HH 2.0 The Mournival: XVIth Legion Tactica

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

11 hours ago, TheDreadfulSagittary said:

 

Thanks for the tip with the Scorpius, I might give it a try. If not with the Sons, then with my Iron Hands. I think that the main missing point in my army is something that is effective against tanks and/or heavy infantry.

 

As for the Sicarans - I try to stay away from the bigger resin kits, mainly because of their price tag. I love the chassis, they look amazing and I didn't think that any of them would be a bad decision.

 

Something also on my mind - what about a Vindicator?

 

 

That's what I was thinking about. Only a bare minimum, just for fun, but still effective. The battle box seems to be a great starting point. Maybe a Velantis Storm Section and an additional tank to them, but nothing more (maybe even less - I didn't like the heavy Sentinel :S )

 

 

Sounds nice! I hope that you might share the performance of your Sicaran (and of course the rest of the army) with us later :)

Depends of your tastes. Demolisher cannon is quite short rage for an artillery weapon, and only 1shot  but is Str 12, Sunder and Brutal 3, plus Rending 6+ and Blast 3'. And you have 3 models in plastic to choose. 

Magna Laser Destroyer is just Str 9 but Ordinance 3, Twin-Linked, and Exoshock 6+ with much better range, 36".

 

One is great to try to destroy buildings, terminator and dreads, and of course groups of infantry, specially elites. The other one is great as tank hunter and similar. What you need more? Choose.In any case, as Rhino chassis based tank, I think is better use them in pairs if you can afford it.

And if you  get the Horus Heresy kit, try  to make the weapons interchangeable. Always

Edited January 29 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[WrathOfTheLion]

On 1/28/2024 at 5:04 PM, TheDreadfulSagittary said:

Sounds nice! I hope that you might share the performance of your Sicaran (and of course the rest of the army) with us later :)

I'm just starting Sons of Horus, so it'll be a more restrained army, with mostly just core options. We'll see how it goes, I'm just excited to get them onto the table in any capacity.

 

I'll be playing one of my good friends, who'll probably be taking his Ultramarines.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I ended up playing my first game with SoH, it was definitely a blast. My Sicaran got blown up in one shot from a Contemptor with a Gravis Lascannon, so it didn't really do much :D

 

The army did pretty well, we played Tide of Carnage, which was pretty fun. I took two tactical squads, one in a Rhino, a Tactial Support squad of 10 with Rotor Cannons, 5 Cataphractii with 2 chainfists and 3 powerfists + a Cataphractii Praetor w/ Paragon Blade in a Land Raider, a Contemptor and a Sicaran. The Land Raider I thought did really well, it trashed some vehicles, surviving towards the end. We had to cut it short at turn 4 because it was late and we were doing volunteer work beforehand, but I'd've likely been able to get the LR into their deployment zone T5 to deny them the victory points for that. I had more units at the end, so it was SoH 4 vs UM 3.

 

All in all, I'm enjoying the army, and I'm going to try to get more games with them soon.

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

On 2/24/2024 at 4:48 AM, WrathOfTheLion said:

I ended up playing my first game with SoH, it was definitely a blast. My Sicaran got blown up in one shot from a Contemptor with a Gravis Lascannon, so it didn't really do much :D

 

The army did pretty well, we played Tide of Carnage, which was pretty fun. I took two tactical squads, one in a Rhino, a Tactial Support squad of 10 with Rotor Cannons, 5 Cataphractii with 2 chainfists and 3 powerfists + a Cataphractii Praetor w/ Paragon Blade in a Land Raider, a Contemptor and a Sicaran. The Land Raider I thought did really well, it trashed some vehicles, surviving towards the end. We had to cut it short at turn 4 because it was late and we were doing volunteer work beforehand, but I'd've likely been able to get the LR into their deployment zone T5 to deny them the victory points for that. I had more units at the end, so it was SoH 4 vs UM 3.

 

All in all, I'm enjoying the army, and I'm going to try to get more games with them soon.

 

What where you up against? 

I'm currently building up my new Assault Marines (still waiting for some shoulder pads...), maybe I will also get a game with the Sons. The local players are aiming for a Zone Mortalis scene, so might reconsider some options, but still looking forward to field at least part of my army! :)

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I want to add some extra tanks or just one tank to my Soh Army, but I'm not sure what to do. Now I have, just in tanks:

- 3 Rhinos (1 can be a Damocles command Rhino)

-3 Predators ( All weapon options)

-2 Scorpius (Can be turned into Rhinos if need)

-1 Vindicator

-1 LR Spartan

-and 1 LR Proteus

 

 

I was thinking in something big, like a Typhon or a Cerberus. One will be enough. But Kratos is quite cool. Maybe another Land Raider or a Vindicator?No more Rhinos or Predators.

 

What do you advise me?

