HH 2.0 The Mournival: XVIth Legion Tactica

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

3 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Nah.

You want them to pop out and shoot stuff. Raiders are for close combat units in my book.

 

Huumm then I'll wait for a plastic one or use the Mantic's tunneler instead...

[Gorgoff]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:47 PM, AGRAMAR said:

 

Huumm then I'll wait for a plastic one or use the Mantic's tunneler instead...

Yes it is expansive, if you buy them at their website, correct.

[General Zodd]

Greetings fellow chosen of the Warmaster! I’m slowly working towards a Black Reaving force and currently converting up the obligatory Master of Signals. As he’ll probably be footslogging it with a tactical squad, or providing +1 BS to a Melta support squad, would you advise keeping him cheap as chips with no additional kit, or would you equip him with a power weapon (probably Carsoran Axe) just in case he has to have a word with someone?

 

Thanks!

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

In my personal opinion, i would try to have it as cheap as possible and behind a nice group of meat shields (for example a full tactical squad in rhino). I think is preferred use it more defensive than offensive so don't spend points in power weapons.

Edited March 8, 2023 by AGRAMAR

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Fraters, I have this question: Are Reaver Aggressor Squad worth the investment? I have a squad of 11 but every list or army display I see in the net use Reaver Attack Squads instead.

No one use them with jump packs?

[No Foes Remain]

I think it's more people don't realise they can, since the PDFs are known for being quite naff so no one has paid attention to it.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

3 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

I think it's more people don't realise they can, since the PDFs are known for being quite naff so no one has paid attention to it.

Oh, my gosh, really??

[Starlight_Wolf]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:38 AM, AGRAMAR said:

Fraters, I have this question: Are Reaver Aggressor Squad worth the investment? I have a squad of 11 but every list or army display I see in the net use Reaver Attack Squads instead.

No one use them with jump packs?

 

One thing I'd love to see (if it doesn't get FaQ'd in future) is for both Reaver squads to be made as line by the Black Reaving RoW. Not sure it will ever happen, though I did drop an email to the Heresy FAQ team regarding that, as it would make sense to have both Reaver squads as line rather than just Attack squads (partly as I have a 3k Black Reaving list which would very much appreciate the opportunity to have the option to pick between which flavour to bring :) )

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Yes, in the last version of the archive the added a magenta line saying Aggressor Reavers are also line with that RoW.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/RZRGS5ADYjwUb7Ry.pdf

3 hours ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

One thing I'd love to see (if it doesn't get FaQ'd in future) is for both Reaver squads to be made as line by the Black Reaving RoW. Not sure it will ever happen, though I did drop an email to the Heresy FAQ team regarding that, as it would make sense to have both Reaver squads as line rather than just Attack squads (partly as I have a 3k Black Reaving list which would very much appreciate the opportunity to have the option to pick between which flavour to bring :) )

 

[Starlight_Wolf]

Awesome, I really need to check the FAQs more often :)

 

Thanks for the heads up

[Starlight_Wolf]

Any advice on how to counter Blood Angels Day of Revelation lists? Other than Deny flank type deployment and heavy terrain boards, I'm struggling to find a way to lessen the impact beyond 'pray for good dice' in the face of several assault squads and deep striking Dreadnoughts. I feel I'm running a sub par (but fluffy as I can make it) list, but I'm just trying to figure if there's any way or is it just bring sufficient firepower so that the initial charges aren't wiping you off the board to allow for a counter attack?

Edited April 17, 2023 by Starlight_Wolf

[SkimaskMohawk]

In general, master of signals. Day of revelation is annoying because it's so overwhelmingly strong if you don't tech against it, but simultaneously gets punished super hard once you do. And it's a counter every Legion can do; one or two experiences getting disrupted and having no ability to keep out of deepstrike will force list changes.

 

Other than that, pinning off auguries and not castling those units is about it. It works really well until they jam the list with fearless units like the incadeus, sanguinius, and herald-led units.

 

 

[Marshal Mittens]

Master of signals, Augury Scanners, Lascannons, and plasma guns do a good job of shooting a lot of stuff to death before it lands. Multimeltas are really good too, but against infantry and dreads, the lascannons are just better. 

