HH 2.0 The Ravenspire: XIXth Legion Tactica

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Been thinking of last minute changes to the army for the LVO. Part of me wants to drop the Deliverers for a dread and Leviathan

 

Do I give up a deepstriking unit for a 2nd~3rd dread, and second Levi?

[Varyn]

Deepstriking allows you to get a unit right up the board/deploy to react to your opponents early moves which can be very useful, whereas a leviathan can be useful for attracting focus. It’s a difficult choice!

 

on a side note, it’s quite funny that you can take a nemesis bolter with dual ravens talons, I have no idea how you’d shoot anything! It’d be like wearing oven gloves 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Varyn

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Like this

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Day one list did fairly well for the LVO narrative. Learned a lot, got to play against a bunch of interesting players and lists.

 

Got all major points for the loyalists. Tomorrow is 3k day and I feel there's going to be some cheekier lists and possibly a bit more swingy. I'll say this, failing psychic tests is no fun. Especially when it's at crucial moments.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Day 2 was awesome. I played against some rather interesting lists to be honest. First game was Word Bearers second game was Night Lords. They decided to only play 2 games so more beer could be drank.

 

Overall went 5 - 0 scoring a lot of campaign points. We had a remembrancer that we had to keep a live so they could witness great feats. All in all it was a great game and atmosphere.

 

From opponent's perspectives I think they were caught off guard by how absolutely brutal the RG RoW actually is. Day 2 I opted to give the librarian divination over telepathy... Sniper plasma is wild by the way...

 

MVPs for both days are Dark Furies (as they should be) and my Seekers because people just got spun against S5 BS 5 re-rolling 1s and precision 4+ to eat augury scanners, characters, and apothecaries.

 

I think overall the traitors have decimated the loyalists in the campaign, but my little sneaky-boy war band handed out the Emperor's justice.

[Mandragola]

Excellent work, Frater. A 5:0 record, even at a narrative event, is a real success.

 

Thanks for the lessons you've shared so far. I'd be interested to hear any more thoughts or suggestions you may have. Any pictures of your games would also be great to see.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

We are doing the Mega battle right now. I may join in later but for now I'm just relaxing. I went hard in the paint last night...lol

 

I'll break down each mission and post pictures later.

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

Excellent work, Frater. A 5:0 record, even at a narrative event, is a real success.

 

Thanks for the lessons you've shared so far. I'd be interested to hear any more thoughts or suggestions you may have. Any pictures of your games would also be great to see.

 

I've seen some salt online about how many non narrative/obviously refined competetive lists found their way into the narrative event. Some armies can make very strong lists out of their thematic focus, while others can't; it creates a bit of a lopsided effect and pretty skewed games in some cases. 

 

So a 5-0 against stuff like the world eaters list with 3 contemptors and 2 Levi's is a bit different than a  5-0 against stuff like the morbus bombard death guard list, swift blade night lords, or metallic blue night lords with a bunch of sabres. One is really commendable feat; the other is taking a tournament list to a narrative event. 

[MichaelCarmine]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

I've seen some salt online about how many non narrative/obviously refined competetive lists found their way into the narrative event. Some armies can make very strong lists out of their thematic focus, while others can't; it creates a bit of a lopsided effect and pretty skewed games in some cases. 

 

So a 5-0 against stuff like the world eaters list with 3 contemptors and 2 Levi's is a bit different than a  5-0 against stuff like the morbus bombard death guard list, swift blade night lords, or metallic blue night lords with a bunch of sabres. One is really commendable feat; the other is taking a tournament list to a narrative event. 

A real shame, that there are no Batreps on Youtube or so... You find plenty from 40k, but who watches that? oO xD

 

Do you have any source where to read a bit about army compositions and the games in general?

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 minutes ago, MichaelCarmine said:

A real shame, that there are no Batreps on Youtube or so... You find plenty from 40k, but who watches that? oO xD

 

Do you have any source where to read a bit about army compositions and the games in general?

 

Just individuals posts on the various Facebook groups like crusade and heresy, and heresy tactics. 

 

Will probably hear more in the evening as people are wrapped up, so far it's a couple of guys like John Teves sharing photos and some experiences.

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Well everyone here has been pleasant. Everyone has also had good fun. Any complaints that I've seen are from salty people who aren't even at the event. And I'm just going to leave it at that. I'll break down my opponents and how cagey some of the games actually were.

