HH 2.0 The Mournival: XVIth Legion Tactica

[prime-alber]

I saw that outflanking units don’t give the rule to their transports so… My Long March list with with cataphractii in raider outflanking doesn’t work anymore. Do you people think this is a mistake that need to be fixed or a real change of the rule for balance?

[selnik]

On 7/7/2022 at 1:58 PM, prime-alber said:

I saw that outflanking units don’t give the rule to their transports so… My Long March list with with cataphractii in raider outflanking doesn’t work anymore. Do you people think this is a mistake that need to be fixed or a real change of the rule for balance?

I think this is intentional, with the +1 M given to make up for it. Unfortunate as your list sounds like fun!

[The Scorpion]

On 7/7/2022 at 2:58 PM, prime-alber said:

I saw that outflanking units don’t give the rule to their transports so… My Long March list with with cataphractii in raider outflanking doesn’t work anymore. Do you people think this is a mistake that need to be fixed or a real change of the rule for balance?

Wait, so do you mean Justaerin would technically have to outflank naked?

[General Zodd]

Just assessing what I want to be doing next, and my piddly little unit of five Reavers is looking like it needs some reinforcements. So far the Chieftain has a Power Fist, everyone else has Chainaxes, one of whom has a hand flamer, which I’m now potentially regretting, seeing as they’re S3! So, what to equip the rest of the unit with? Keep them lean and cheap, or splash some Lightning Claws or other melee weapons about? I also hadn’t really considered special weapons, but maybe a Meltagun or two would be worthwhile? Just conscious I don’t want to load up on points for a unit with 3+ and no invulnerable save. Thanks!

[depthcharge12]

Huh, just noticed a wacky thing with lightning claw equipped Justaerin. Let’s say you take two Justaerin in your squad and equip them both with two lightning claws and take the Black Reaving RoW.

 

You charge the unit into an already engaged combat and those two Justaerin get 7 attacks each (3 base + 2 for two LC + 2 rage) for 14 attacks with WS5 at S5 with shred and rending 6+. Even against other terminators, the weight of attacks plus rending from these two alone is pretty nasty, not to say of your PF/TH dudes that will follow up.

[Tyriks]

What RoW are people finding to be fun? I am starting some SoH and I want to make a list to start working towards but I'm a bit out of my depth at the moment. Not sure which RoW I should start with. 

[No Foes Remain]

If you're just starting out and are feeling that way then I'd suggest avoiding RoW for the time being, just until you get your head around the game. Just focus on a simple 1.5k-2k list that you can get some games in with, a few tactical squads, some support squads, a termie squad, a dread and a tank will get you covered for a list (depending on what models you have that is) unless there is a army theme you have in mind such as a ad-hoc Hunter-Killer company which would probably favour more of the heavier weapons (termies, dreads and tanks) or maybe an agressive company made up of Inductii used as 'disposable astartes' while having more elite units as a secondary and backline support.

[selnik]

On 7/19/2022 at 4:16 AM, Nemesor Tyriks said:

What RoW are people finding to be fun? I am starting some SoH and I want to make a list to start working towards but I'm a bit out of my depth at the moment. Not sure which RoW I should start with. 

If you do want to use a RoW, the Long March is probably more beginner-friendly as there are fewer restrictions (e.g. no need for a Master of Signals & more Fast Attack than Heavy Support choices as in Black Reaving). You can use this RoW with the AoD box contents.

[Tyriks]

3 hours ago, selnik said:

If you do want to use a RoW, the Long March is probably more beginner-friendly as there are fewer restrictions (e.g. no need for a Master of Signals & more Fast Attack than Heavy Support choices as in Black Reaving). You can use this RoW with the AoD box contents.

This is what I was leaning towards since there's no limitation to list building and it gives bonuses to units I was planning on bringing anyway. Thanks!

[Marshal Mittens]

Are Justaerin worth it over normal terminators? They seem very good, but they are SO much more expensive than normal termies, it seems like it would be hard to get them to earn their points back. I plan to paint up a squad just because their so iconic, but damn, they cost so much for a unit that dies as easily as any other terminator. 

[SmorcInc]

17 minutes ago, Marshall Mittens said:

Are Justaerin worth it over normal terminators? They seem very good, but they are SO much more expensive than normal termies, it seems like it would be hard to get them to earn their points back. I plan to paint up a squad just because their so iconic, but damn, they cost so much for a unit that dies as easily as any other terminator. 

Except because they're SoH they don't get Instant Death'd by power fists and Thunder hammers when their trait pops. That combined with decent base weapons, centurion grade statlines (better than a naked one for cheaper), special rules, and Dreadclaw access make them excellent units.

[No Foes Remain]

What is everyone's thoughts on the new Chieftains unit? I think they are quite cool, give them some Carason Axes and some artificer armour and it's a tough unit.

Only downside is that they don't get a dedicated transport so have to use up a slot to get them one, heavy support in a Raider.

[Noserenda]

Chieftains are alright, not exciting enough to shell out for Resin shields just yet but ill probably make some if we get plastic breachers.

Kitbashing some Justaerin and probably going to go melee focus with a multi melta, just torn between Claws and the fancy axes...
 