 

Shoot them to death as they come in. 

[Theredknight]

Any feedback here from the new book? 
 

il be arming up a chunk of my guys with carsoran Tabars. 
 

sadly I don’t think you can do it with terminators as they come stock with the carsoran crap axes, am I reading that right?

character looks ok, if a bit gaudy. 
 

Inductii worth a look at?

 

[Starlight_Wolf]

Haven't personally read it, but from a friend who goes to Tournaments pretty regularly our inductii look pretty solid as the option for chain axes for an extra point, and the buff for being around WS 5 units (Veterans, Reavers, Justaerin and Dreads anyone, just to name a few)

 

The warlord traits give some nice options 'Cast in gold' being my personal favourite as my Praetor has a habit of chasing enemy warlords and challenging them. Though the other one hasn't stuck in my head I think there was something worth looking into in that (will check when I get a second as am currently in work)

 

Regarding the carsoran weapons, I'm pretty sure the wording was 'any model which can take a power weapon (as an option) can replace it with x Carsoran weapon (Be it Axe or Tabar).

 

Haven't seen a great deal else, other than discussion that our Tank commander is apparently solid (I don't run tanks very much so I wouldn't know tbh, too busy charging in rhinos or on foot). All in all we came out quite well I think, based off the limited information I gathered. Nothing earth shattering, but some nice options to change up how the army works on a smaller scale

Edited June 2, 2023 by Starlight_Wolf

[MichaelCarmine]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:12 AM, Marshal Mittens said:

Master of signals, Augury Scanners, Lascannons, and plasma guns do a good job of shooting a lot of stuff to death before it lands. Multimeltas are really good too, but against infantry and dreads, the lascannons are just better. 

 

Shoot them to death as they come in. 

Actually, i'd say it is the other way around... Multimeltas are twin-linked, so they've got a much better hitchance and reroll wounds on Dreads within 12". Lascannons are better against Vehicles at ranges over 12" thanks to sunder, which does nothing against dreads.

[MichaelCarmine]

I'd say the best counter is the most broken thing this edition - Telepathy librarians in a unit with Augury Scanner. 

Other than that, Augury Scanner on everything! Even a ten man Tactical Squad can cause serious damage on a dropping JP unit with a free Fury of the Legion on Intercept.

 

[The Scorpion]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:29 AM, General Zodd said:

Greetings fellow chosen of the Warmaster! I’m slowly working towards a Black Reaving force and currently converting up the obligatory Master of Signals. As he’ll probably be footslogging it with a tactical squad, or providing +1 BS to a Melta support squad, would you advise keeping him cheap as chips with no additional kit, or would you equip him with a power weapon (probably Carsoran Axe) just in case he has to have a word with someone?

 

Thanks!

 

Given Rapiers are infantry, do you think these would be a good unit for the Master of Signals to join?

[Mardi]

How are people finding the SoH this edition with almost a year in?

 

I’ve got few low points games in, and can’t figure out how to make them work very well. Really difficult to get the legion trait to go off.

 

On paper they look like they are among the weakest legions with rather meh everything. But maybe I just don’t see the exciting bit.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Mardi

[Starlight_Wolf]

So far I've found us to be an aggressive midfield type army. We move up and take the midfield and weather what gets thrown at us the best we can. 

 

I've been playing with more of a mechanised infantry shooting slant, so mileage may vary, but I think we do have a solid trait to play to that effect in the Strength reduction, moreso against melee armies (but not ones that are built to make the best of their abilities, namely World Eaters and Blood Angels). Honestly, I'd say we have some good kit in some respects (Justaerin, Abaddon, Carsoran Tabars), but also some 'eh' options too.

 

I wouldn't say we're the weakest legion, by a margin, but we're certainly not the strongest either, though my group (and consequently experience) is quite limited, so again mileage may vary

[Mardi]

2 hours ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

So far I've found us to be an aggressive midfield type army. We move up and take the midfield and weather what gets thrown at us the best we can. 

 

I've been playing with more of a mechanised infantry shooting slant, so mileage may vary, but I think we do have a solid trait to play to that effect in the Strength reduction, moreso against melee armies (but not ones that are built to make the best of their abilities, namely World Eaters and Blood Angels). Honestly, I'd say we have some good kit in some respects (Justaerin, Abaddon, Carsoran Tabars), but also some 'eh' options too.

 

I wouldn't say we're the weakest legion, by a margin, but we're certainly not the strongest either, though my group (and consequently experience) is quite limited, so again mileage may vary

Well that sums up the problem for me quite well. The melee trait is not that good, since it’s so blood easy to negate with hold the line, and there’s no shooting buffs. What SoH do, most legions just do it better, even the supposed shooting legions. Maybe I need to invest in a telepathy librarian since it’s quite disheartening to see Justaerin robbed of the legion trait by the opponent’s cheaper heavy hitters, while if I try to use the reaction, it robs me the legion trait and only reduces one attack from the opponent. It feels like all the special rules are very dependent on the opponent not using any reactions. :P

[Theredknight]

I haven’t played with them yet properly. I played one game and decided that I needed to capitalise on their rule. The gang bang one. Really SOH are an assault army at heart, as you say not really a lot of shooting buffs. 
 

couple tac squads and Scorpius to start on the board, then drop in with everyone else.

Sacrificial assault squad units to weather fire in order for your meat grinder units to get in. Get those javelins and jetbikes in too so you can declare charges and gain the assault bonuses.
I think SOH are about coordination of attacks. Remember you only have to DECLARE an assault to get the bonus, not make it in. Stick javs out at 12” and hope you don’t roll double 6.
 

Traits ok, better than WE. Not sold on Inductii yet.

 

Good shout with rapiers, a cheap H bolter carrier with a MOS in it could do some work.

[Starlight_Wolf]

3 hours ago, Theredknight said:

I think SOH are about coordination of attacks. Remember you only have to DECLARE an assault to get the bonus, not make it in. Stick javs out at 12” and hope you don’t roll double 6.

 

Black reaving is a huge example of this, you only get the real benefit from Rite, if you charge something if you charge a unit already engaged, meaning you really have to work hard to leverage that advantage. I haven't used BR yet, purely as I lack the fast attack options to build the list (would likely go for either flavour of bikes due to hit and run in that instance, or Seekers if you want to blow something up that the rest of your army can't take).

 

Long March is pretty nice when running infantry heavy (which I feel we're geared towards based on legion trait and RoWs) as movement 9 Dreads (even if only for one phase) is very nice, though it could do with extending into the fight phase to give a little extra on charge ranges (assuming this is so we don't move too far from the Tactical flexibility (Sometimes I wonder if we're intended to be 30k equivalent of 40k Ultramarines?) or impinge on assault armies design space, which I understand, but still begrudge, since we have more specialised melee units, but hey...).

 

The warlord traits all lean into melee in most respects (Chosen by the Dark Gods, Wolf of Luna, the new SoC traits (namely the challenge related one) iirc) to, but we lack the solid punch, unless you are clever with application of our forces (goes without saying, but the more I've played the more I've noticed, we as a legion, NEED to dog pile in an assault, or you get tarpitted or wiped). As for gunlines, we need to make the best of deep strike or mechanise to stand half a chance, hence my thought, that we play the mid field and we hold it aggressively, through force projection (This may be a hold over from my 40K space wolf play style as they seem quite similar, though it could just be I'm not adapting and that playstyle has done 'ok' so far.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Starlight_Wolf

[The Scorpion]

On 4/18/2023 at 2:50 AM, SkimaskMohawk said:

In general, master of signals. Day of revelation is annoying because it's so overwhelmingly strong if you don't tech against it, but simultaneously gets punished super hard once you do. And it's a counter every Legion can do; one or two experiences getting disrupted and having no ability to keep out of deepstrike will force list changes.

 

Other than that, pinning off auguries and not castling those units is about it. It works really well until they jam the list with fearless units like the incadeus, sanguinius, and herald-led units.

 

 

Can the proteus exploraror also work?

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, The Scorpion said:

Can the proteus exploraror also work?

 

Definitely, though the explorator web doesn't kick in since they don't make a reserve roll for DoR. If you're already running one then there's no need to swap it out, just make sure to get the vox array.