[Mandragola]

I do find it awkward to know how to pitch a list for narrative events. You know some people will turn up with seriously tuned lists and others will barely know the rules. Ideally you could come with two lists, for both kinds of opponent.

 

I'm going to Warhammer Fest in late April. GW themselves never usually give any guidelines or restrictions on lists so I expect to see the full spectrum. We'll see what happens, I suppose.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Well we can always fall back on every Legion have every available unit.

 

But anyway, no one complained, literally everyone had fun and were excited to get games in. Some armies got like crazy awesome wins and didn't dump on anyone

 

Edit: for the record the escalation had restrictions for day 1 vs day 2. No named characters on either day 1 or 2, no LoW on day 1 and no allies and the only flyers you couls bring day 1 had to jave transport capacity. Day 2 you could bring a LoW or allied detachment as well as all other flyers.

 

And I brought an alternate list encase people felt like my list was too powerful. I -actually- talked to my opponents after each game and not one person said my list was overpowered, just that they were surprised that Raven Guard are so good. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Gorgoff]

7 hours ago, Mandragola said:

I do find it awkward to know how to pitch a list for narrative events. You know some people will turn up with seriously tuned lists and others will barely know the rules. Ideally you could come with two lists, for both kinds of opponent.

And than there is the different perception of what a tuned list is. I ran into an optimised list in my last event and the player felt he would play a harmless one. That makes it difficult sometimes. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Gorgoff

[Mandragola]

Ok well, since everyone actually at the event seems to have had fun, let’s leave the conversation about whining (about whining) alone for now. Dont-Be-Haten has killed a lot of traitors and should be congratulated for doing so, especially here in a tactics thread. 
 

Now let’s see some pics!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Day 1 was 2,000 points. Here was my list for day 1. Side note about the Telepathy Librarian, I only attempted to pin 2 units the entire time I used Telepathy on day 1. I mostly used his ability to stop reactions in the movement phase when I dropped down to stop augury interceptors or stop over watch/return fire from happening. I think Avelek periled in every game haha. I feel as though the psychological advantage a Telepathy librarian gives defensively, allows for an aggressive play with infiltrating the seeker squad. At least, that's my conclusion after playing day 1. I think in total Alex said there was around +/- 70 people there? We were expecting 90 for the heresy event.

HQ

Praetor with Corvid Pattern JP, Dual raven talon's Nemesis Bolter & Infravisor Hidden Hand Warlord Trait
Telepathy Librarian with Cameleoline Cloak and Psychic Hood

Elites
Apothecary with Artificer Armor & Infravisor
Contemptor with Gravis Melta & melta gun
Contemptor with 2 fists and plasma blasters

Troops

Recon Squad with Nemesis bolters & Infravisor
Tactical Squad with Powerfist, Artificer Armor, 9 Chain Bayonets, and vox
Tactical Squad with Raven Talon, Artificer Armor, 9 chain bayonets and vox

Fast

10 Dark Furies with 3 choosers

3 Preteus Land speeders with Heavy Bolter & Multi-Melta

10 Seekers with Artificer Armor.

I put the librarian and and the apothecary in the seeker squad.

Here's how my matches lined up Day 1. We were given primary objectives that we chose from the BRB, and we could use each primary once and only once. Secondaries we could choose any number of times, all of these you kept secret from your opponent due to the missions high command had given to each legion. We also had a remembrancer mechanic which gave additional campaign points for witnessing feats of strength. Basically you gained additional CP if the model was within 18" of something happening such as slaying the warlord, watching a unit get swept, watching a challenge etc. 

Round 1 was against Alpha Legion. Deployment Clash of the Line, Primary Objective Shatter Strike, Secondary 1. Slay the Warlord 2. First Blood

From a narrative perspective, this was the initial land fall, we were recon squads moving through the bombed out city scape. Comms were being interrupted and we were each homing in on one anothers location.

 

Eric's list consisted of an exodus, a saboteur with lightning claw? and combi-melta (I believe) a champion, a javalin with las cannons and MM, a spartan, 2 rhinos with tactical marines, a lascannon squad with augury scanner, 2 head hunter kill teams each with a multi-melta, a unit of effrit and his treasure unit was a squad of fire drake terminators. With deployment is basically made me concede my left flank with the amount of precision shooting he had. Although a fairly new player he made some good tactical decisions! AND his effrit squad almost killed my fist contemptor with his melta bombs in combat, on 5 attacks I hit twice and rolled 2 1s to wound, followed by a 1 and a 3 to kill one guy in the initial combat. meanwhile all 4 of his melta bombs hit and I didn't save a 1!~ He also hit a 5+ cover save and a 5+++ shroud save on his Exodus on 2 multi-melta wounds from my speeders.