[The Scorpion]

On 4/13/2024 at 5:55 PM, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

 

I was thinking in something big, like a Typhon or a Cerberus. One will be enough. But Kratos is quite cool. Maybe another Land Raider or a Vindicator?No more Rhinos or Predators.

 

What do you advise me?

Ever since Book 1: Betrayal, I've thought that the Typhon looked badass in Sons of Horus colors. You already have a Spartan. It all depends on in you want more uniformity or more variety with your vehicle chassis.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Let's say more variety in gaming options. The central bulk of my tank force is based on Rhino chassis. I also look for something polivalent, ready to can be used in other roles exchanging few pieces, like the Scorpius 

[The Scorpion]

Not strictly tactica, but how do y'all do the XVIth legion's trim?
Is it black?
Is it gold?
Is it steel colored?

I noticed that some trims are gunmetal when the Dark Emissary came out, and I have not been unable to unsee it ever since.

Here, for instance, the SoH have a pastel mint plate. Their trim is mostly gold or black. But black would not work for a dark green color scheme.

Here by comparison, the trim is wholly silver.
the old BB art depicts it as black, the new art as gold.

Which one do you do?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Depends a lot of the units. HQ and characters with gold, bronze/brass for centurions snd sarges, silver/steel for some units (specially elite units), black troops and vehicles, specially vehicles. My vehicles will be more black than sea green/veridian

 

Anyway, I'm trying to avoid using the same scheme of my BL, like silver/steel in legs and arms, golden in shoulder pads, mix in the chest area, top knot and lenses red, black the rest of the armor.

 

The first pic is Duncan Rhodes army. I know it quite well. Think that every player adds or changes things, making flexible. After all, we're from Cthonia not Ultramar!

Just kidding. I think nowadays  is not like old times, when the GW Studio owned an official army. Look fate of Barbarus, they used they very own armies, not picking something from Studio's shelves.

Every player and/painter adapt the colour scheme to their own tastes and stuff.

Edited April 22 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[The Scorpion]

5 hours ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

 

Every player and/painter adapt the colour scheme to their own tastes and stuff.

As they should. But it still messes with my OCD immensely that sometimes the trim is black and sometimes it is gold.

[Mardi]

I also use different rims for different types of units. Recons and the like get black (dark dull gunmetal) rim, because it doesn’t make sense for them to shine. Otherwise I mostly use the same metallic colours GW uses, but not yellowy gold, because I think it’s ugly and too kitsch.

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

How many Assault Marines would you recommend in one unit? Is it worth to run them as a big "horde" unit, or keep them small?

I want to diversify my troop choices, as I have 30 Tacticals, 5 Recon Marines are in building phase and I have 10 AM-s waiting. Should I buy a second box of jump troops?

 

And a follow up - how do you equip your jump troops?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I think 10-15 are good numbers for an assault squad. I usually deploy 1 or 2 squads, 10 members strong with an apothecary with power weapon. Sargent with lightning claws and a pair of marines with power weapons (Not power axes). And of course the apothecary.

A second box is always welcomed, so just buy it. And maybe even a third.

 

Anyway, you must also think in those thing, with your army:

-Characters with jump pack? And what type of characters? Chaplain, Moritat and Librarian are the best options,I think.

-And other units with jump packs, like Destroyers or assault Reavers?

 

I have two squads of AM, one of Reavers with jump packs and some characters with jump packs too. Maybe, at the end of summer,I  can add a Jumping Destroyer squad too.

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

On 6/28/2024 at 2:49 PM, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

I think 10-15 are good numbers for an assault squad. I usually deploy 1 or 2 squads, 10 members strong with an apothecary with power weapon. Sargent with lightning claws and a pair of marines with power weapons (Not power axes). And of course the apothecary.

A second box is always welcomed, so just buy it. And maybe even a third.

 

Anyway, you must also think in those thing, with your army:

-Characters with jump pack? And what type of characters? Chaplain, Moritat and Librarian are the best options,I think.

-And other units with jump packs, like Destroyers or assault Reavers?

 

I have two squads of AM, one of Reavers with jump packs and some characters with jump packs too. Maybe, at the end of summer,I  can add a Jumping Destroyer squad too.

 

Thanks for the advice, then I will get a second box for them  I try to be a bit different with my Sons, fast moving, tip-of-the-spear type with lots of bodies on the right place. I hope, that we will see some other fast attack choices too, because that's where Marines are lacking in plastic...

I also wanted some armoured support, but I choose a Solar Auxilia armoured ally instead - just for fun 

 

As for jump pack characters... I didn't have any, but I would run my Chaplain with them. Yeah, currently without an actual jump pack 

Other units not so much. Or, at least not for now.

 

I would also like to add a named character to my army. Marr or Aximand are on top of my list - because I love the sculpts... 

Edited June 29 by TheDreadfulSagittary

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Marr is better option,in term of rules, than Little Horus, in my personal opinion 

Edited June 29 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

How good/useful can be a Consul Warmonger in a SoH list,specially in one that uses the legion's RoW?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

A personal thought. I don't want to create any controversy with this, first of all.