[No Foes Remain]

Boils down to shred on the claws or a 5+ chance at AP2, you could have some of both. That way if you end up facing some 2+ saves you can chance the re-roll for damage as well as the chance at AP2.

[Tyriks]

10 hours ago, Marshall Mittens said:

Are Justaerin worth it over normal terminators? They seem very good, but they are SO much more expensive than normal termies, it seems like it would be hard to get them to earn their points back. I plan to paint up a squad just because their so iconic, but damn, they cost so much for a unit that dies as easily as any other terminator. 

They have Furious Charge, which is great with claws or Carsoran axes, plus relentless, and with WS5. So they have a lot of little advantages. Is that worth 100pts? I don't know yet. But I could see it.

[Milosh]

Also keep in mind with the WS chart changes normal termies hit Justaerin on 5s.  This is a big deal to the point I dont even use normal termies. 

As for load out a couple thunders hammers are ideal due to brutal 2.  Need that vs contemptors and primarchs.

[depthcharge12]

Played my first 1500 point game running Long March RoW. I won when my IW opponent called it at bottom of T2.

I ran:

Abbadon

5 Justaerin 

2x10 tacticals

1 Rhino

15 assault marines

2 x Contemptors w/LC +CF

 

Contemptors surprisingly didn’t have much damage output though my opponent ran 3 squads of 8-10 terminators, but they did prevent my assault marines from getting swamped. I’m thinking chainfists on dreads are a bit of a trap choice. There’s not much you’ll need them for in the midfield except for a Spartan. Even against other dreads I think I’d prefer power fists for brutal 3.

-1 S for round 1 of melee is awesome even for non PF/TH dudes. Chainswords are great with shred and Lightning claws feel really good imho especially with +2 attacks for dual claws. Swords are a solid all around choice with rending.

Justaerin deep striking with Abby is great now, and I think I can synergize my list enough now to try Black Reaving. 3A base for Justaerin is bonkers. Carsoran axes performed better than I hoped as I rolled quite a few breaching 5+s. I think I prefer them over power axes now for a solid inexpensive choice. I do still want to try 2 Justaerin with dual LCs and some PF/THs.

Much to my chagrin, I finally learned how good rhinos are after snubbing them for 10 years lol. Great mobile LoS blocker and I (cheekily) used mine to block a charge from my opponent.

Just wanted to put my first game thoughts to paper. Still trying to get the hang of reactions.

[Marshal Mittens]

Carsoran axes seem like they would be worth it with AP2, but with AP3 I think I would rather have claws for marines (and 7 attacks on the charge), or fists for IDing other termies and killing dreads and vehicles. 

Lighting Claws especially seem like stiff competition with the axes. 

That said, I have not played with my SoH yet. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Marshall Mittens

[depthcharge12]

37 minutes ago, Marshall Mittens said:

Carsoran axes seem like they would be worth it with AP2, but with AP3 I think I would rather have claws for marines (and 7 attacks on the charge), or fists for IDing other termies and killing dreads and vehicles. 

Lighting Claws especially seem like stiff competition with the axes. 

That said, I have not played with my SoH yet. 

I think you’re right and I’m completely behind that. Ideally you want to take 2 TLC Justaerin, and 3 PF/TH if you have the points.

Twin lightning claws is amazing with Black Reaving if you can pull off a charge into an engaged unit. That’s 7 attacks per Justaerin with TLC and rage 2 :O 

[Noserenda]

In the end ive gone for two axes, one pair of claws and two chainfists. But then my entire playgroup bar me already owned two spartans before the plastic one came out :D 

[Tyriks]

How do people feel about tactical squads with chain bayonets? I've built all of my SoH tacticals with them so far because they're cool and I intend to lean hard on close combat. I'm aiming for the option to field two full squads with them and then maybe do a squad without. But I haven't played yet so I might regret this.

[selnik]

On 7/27/2022 at 3:54 PM, Nemesor Tyriks said:

How do people feel about tactical squads with chain bayonets? I've built all of my SoH tacticals with them so far because they're cool and I intend to lean hard on close combat. I'm aiming for the option to field two full squads with them and then maybe do a squad without. But I haven't played yet so I might regret this.

I've done similar, I expect my SoH to be in close combat a lot and so the chain bayonets will see a good deal of use. Even if they're just holding objectives in the back, the extra melee power from the chain bayonets + merciless fighters may let them hold objectives longer.

[Marshal Mittens]

Chain Bayonets have the same profile as a chain axe, which are accepted as good. I equip mine with them.

[Noserenda]

On 7/30/2022 at 7:15 PM, Marshall Mittens said:

Chain Bayonets have the same profile as a chain axe, which are accepted as good. I equip mine with them.

Well, you can get an extra attack with a chainaxe, which is a substantial bonus! 

Personally im not planning any tactical squads, which are probably the most likely use case because in most other cases they are similarly priced to chainswords and the like which are typically better.

[caladancid]

Just got in 20 Justaerin (from Tortuga Bay...you seriously have to check out those models they are incredible). Going to go banestrike combis with lightning claws or power fists. I will report back how it goes. I think I want to keep the combis just in case they get stranded.