He went first, his head hunters and exodus did a fair amount of damage killing my apothecary, sergeant and wounding my librarian. I gained 1 CP from first blood for killing his saboteur. It would've been 2 but my melee contemptor whiffed on turn 1. I passed my concussive and pinning checks.  His las cannon squad got pinned by my recon squad, as I killed both the augury scanner and sergeant with precision shots, he failed his 5+ cover saves and it was night fighting. After I conceded my left flank, I pushed everything I had to the right side, blocking several shots with LoS blocking terrain. The javalin killed my melee contemptor and died to the explosion. His 3 remaining lascannons and spartan plucked wounds off my melta contemptor. His firedrakes and champion killed a screen of tactical marines. The Seekers did most of my damage in this game by picking out characters and killing his champion. The libarian periled in this game at a crucial turn 3 denial to stop the fire drakes from holding the line, but he survived. Once my Dark Furies came in, they took out the entire squad of fire drakes and mopped up the tactical squads in the rhinos in dark fury fashion. We called it in turn 4 when all he had left was his exodus, 1 multi-melta head hunter, an immobilized rhino, and 2 las cannon guys. He picked Onslaught as his primary and did not have the means to get onto my objective. We talked it out, on what I would've done and concluded that I would win. In total I got 3 CP for a win, 3 for slay the warlord (due to my legion right of war), 4 from my remembrancer witnessing the firedrakes being swept and the death of his warlord, and 1 for first blood. He scored 1 CP for losing, 1 CP for his legion specific secondary, and his remembrancer died in the sweep and was unable to upload her data for the additional cps...and that was it I believe, he chose Slay the Warlord as well, and mine was still alive.

 

Round 2 was against Dark Mechanicum. Deployment Search and Destroy, Primary Objective Tide of Carnage, Secondary 1. Slay the Warlord 2. Attrition

 

This mission was cool enough to be played around a manufactorum setting which was fitting for playing against mechanicus. It was like the bombed out city was the hab center for one of the local forges, and the raven guard were moving up to help break the war effort on Rioh Prime.

 

Brodie's list I'm sorry I do not recall...I don't play against any mechanicum in my area, and he did explain every unit to me, but you know how it is when you are at a major event and there are literal thousands of people around. I have a picture of his 3k list somewhere, but I don't remember all of his robots in the 2k list. I know he had the T8 monster bot that did all kinds of damage, a steampunk looking tank thing, some mortars maybe? flying robots with S4 shred or rending 6 2 line units that were a 6+ 5+++ troop that he screened his army with, melee robots that were strength 12? and shooty robots with the megios that could be precision shot. I know because I knew that was like one of their coolest rules, and I asked to make sure. We had a hell of a good game, and it was very cagey. I played extremely aggressive against his army, and he castled up. I went first, and I think I sniped 3 or 4 wounds off his war lord in turn 1. Whatever left him on 2, I'm sorry I don't remember. It was a monster of a tanky character though I remember that. I didn't know each of his automata exploded when I killed them, which was an experience. I'm sorry I don't remember what his primaries were, but he did kill my warlord and my librarian. I had done enough damage against his shooty bots however to overwhelm him with my dreadnoughts. He did cause my remembrancer to flee off the board (Leadership 5 and high rolls on fallbacks) From shatter strike I scored 5 vp, I scored 3 CP for the win, 3 CP from Slay the Warlord + RoW and +1 for attrition. for a total of 7 CPs

 

Round 3 was against Word Bearers. Deployment Hammer & Anvil Primary Objective Onslaught, Secondary 1. Slay the Warlord 2. Raven Guard Specific (Kill the warlord in a challenge)

This was probably my favorite game from day 1 based off the narrative we came up with. We got to play on the Comms relay Board. I asked Devon if he would want to control the Comms and my Raven Guard try to be the ones to disrupt the communications to the Warmaster's Effort, or if he wanted me to take it and be holding out for reinforcements while the loyalist were transmitting orders through to the other warbands. It was an awesome set up and we had a blast. Devon chose to play the defender of the comms station while I would be the sneaky-boys that tried to infiltrate and take it out. 