Just to comment, that, reviewing lists here and on other websites, I have the impression that the SoH lists are a bit stagnant, compared to some other legions.

I mean that, as we usually say in Spain, everything goes to "jack, knight and king" to win the day: Black Reaving, Reavers, Abaddon and Justaerin. I don't see much variety or using other units as backbone, or other rules or characters that anyone has access to. And that is, if I'm not mistaken, the Legion with the most additions in terms of characters, rules, etc. At least, from the Traitor Legions.

 

I have the personal impression that there's very little experimentation, because there is a combo, one combo, that is easy to put together and effective on the table.

 

And I personally don't have many other references, beyond my own experiences.

Just that.

[Mardi]

 

A personal thought. I don't want to create any controversy with this, first of all.

Just to comment, that, reviewing lists here and on other websites, I have the impression that the SoH lists are a bit stagnant, compared to some other legions.

I mean that, as we usually say in Spain, everything goes to "jack, knight and king" to win the day: Black Reaving, Reavers, Abaddon and Justaerin. I don't see much variety or using other units as backbone, or other rules or characters that anyone has access to. And that is, if I'm not mistaken, the Legion with the most additions in terms of characters, rules, etc. At least, from the Traitor Legions.

 

I have the personal impression that there's very little experimentation, because there is a combo, one combo, that is easy to put together and effective on the table.

 

And I personally don't have many other references, beyond my own experiences.

Just that.

Lack of obvious alternatives, I would guess too. Justaerin and reavers are ok, but definitely not a must have. People also tend to kit them out in a way that don’t utilize their strenghts properly. Other legions often get the best options as default.

 

Chieftains are a scoring unit without any RoW. Take them on their own with 7-10 power fists and an apotechary. They have better chances of surviving in the first round of combat than Justaerin against most units, and will absolutely murder all non-termie and suzerain infantry squads while being somewhat cheap. You do have to buy a transport or a warmonger though. Normal termie squads with a chaplain are also very survivable and hit hard for relatively cheap.

 

The Long March can look like a bit crap, but… few cheap tartaros squads or Justaerin with combi-meltas will put pressure on the opponent’s backline while your dreads walk forward and tanks provide fire support (scorpii, a Kratos or two etc. can do some heavy lifting). Land speeders are very good for this list to supplement HSS’s that everyone seems to take. People sleep on the fast attack choices, but they can return fire and are relentless.

 

A drop pod assault list with chieftains, dreads, bayonet tacticals, breachers, inductii, support squads, destroyers, dreads, termies with combi-meltas and scouts etc. can be a terrifying list too for example, because they are immediately up close and personal. Just where the SoH want to be. Just remember that you can also take close range shooting options to soften up particularly tough melee units.

 

Dreadclaws and Kharybdis can ram too. E.g. an indomitus squad can be dropped off by a deep striking or drop pod assaulting dreadclaw. The drop pod can then move over or ram some tacticals the next turn, while the termie squad blows up a tank or some other high value targets.

 

Abaddon is a fine blender, but expensive and doesn’t do much else. Lascannons and Meltas don’t care about one turn fnp buff. You can deep strike justaerin with a regular jump pack praetor too. Marr, Ashurhaddon and Loken are far more valuable characters and way cheaper.

 

You can also play to all the leadership buffs you get from WLT’s and abundant banners, and keep shooting while your opponent runs away. Decurion Lanius will help with this too.

 

All in all, SoH have a lot of options to be good (don’t be ”that guy” tho). They’re just not always as obvious. They are well suited for bullying MEQ and trading well, although not always winning, against elite units, if you know what to do. Hopefully the legion gets more clearly defined in the next iteration.

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Chieftain squads are HQ,Retinue,Heavy and they don't hace access to dedicated transports. You can purchase it even if they don't go as retinue of SoH Master of the Legion?Not sure. Oh yes,you can. Still cost an HQ slot.

 

And still are a really good unit.

Edited October 2 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[Mardi]

435 points total for a squad with 7 PFs and an apotechary, that will absolutely murder any non termie (or TH suzerain) squad isn’t terrible. You can even throw them against elite termies and they trade well against many. Sure, it’s an HQ without a DT, but it comes with a legion banner for LD10 bubble, and it’s line, and can sweep. It’s sort of an anti-bully unit, but no a true death star.

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

I want to put an Assault Marine unit in my list, but how big of a squad would be viable? 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Army points? 

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

57 minutes ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

Army points? 

 

On a 2000-3000 points level. Currently it seems that there would be Scorpius MT-s in my opponents list, so I'm a bit afraid of template weapons, but I still love the concept of them running around the battlefield.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Then, between 12 to 15. I usually run one unit of 12 plus an apothecary 

Edited November 22 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf