

No. That's where the Cortex Controller comes in handy.

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Specifically interested in some Castellax, but would I then need a whole allied detachment of Mechanicum probably?

 

Yes.

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I thought for some reason there was a rule letting IW take a unit of Castellax

 

No

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or something else

 

The Praevian Consul allows you that. Just look him up in the Liber Hereticus.

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Mechanicum within their own detachment, but perhaps I'm thinking of some old rule.

 

Yes, it was a thing in 1ed.

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Or are Contemptors just plain better than any old robot these days?

Yes.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Gorgoff

[Lord Krungharr]

No I got FotA or PotL, but not both at the same time.   

 

Praevian is not one I noticed in the Consul section.  I'll have to peel some crisp new pages apart.

[Brother Kraskor]

53 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Praevian is not one I noticed in the Consul section.  I'll have to peel some crisp new pages apart.

 

I have just assembled one. I think probably Dreads are better in terms of absolute rules, but the robots are cool and thematic! 

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, those buzzsaw hands are the best...  But a ginormous hammer and shield are also pretty neat, and already IW.  Though those models are always expensive and hard to find now, and converting bits into the Domitar-Ferrum is a daunting task.   Might end up costing as much as FW!

[Brother Kraskor]

Yeah they do look awesome. I think they fit best with Perturabo, I am running loyalist so will steer clear of them probably. Castellax with darkfire cannon for me.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Brother Kraskor

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm gearing up for my next game and want to use my Pride of the IVth Legion.  Itll be a 2k game, and I can't decide if I should bring Perturabo or not.  My opponent will be fielding Salamanders, and said he doesn't mind fighting a Primarch.  

 

If I do bring Perty, I'll have to either cut 5 Siege Tyrants to bring a third Cataphractii squad, or do my 10 Tyrants but only 2 Cataphractii squads.   I'll bring a Primus Medicae, Warmonger for deepstriking a unit of Terminators, and a Contemptor w claw and melta cannon.  

 

Besides all that I think I have points for adding some combi disintegrators and maybe grenade launchers.   Or is that dum?   Definitely will be feeling the slowness.   I could leave Perty home and instead take a Praetor w paragon blade and disintegrator, and the 3rd unit of Terminators, and maybe my other Contemptor if he fits.  

 

Any suggestions are appreciated.   Do I just really need a Spartan ?!

[MichaelCarmine]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:57 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm gearing up for my next game and want to use my Pride of the IVth Legion.  Itll be a 2k game, and I can't decide if I should bring Perturabo or not.  My opponent will be fielding Salamanders, and said he doesn't mind fighting a Primarch.  

 

If I do bring Perty, I'll have to either cut 5 Siege Tyrants to bring a third Cataphractii squad, or do my 10 Tyrants but only 2 Cataphractii squads.   I'll bring a Primus Medicae, Warmonger for deepstriking a unit of Terminators, and a Contemptor w claw and melta cannon.  

 

Besides all that I think I have points for adding some combi disintegrators and maybe grenade launchers.   Or is that dum?   Definitely will be feeling the slowness.   I could leave Perty home and instead take a Praetor w paragon blade and disintegrator, and the 3rd unit of Terminators, and maybe my other Contemptor if he fits.  

 

Any suggestions are appreciated.   Do I just really need a Spartan ?!

Ask yourself - do you really want to put 1/4th of the points available into one model?

If you want him to have company, and a transport, that'll be half of your points. 

I would definately advice against that! ^^

 

Keep the points open for shooty Units, that's what we do, that's where we shine!

I've yet to play a PotL list, but from the first look,  i'd pay the few extra points and take a warsmith, keep him relatively close to your Contemptor(s), so he can "repair" them, if needed.

Depends on how you try to run the List, offcourse =] like, defensive, offensive...

 

 

 

[Gorgoff]

Unfortunately I have to admit to myself that I indeed want a Kratos battle tank.

Anyone has good tactics regarding this tank? It reads pretty mediocre to say the least with backbreaking point cost, amirite?

[Galron]

Just had a game using The Iron Fire vs Word Bearers dark brethren. It was kind of an intro game for me using a force I already had and just updated for 2nd.

I ran 15 breachers with 3 gravs, 2x14 tacticals, 10 Iron Havocs with autocannons, 5 dominators in a land raider, obligatory lascannon contemptor, a recon squad,  dual storm cannons levi, 2 scorpius tanks and 3 rapier with phosphex all led by Golg and a seige breaker. He had gal vorbak in a land raider, the mutated dreadnought, 10 cataphractis+Praetor + Librarian in a Spartan, 10 warp plasma cannon dudes, a dual lascannon contemptor, and 2x10 tacticals and 10 assault marines.

 

We also have a house rule in place that no more than 1 shooting reaction per unit, per player turn.

 

We played blood feud and had corner deployment and started with night fight. Unfortunately for him it was a slog. I didnt have to leave my corner, his plasma dudes were far out of range the entire game. My havocs were not. My Levi only got to shoot twice as I placed him poorly and he couldnt get past the rapiers.

 

He had first turn and his tanks all had searchlghts and killed my recon squad. I nuked his land raider first turn with Iron Havocs, the rapiers fragged the gal vorbek and pinned them. The scorpius pinned the assault squad and killed a gal vorbek. My contemptor immobilized and stunned his Spartan and pinned the guys inside. After this is was just a shooting gallery the rest of the game. he got closer and closer which just brought more and more of my weapons into range. I would agree that two scorpius might be a bit much.

 

The rapiers were pretty nasty themselves and did a decent amount of damage and pinning either by frag shells or the phosphex. The contemptor took a single point of damage and killed a Spartan, His demonic contemptor took way more fire than its point cost, to the tune of 4 multimeltas, 2 turns of 10 Iron Havocs, 2 turns of Land Raider fire, 2 volleys by the breachers with grav, and a Storm Cannon Levi. It never made it to close combat since it failed a charge on the breachers leaving it in the open.

[SlickSamos]

I've been musing what a 1,500 force for each legion would look like and one thing that struck me is that Veterans with a couple of Shotguns look reasonable for most forces.  However for IW they have a sneaky extra of  Shrapnel Bolters so there is a chance of forcing two leadership tests to nerf the opposing unit.  

 

Number of Shotguns vs. P of causing a test (BS 4 vs T4)

1 - 56%

2 - 80%

3 - 91%

4 - 96%

5 - 98%

Beyond 4, the rate really drops off so stopped at 5...

 

Number of Shrapnel Bolters (in Rapid Fire range, as I assume we're going to charge the target with our Vets) vs P of causing a test (BS 4 vs T4 & AS3+)

1 - 21%

2 - 38%

3 - 51%

4 - 61%

5 - 69%

6 - 76%

7 - 81%

8 - 85%

Again I got bored... Also vs AS2+ it's much worse (5 is 44% for example).

 

In my hypothetical list, with the maths above, I was thinking 3 Shotguns (91%), 5 Shrapnel Bolters (69%) & 2 Special Weapons (probably either Meltaguns or Plasmaguns) for an overall 97% chance of forcing an Ld test.  This means they'll have an elevated chance vs other Vet-like units which seems worth the 16pt investment into the unit.  (Big cavite, I have a super bad cold so I'm not certain I've got the following correct, but I think vs Ld8 they'll have 64% chance of failing at least one test & vs Ld9 it reduces to 59% - edit: lol I've definitely got this wrong)

 

With those sorts of odds, Recon Marines in a ZM IW force with 3 Shotguns, 5 Shrapnel Bolters & 2 Chainswords (plus another CCW on the Sergeant) could be a surprisely reasonable bully unit vs Seekers and Tacticals as they will dodge the return Rapid Fire due to Shroud Grenades then mess them up in CC.

 

I could see this mentioned anywhere else so I thought I'd put it here!

Edited March 30, 2023 by SlickSamos

[Gorgoff]

18 hours ago, SlickSamos said:

I've been musing what a 1,500 force for each legion would look like and one thing that struck me is that Veterans with a couple of Shotguns look reasonable for most forces.  However for IW they have a sneaky extra of  Shrapnel Bolters so there is a chance of forcing two leadership tests to nerf the opposing unit.  

 

Number of Shotguns vs. P of causing a test (BS 4 vs T4)

1 - 56%

2 - 80%

3 - 91%

4 - 96%

5 - 98%

Beyond 4, the rate really drops off so stopped at 5...

 

Number of Shrapnel Bolters (in Rapid Fire range, as I assume we're going to charge the target with our Vets) vs P of causing a test (BS 4 vs T4 & AS3+)

1 - 21%

2 - 38%

3 - 51%

4 - 61%

5 - 69%

6 - 76%

7 - 81%

8 - 85%

Again I got bored... Also vs AS2+ it's much worse (5 is 44% for example).

 

In my hypothetical list, with the maths above, I was thinking 3 Shotguns (91%), 5 Shrapnel Bolters (69%) & 2 Special Weapons (probably either Meltaguns or Plasmaguns) for an overall 97% chance of forcing an Ld test.  This means they'll have an elevated chance vs other Vet-like units which seems worth the 16pt investment into the unit.  (Big cavite, I have a super bad cold so I'm not certain I've got the following correct, but I think vs Ld8 they'll have 64% chance of failing at least one test & vs Ld9 it reduces to 59%)

 

With those sorts of odds, Recon Marines in a ZM IW force with 3 Shotguns, 5 Shrapnel Bolters & 2 Chainswords (plus another CCW on the Sergeant) could be a surprisely reasonable bully unit vs Seekers and Tacticals as they will dodge the return Rapid Fire due to Shroud Grenades then mess them up in CC.

 

I could see this mentioned anywhere else so I thought I'd put it here!

There are Shrapnel Boltpistols as well. I guess those would be better if you take them just for pre charge pinning, no?