 

Devon's Word Bearers if I recall correctly fielded a Mara-Ghal Contemptor, a Gravis Lascannon Contemptor with Havoc Launcher, a Leviathan Dread with Melta and Storm cannon Array, 2? tactical squads, a unit of 7 Ghal-vorbak with chaplain and praetor, the warp fire plasma guys, and a diabolist?

I set up both contemptors and my speeders around the middle part of my board edge. He set up his army and then I infiltrated. He left a 12" gap on his back left flank, my right and I infiltrated my seekers there. He did not steal the initiative, I went first. I proceeded to snipe out his chaplain and killed several ghal-vorbak with a combined recon squad, and seeker squad along with my speeder squadron. I held onto most of the objectives and conceded my left flank again ( I guess my left side is my weak side since I gave it up twice.) The highlights of this mission were how impressed Devon was with both the Seeker Squad and the Dark Furies, mainly the dark furies. He said he was told that Dark Furies weren't very good...and they proceeded to 1 shot his Leviathan in the following combat. We both laughed about it. I got a lot of. "Holy Dark Furies are good!" from a couple people actually. His Mara-Ghal did was they do and basically killed everything left on the left side of my board, except! EXCEPT! my one poor squad of tacticals survied 2 rounds of combat on an objective from it because he rolled 1s to wound in the first round and then ate them at the bottom of turn 3. His tactical squad that he buffed through his ritual sacrifice held up against my librarian and seekers until the final game turn, where my librarian finally got his force weapon off (I periled on force guys...) and obliterated the last 4 guys.

 

I gained 5 for controlling the onslaught objectives, and 1 for killing his chaplain in turn 1. I think he scored 1VP for shatter strike? (I'm sorry I don't remember which he took)
I gained 3 CP for the win, 3CP from Slay the Warlord, none from my secondary because I killed his warlord in shooting before I could issue the challenge, and 4 from the remembrancer for witnessing the warlord die, and watching the dark furies sweep a unit.

 

So day 2 was awesome. You had to bring your list from day 1 to day 2. So the units I added were the following:
Disclaimer, I chose to switch from Telepathy to Divination, because 1. After periling in every game I played, I wanted a guaranteed psychic power 2. precision shots of 6+ with a chance of 5+ (with a psychic test sounded cool) on plasma is actually pretty crazy, especially when you breach 33% of your 10-20 shots, that re-roll 1s to hit and wound against Independent characters and their squads.
A chaplain with thunder hammer, corvid jump pack and a cameoline cloak
A 10 man support squad of plasma guns with artificer armor and an infravisor

5 delivers with chainfist, powerfist, multi-melta, and axes. chieftain got an infravisor

a Leviathan Dread with phospex, volkite, and siege claws

 

Because the Traitor legions had acquired so many more command points than the loyalists, they gained a bonus for the rest of the day. They could either gain +1 to their Seize roll or +1 to their Reserve roll that had to be chosen before deployment. Secondly the first mission of round 4 was Ambush, and the loyalists had to be the defenders as part of the story being told from the previous days missions.

Round 4 was against Word Bearers. Deployment Ambush, Primary Objective War of Lies, Secondary 1. Slay the Warlord 2. Raven Guard Specific (Kill the warlord in a challenge)

 

I hate War of lies, and decided to get that one out of the way first. Basically this game was going to be a throwaway game for me, because I know how swingy the objectives can be at the end of the game.

 

Michael's list from memory had a diabolist, I -think- a chaplain? a retinue squad for his warlord, an amazingly converted Kharybdis Assault Claw 10? gal-vorbak maybe it wasn't 10 but I think it was. I don't remember. 10 ashen circle, 2 10 man tactical squads with rhinos, a 5 man lascannon squad with augury scanner, a squad of medusa with 3 chasis and a mara-ghal dreadnought.

