HH 2.0 The Kyroptera: VIIIth Legion Tactica

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 hours ago, SyNidus said:

Cheers for this.

Looking at this...I actually really really like this, being able to gang up on an enemy character in challenge is pretty flavourful. And if we get to swing at i10, that's even better, give em a couple of Chainblades and you'd be hitting with a lot of breaching attacks before they get a chance to swing. And if just one of those gets through, you could be looking at Sgt down.

In terms of actual tactics, I think they still function the same way despoiler squads do.

Personally, I'm not sure how I would fit them in my current list, if the game moves towards more progressive scoring style missions (where having more line units becomes even more crucial), then I'd be looking to include a squad in my list. Though, seeing as how my list is a mechanized list, I'm not sure how well they would fit in as they'd have to ride in a rhino.

EDIT:

So I've had a chance to look at the actual rules, they keep Spite. But I'm not too keen on the fact that every model HAS to swap their chainsword for Killer's Blades (basically, breaching 6+ combat knives). This means that we won't be able to swap in 2 of the squad's chainswords for power weapons.

It's a bit of a sidegrade. On one hand, the 2 guys ganging up on the enemy character hit at initiative 10...which could be amazing if you manage to get the unmodified wound of a 6 for their 6 attacks (1A base + charging + 2CCW). There's a chance of them cutting down the character and freeing up your sgt to be able to put his own attacks into the enemy squad. Also, it is arguable to the killer's blades aren't too bad for this role because even if you swapped for power weapons (with a normal despoiler squad), none of the power weapons provide native AP2 (except for the axe, which defeats the whole purpose of striking at I10). 

Might still have to give it a try. 
 

 

The goonhammer review is a bit shallow in a lot of ways, as you've found out lol.

 

I look at them as a breaching delivery vehicle more than anything. Just some quick math shows despoilers average 7.42 unsaved wounds vs standard marines; inductii average 5.1 breaches and 3.3 unsaved wound. The challenge gangup is cool and all, but it's more of a nice bonus to have in the pocket.

 

I used 2 units of 15 yesterday, and basically ran into all their rules but the challenge; one unit failed their first morale test and ran right off the board after two more turns of failing (on me for not taking vexilas), while the other unit was able to grind down some castellax with attached archmagos and then cleaned up some tacticals when they charged with Spite. 

 

For 10 points a model there's very little to complain about, especially as the most attractive rites tend to fill up the compulsory troops with elite units, circumventing support in a way. Also when they get to double up on bloody Murder and Spite.

 

And there is still a bit of wiggle room with their wargear. You can swap for plasma pistols/volkite/hand flamers still, and the seargent can drop his pistol for a double melee load out.

[Helix]

Speaking about Inductii, does anyone know how true this statement is "you can still do the power weapon options because you choose the order you go through the weapon options" see 1:06:00 of the Terrain Kickers Podcast.

 

The idea being that you swap the chainswords out before being forced to swap them for killers blades.

 

It sounds gamey - but some at initiative+ AP2 would be reeeeeal nice considering how lackluster our legion special weapons can be.

[oldhat]

I keep tinkering on a list with Sevatar (still) and now that I am already dipping into Cataphractii with my main Terror list, why not? I am mostly there already - just need a few more models to be good to go.

 

How does this look?

 

HQ:
Librarian
Telepathy
[105]

 

Master of Signals
[95]

 

Sevatar (Libby)
Tartaros Command Squad
Standard Bearer w/ Thunder Hammer
4x Tartaros w/ TLCs
(Dedicated) Land Raider Proteus
Hull TL Lascannon
[680]

 

Elites:
Contemptor Dreadnought
Lascannon, Grav Gun
[210]

 

Contemptor Dreadnought
Lascannon, Grav Gun
[210]

 

Apothecary
Artificer
[55]

 

Troops:
Recon Squad
Augury Scanner, Nemesis Bolters
[145]

 

Recon Squad
Augury Scanner, Nemesis Bolters
[145]

 

(10) Cataphractii Terminators [LINE]
Sarge w/ TH, Trophies
6x Magna Combi Weapons & Power Axes
2x Chainfists & Combi-Bolters
1x Power Axe & Combi-Bolter
[430]

 

(10) Cataphractii Terminators [LINE]
Sarge w/ TH, Trophies
6x Magna Combi Weapons & Power Axes
2x Chainfists & Combi-Bolters
1x Power Axe & Combi-Bolter
[430]

 

Fast Attack:
(2) Javelins
MM & Las
[210]

 

Heavy:
(10) Legion Heavy Support (Apoth, MoS)
Lascannons, Artificer
[285]

[3000]

[SkimaskMohawk]

On 10/17/2023 at 1:18 AM, Helix said:

Speaking about Inductii, does anyone know how true this statement is "you can still do the power weapon options because you choose the order you go through the weapon options" see 1:06:00 of the Terrain Kickers Podcast.

 

The idea being that you swap the chainswords out before being forced to swap them for killers blades.

 

It sounds gamey - but some at initiative+ AP2 would be reeeeeal nice considering how lackluster our legion special weapons can be.

 

It kinda goes directly against the rules for inductii on page 225:

 

Quote

These templates are applied to a unit when the unit is chosen during army selection, before any options are selected for the unit.

 

You apply the template before picking any options, so night lord inductii are locked out of power weapons. 

 

Edit: completely different topic, but not going to make a double post; the Atrementar changes are the lightning claw options going down by 5 points. This means a single claw is free and two claws are 10, putting them only 45 points over tartaros with singles and 70 points over with doubles .

 

All the other baffling choices made in their umm, "original" 2nd incarnation remain there; completely average statlines, oddly high points, very restrictive applications of Cloaked in Murder (can't have attached characters and need to tee them up with another unit). Kinda makes you wonder how the people that reverse engineered them over (as GW claims the 2nd Ed rules were the originals) came away with such a different looking unit. One that doesn't make you feel depressed thinking about calling them the special unit over normal terminators.

Edited October 27 by SkimaskMohawk

[Galron]

Im slowly working on a Night Lord Terror Assault list now that the new box just came out and my DA project is winding down. Its mostly a labor of love since HH has kind of faded in my area and I dont have time to get games in all the time. I do enjoy painting dark blue and trying to get lightning right.

 

Sevatar

Contekar retinue  with sgt with claw and Land raider

 

Apothcaryx2. One with a jet bike, one with jump pack

10 Cataphractii preysight, 2 thunderhammers, 2 chainfists, 2 lightning claws, the rest power axes, + augury scanner and vexilla

 

10 Night Raptors 2 melta guns, 3 lightning claws, 2 chain glaives, the rest chain swords

Tactical squad x10 rhino with a lightning claw on sgt 

Tactical support squad x10 with plasmaguns, rhino, preysight, art armor on sgt + vexilla

Terror Squad preysight and 3 rotor cannons

 

Seeker Squad x10 preysight rhino, art armor on sgt

Skyhunter squad x6 plasma cannons, and art armor on sgt

 

Deredeo with plasma cannonade, ailos missile launcher, twinlinked heavy bolter and preysight.

 

Currently painting up loose models left over from my dark angels before I crack open new boxes so as of now I have 5 cata terms, some plasma dudes and night raptors built and in the painting process. I have more dudes in my old box(I have had night lords for going on 30 years now.) I'll check those before I build anything new new to see what I need.

 

So how does this look? Seems fairly mobile to me, it has decent fire power if not outstanding. I was on the fence about the tactical support squad as to whether it should be plasma or melta. Its funny how fast 3000 points can disappear when you throw in a 10 man block of terminators.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

If you are painting it as a labor of love then I'd say don't worry to much about how effective it may be. It looks fun, there are many varied units, So just some observations from me:

On 11/2/2023 at 6:39 PM, Galron said:

it has decent fire power if not outstanding

Right, there is some considerable firepower between all the plasmas and seekers. However, there really isn't much to threaten vehicles beside the LR's lascannons.

 

Terror squad looks a bit bare-bones. Its usefulness or lack thereof aside (I also don't care, I'm currently assembling 2 squads of my own), maybe consider giving them *something*, maybe some Chainblades, sarge w/ some upgrades?

 

In my casual opinion tactical support squad is not too appealing, they are really rather expensive - your squad costs close to what people pay for the ubiquitous and utterly devastating heavy support squad with lascannons. Unlike it however, you have to be much closer (and they are fragile for such a cost), and you can't really hurt vehicles. Of course, we are limited here to only 1 HS slot, so that can't be helped. Your tactical support squad can definitely be dangerous, but it's expensive, vulnerable, rather short ranged, kinda does >12" similar job as seekers. and plasma is worse this ed (Breaching 'stead of ap2 and 2W vets and termis).

But there is a silver lining - it is the best solution you have in the list for the ever-present dreadnoughts and it can be a useful distraction.

 

Contekar would get a nice buff from Sev's trait it they were to deep strike, it's like +40% dead marines from shooting on their opening salvo. They are not terrible in melee but alas, they are simply lacklustre against enemy heavy infantry (Commands sq, Termis, Unique units), they'd much rather bully some power armoured units instead. So it is completely believable that in a "mirror match" (Sev+Contekar vs enemy Praetor+retinue), Sev will win the duel but Contekar will get slaughtered.

 

Edited November 3 by Lautrec the Embraced

[Galron]

Yeah I only have the one heavy slot open, plus in my area there is a dim view of taking lascannon heavy squads. One will be tolerated(with some harsh words), two could cause people to not play you, similar to bringing two Scorpius tanks. We also have a home rule on no more than one shooting reaction per unit per turn(which includes the free augury scanner reaction) which greatly increases the variety of armies and rites of war that are viable. Drop pod assault isnt an ista-lose rite as the opponent shoots more with one squad than the attacking squad gets to shoot on his own turn.

 

Its a toss up on plasma or melta for the tactical support squad. I might build both eventually and see what works best. I really want to make a Heavy flamer HSS work but cant see any viable means outside zone mortalis.

 

I have reworked the list a little. I dropped the deredo dread and replaced it with a 10 man heavy support squad with autocannons and preysight, an apothecary and a master of signals. I also swapped the jet bikes to multi-meltas and removed their apothecary who was there mostly to help with their previous plasma being deadly.

Further, I broke the Contekar away from the command squad and gave them Heavy Flamers and will have them deep strike for the bonus. I think the flamers have a better stat line than the volkite weapons they come with. Then I created a new command squad with a standard and tossed them into the land raider. These all have twin lightning claws and volkite chargers aside from the SB who just has a claw and pistol. I anticipate these as a medium to light unit blender.

 

To afford these changes however I did have to drop the cataphracti termies to 5 dudes, the Terror squad that really didnt have a role, and a couple tactical support guys. 

 

Do the raptors lose Bloody Murder if I have the jump pack apothecary with them?

 

 

Edited November 14 by Galron