Michael boasted a very impressive army, that looks absolutely amazing up close. he chose to take +1 to his reserve rolls, as well as set up on the left side of the board. The only saving grace for RG is the fact that they bring so much infiltrate to the game. I was able to move outside of my deployment zone, which was very risky for the fact he could've stole the initiative. Turn 1 was very brutal, I was effectively able to outright slay his warlord on turn 1 between my precision plasma shots and my precision scorpus rounds from my seeker squad. My Recon squad with the help of my plasma blaster dread did a number of damage on his lascannon squad, but he was able to pluck a few wounds off of my contemptor before hand. They did end up dying due to return fire in his follow up to turn 1. his medusa shot a lot of mortar fire, and plucked wounds here and there. My melta contemptor and speeders pushed up the board and got within melta range on turn 2 and 3 accordingly. Turn 1 I ran the melta dread, but I shot the melta off the land speeder and I glanced once and shook 1 medusa. On turn 2 I chose not to bring in my Deliverers or Dark furies, I wanted to react to his deepstrike placement. He brought in both his Ashen Circle and his Claw with Ghal-Vorbak. He pinned one tactical squad, and I intercepted his ashen circle with my plasma squad, I killed 6 or 7 on 16 plasma shots, and he proceeded to torrent flame kill my librarian and seeker squad. It was a tough call, because there were two threats at about the same damage potential right in front of him, he chose to take out the character and his squad. The Ghal-Vorbak charged the Leviathan and stripped 5 wounds off of it. It in turn killed 3. My following turn 3 saw both squads come in. The Multi-Melta from my Deliverer squad blew up the Claw with a single shot and my dark furies assulted into the Ghal-Vorbak. The Mara-Gal dread killed some stuff, but was actually locked in combat with my combat dread. my recon squad sniped the ashen circle squad, and the plasma squad finished them off. We called it there. Just a couple of lucky hits to be honest. I actually thought I was going to lose based off his primary vs. my primary.

 

I ended up scoring 4 VP and the win. I scored 3 CP for the win, 3 CP for slay the Warlord + RoW, my Remembrancer scored 1 for witnessing a unit be swept. I don't remember how many CP he told me he won.
 

Round 5 was against Night Lords. Deployment Dawn of War, Primary Objective Blood Feud, Secondary 1. Slay the Warlord 2. Attrition. I chose Infantry

 

Joel's Night Lords looked great. This mad man painted 3,000 points in 3 weeks. his list had more pinning than you could shake a stick at. 

Joel's Night Lords were as follows: A Delagatus, 2 tactical squads with rhinos, a sabre squad with autocannons and 3 chasis, 3 rapiers with mortars, 3 rapiers with lasdestroyers, 2 deredeo dreads with aiolos, heavy bolters, & volkite, 2 recon squads with nemesis bolters, 1 15 man terror squad with rotor cannons 10 night raptors with paired lighning claws, 10 contekar terminators. 

 

This game was very hard for me. 1. because my dice became as cold as the southern portion of Antartica, and 2. because everything in his army ignored shroud, and had multiple ways to deal with my infantry heavy list. Contrary to popular oppinion the dreadnoughts were not even that big of stars in my army, Everyone had answers for them, even myself apparently, because my plasma dread basically commited sepuku. I rolled 4 1s to shoot against one of his units, only to roll 2 more 1s in the first turn of shooting. Followed by 2 more ones into a 1 and a 3 in the following shooting with said plasma dread. The Laser Destroyers killed my Leviathan by turn 2. I did not make a single save on either round of shooting. The Melta Dread was dealt with by poor armor save rolls. I played defensively, but there wasn't a ton of places for cover. The Terro Squad killed my Speeder squad in my turn 1. My plasma gun squad was pinned on turn one, my librarian's squad lost both the apothecary and sergeant on rending sniper rounds turn 1. Which took away my infravisor and two 2+ armor saves and my FnP rolls. I rolled a 1 and another 1 for my reserve rolls on turn 2. So I used my tactical squad and my Seeker squad to assault his Sabre Squad, which they killed outright with krak grenades. By the top of turn 3 however I was down to a tactial squad on the left flank of an objective and 2 tactical marines, 4 plasma support marines and 3 seekers. Joel asked how I was doing and if I wanted to concede. I promptly said "no" and that if my deep strike comes in next turn I'm going to sweep his entire back line, and that I would only concede if 1. My reserves didn't come in, because I would be tabled, or if he pinned either of my Ld 9 and 10 both Stubborn Units. So guess what happened....I rolled a 2 for my reserve roll. I said something profane, and looked Joel dead in the eye and said, "This is it..." I rolled a 4. I dropped down, He went to double intercept but he forgot that he had moved his Deredeos in the previous turn, so could not use there targeting arrays. He shot, did not pinn, and I multi charged three units with a 14" roll, plus my deliverers charged his terro squad, lost the multi-melta, took out his warlord. I killed everything in his army except for the deredeo which I left on 1 wound. Then I proceeded to take out everything else that was on the back end leaving him with a deredeo and his Contekar terminators which brutally murdered all of my piecemealed squads. We talked out Turn 4 and 5 and I ended up winning 6 VP to 4 VP. Secondary objectives Gave me 3CP for winning, 3CP for Slay the Warlord but 0 points for Attrition because of how the game ended. It was tight the entire game, I've missed some stuff but we had beers afterwards and just talked about all the craziness of how good Dark Furies are, and that so many people sleep on them. I took about 100 pictures so it's going to take some time for me to shift through everything to find some of my games and of the armies I played against.
 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Its cool to learn that while standard reserves are still compelled to come in off a successful roll, the core "Assault" variants aren't. Gives you time to kill the master of signal or tie up good interceptor units, especially for flanking assault. 

[Mandragola]

Thanks for the great write-up. It's good that you got some photos too. I always find that I forget to, when I'm in the middle of an intense game. I ought to try and build it into my start of turn routine or something.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

47 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

Thanks for the great write-up. It's good that you got some photos too. I always find that I forget to, when I'm in the middle of an intense game. I ought to try and build it into my start of turn routine or something.

Honestly I took more pictures of everything else and less of my own battles. Especially of the Mega battle and the the scavenger hunt. From my phone it looks like I only really got pictures of the first mission, though I swear I thought I grabbed one of every match...

[Mandragola]

I played a couple of games recently with my RGs, against Custodes and Sagyar Mazan White Scars. Managed to win both and learned a bit.

 

Infiltrating tactical squads are a huge advantage. You get to set up your Line stuff after the enemy and you can occupy objectives. They can also start firing fury of the legion right away. I think it's best to be at around 20-24" rather than getting right in people's faces.

 

Doing this pushes the area where the battle is fought back a bit towards the enemy. This creates some space where longer-ranged stuff can operate unmolested. My quad-las dreadnought has done really good work for me and always felt pretty safe, so it's been zapping away all through the game. It's also mobile, which is a big help. On the other hand my melee contemptors haven't made it into combat much.

 

I haven't had especially good results from Mor Deythan. I'm finding that the things I want them to shoot at very often have decent cover or invulnerable saves. Once they've fired their special shot they become very ordinary. I had a squad of five try and beat up a white scar tactical squad but they couldn't, despite having more attacks and chainswords. It might be worth giving them more melee equipment but to be honest I'm tempted to drop them at this point and get something more reliable.

 

... Like more Dark Furies. These guys are really cool and great value. They're suprisingly difficult to shoot dead thanks to having three characters with 2+ saves in the unit. Damage output is very swingy though so I'm considering whether to add a Chaplain to the squad, or whether to just get another whole unit of them instead. I'm finding that I want other stuff to charge before them so the enemy can't react with hold the line, which prevents them using their sudden strike ability for I5. Seekers seem quite good for this job as they can use their tricks to remove characters from the enemy unit and then charge in. My seeker sergeant also disintegrated his first Praetor in the game against the White Scars, which was excellent.

 

I'm finding melee pretty risky otherwise. Marines are not good at killing each other in fist fights. This tends to mean there are very few casualties and it's very easy for the "wrong" side to make all its saves and then sneak a wound or two through to win a combat. Removing fearless white scar tacticals with 4+ FNP from an objective was not easy! One turn I did nothing and lost a man, so both my Mor Deythan and tacticals has to take break tests - which luckily they passed. I'm not sure if the answer to this is to add Sergeants with melee weapons, as these can easily be removed by Vigilators, seekers and so on. Having a couple of characters who can go where they're needed might be a better option.

 

I need to have 3k ready for Warhammer Fest. Luckily a quarter of that is my Warhound. I'd also like to bring some sisters of silence. That doesn't leave vast amounts of points for RGs but it does some useful jobs for me. I'm a bit worried that the Warhound will find itself subjected to all the enemy's AT fire, if I have no other vehicles, but maybe the odd contemptor will help soak up lascannons.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

44 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

I played a couple of games recently with my RGs, against Custodes and Sagyar Mazan White Scars. Managed to win both and learned a bit.

 

Infiltrating tactical squads are a huge advantage. You get to set up your Line stuff after the enemy and you can occupy objectives. They can also start firing fury of the legion right away. I think it's best to be at around 20-24" rather than getting right in people's faces.

 

Doing this pushes the area where the battle is fought back a bit towards the enemy. This creates some space where longer-ranged stuff can operate unmolested. My quad-las dreadnought has done really good work for me and always felt pretty safe, so it's been zapping away all through the game. It's also mobile, which is a big help. On the other hand my melee contemptors haven't made it into combat much.

 

I haven't had especially good results from Mor Deythan. I'm finding that the things I want them to shoot at very often have decent cover or invulnerable saves. Once they've fired their special shot they become very ordinary. I had a squad of five try and beat up a white scar tactical squad but they couldn't, despite having more attacks and chainswords. It might be worth giving them more melee equipment but to be honest I'm tempted to drop them at this point and get something more reliable.

 

... Like more Dark Furies. These guys are really cool and great value. They're suprisingly difficult to shoot dead thanks to having three characters with 2+ saves in the unit. Damage output is very swingy though so I'm considering whether to add a Chaplain to the squad, or whether to just get another whole unit of them instead. I'm finding that I want other stuff to charge before them so the enemy can't react with hold the line, which prevents them using their sudden strike ability for I5. Seekers seem quite good for this job as they can use their tricks to remove characters from the enemy unit and then charge in. My seeker sergeant also disintegrated his first Praetor in the game against the White Scars, which was excellent.

 

I'm finding melee pretty risky otherwise. Marines are not good at killing each other in fist fights. This tends to mean there are very few casualties and it's very easy for the "wrong" side to make all its saves and then sneak a wound or two through to win a combat. Removing fearless white scar tacticals with 4+ FNP from an objective was not easy! One turn I did nothing and lost a man, so both my Mor Deythan and tacticals has to take break tests - which luckily they passed. I'm not sure if the answer to this is to add Sergeants with melee weapons, as these can easily be removed by Vigilators, seekers and so on. Having a couple of characters who can go where they're needed might be a better option.

 

I need to have 3k ready for Warhammer Fest. Luckily a quarter of that is my Warhound. I'd also like to bring some sisters of silence. That doesn't leave vast amounts of points for RGs but it does some useful jobs for me. I'm a bit worried that the Warhound will find itself subjected to all the enemy's AT fire, if I have no other vehicles, but maybe the odd contemptor will help soak up lascannons.

Land speeders to charge in first, then Furies. 100% take the chaplain. 

 

Deliverers may be our best unit and are brutal on the drop. I'd switch in a 5 man squad at least over the Mor-Deythan if you don't field any. I think 1 squad of 10 furies is probably all you need. Especially with how strong land speeders and seekers are for RG.

[Mandragola]

Deliverers are certainly a strong-looking pick. I'll look into that. It's annoying that you can't easily send characters with them, though I suppose I could give somebody a jump pack so they can all deep strike. That feels somewhat stupid, but it works. Maybe he's carrying a teleport homer or something.

 

What's so great about RG land speeders? Land speeders in general seem good but RGs don't seem to buff them much. They do get good shrouding if they run but then they aren't shooting much/at all. How would you equip them? My FA slots are under pressure with dark furies and seekers, especially since I'm quite enjoying my Xiphon. I definitely see the utility of soaking reactions.

 

I might well want to make myself a Praetor/Delegatus with thunder hammer and jump pack - possibly magnetised. Decapitation Strike is excellent so a master of the legion feels essential.

 

I'm actually considering a Cataphracti Delegatus waddling around on foot, probably armed with a big hammer. He'd probably go with my Seekers, who wouldn't infiltrate but could still scout if they wanted. The Delegatus ability to un-pin stuff is really serious. But if I'm running Deep striking Deliverers (or cheeky outflanking ones with a Vestal) I think I'd want my Warlord off-board with the Hidden Hand, so that my stuff turned up reliably.

 

What do you think about command squads vs deliverers? They're roughly the same price but you get more attacks and wounds, albeit without a 4++ and raven's talons.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Mandragola

[Dont-Be-Haten]

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

Deliverers are certainly a strong-looking pick. I'll look into that. It's annoying that you can't easily send characters with them, though I suppose I could give somebody a jump pack so they can all deep strike. That feels somewhat stupid, but it works. Maybe he's carrying a teleport homer or something.

 

What's so great about RG land speeders? Land speeders in general seem good but RGs don't seem to buff them much. They do get good shrouding if they run but then they aren't shooting much/at all. How would you equip them? My FA slots are under pressure with dark furies and seekers, especially since I'm quite enjoying my Xiphon. I definitely see the utility of soaking reactions.

 

I might well want to make myself a Praetor/Delegatus with thunder hammer and jump pack - possibly magnetised. Decapitation Strike is excellent so a master of the legion feels essential.

 

I'm actually considering a Cataphracti Delegatus waddling around on foot, probably armed with a big hammer. He'd probably go with my Seekers, who wouldn't infiltrate but could still scout if they wanted. The Delegatus ability to un-pin stuff is really serious. But if I'm running Deep striking Deliverers (or cheeky outflanking ones with a Vestal) I think I'd want my Warlord off-board with the Hidden Hand, so that my stuff turned up reliably.

 

What do you think about command squads vs deliverers? They're roughly the same price but you get more attacks and wounds, albeit without a 4++ and raven's talons.

The speeders it's more about benefitting from Decap strike re-rolls, as well as being able to come in through deepstrike reserve. They also offer anti-tank options where the army as a whole struggles having only 1 heavy support slot available. I run Multi-meltas and heavy bolters though Multi Melta and Grav is a very popular options.

 

A Master of Signals becomes redundant if you take the Hidden Hand warlord trait. Fleet (3) re-rolls to reserves and an extra reaction in the movement phase are all strong and trump needing the former.

 

I use a MoS is a counter to other deepstriking armies with a 50% mishap chance on deepstrike assault etc. With a built in BS5 for a unit so hits on 2s, with weapons that wound on 2s, and re-rolls 1s in both instances from the RoW. When I bring a MoS I don't turn off his vox disruptor array if I know my opponent is also bringing deep strike.

 

About the retinue, I love the idea of them. Powerfist on the banner and a second powerfist followed by the rest with Raven Talons, all with Warhawk Jump packs...just very expensive. I'll admit I haven't fielded the unit, but I want to. Though it almost has to have a Primus Medicae jumping in their with them since they don't have an innately built in invulnerable save.

 

I think Nex is a better character for Seekers, though I field a telepathy Librarian with Cameoline cloak in mine, and both Pyromancy and Biomancy are good options since you can up their toughness to 5 to be able to soak S9 lascannon return fire as well as give them their FnP rolls, and you have a S10 rending (4+) instant death combatant that counters melee. Telepathy is the play though as it detours charges or forces characters and things to break off for a charge if the opponent doesn't themselves bring calvary.Calvary.

 

I don't really like single flyers, though they do have some teeth. A lot of my meta however runs a lot of sky fire and intercepts so I don't really bring mine, and I, like you, find my fast slot taxing.

[Mandragola]

I was actually thinking of a cheaper command squad, outflanking instead of deep striking and with mostly normal power weapons. 258 buys 9 guys with 2 fists and 7 assorted power weapons. They infiltrate or outflank. I'd have a Praetor attached, probably with raven's talons though a thunder hammer would be a reasonable alternative. I could attach my SoS Vestal (who also infiltrates) to give them FNP and loads of other bonuses.

 

I'm sort of struck by how this unit seems pretty cheap for what it does. It seems like it can be sent to go and take enemy objectives with a reasonable expectation of holding onto them. They don't have invulnerables but a 2+ save, shrouding/FNP and WS5 mean they won't be hugely vulnerable, and they average around 30ppm.

 

I could potentially give them a Land Raider. That's probably silly but it would extend their reach when they turned up. People probably wouldn't appreciate having the thing turn up in the side of their army. And if I was up against a melee horde I could just set up normally to have a counter-charge unit. 

 

I would love to not use a telepathy Librarian. The utility, particularly with Dark Furies, is obvious but it just feels a bit wrong for a narrative event. 

[Lord Krungharr]

I might be playing vs some Salamanders this Sunday.  At first I was thinking to use my Iron Warriors terminators force, but now I think I'd rather use my ninja cats.  Dark Furies and Deliverers will eat up a bunch of points but am I correct that deepstriking units can in fact charge after coming in from Reserves?  Though I read that somewhere, and the deep strike rules saying 'assault as normal' or something seems to suggest that (though I don't have my rules handy at the moment).  I have a couple Land Speeders with multimelta/lascannons too which can zip in to absorb overwatch, etc.