HH 2.0 Serpents Lair: XXth Legion Tactica

[Chaeron]

32 minutes ago, Slips said:

Yeah, Im still unsure on the size of Headhunter Squads. The multimelta option is only ever 1 in the squad regardless of size so you arent getting an extra one if you add more bodies.

…

If anything, 1MM, 1in3 Combi Meltas and the rest of the squad being Combi Grenades might be the play for them with the only other upgrade being AA on the Sarge. With Scout and Infiltrate as well as Skirmish Sub-Type youre probably find running them without a transport since you can pretty much put them where you want them to be off the bat.

 

Some superb thoughts here Slips! Lots of this has been crossing my mind: an extra MM would be nice if that were a future amend…! Heresy Sergeant gear always feels obligatory, but perhaps it’s time to revise… 
 

I like the idea of Banestrike alternatives too: plenty of food for thought. May need a few test runs, but I’m liking the possibility. It may give useful ‘one-shot’ utility and a higher initial damage output before closing the distance.

 

Exodus also seems great - I’ve not looked at Recons or the synergy here in any great depth, but I again think there’s plenty of options for lists, which is very exciting. I’m keen to see what others are thinking too, and what this’ll be countering in practice!

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I am very much looking forward to running the Recon rite. Having recon squads automatically count as 8” further away is nasty, when they are throwing out pinning sniper fire and concussive shotgun blasts.

Also it seems to me that we can steal other legion’s consularis. I am looking at that space wolf one that grants skirmish, just cuz it rules.

[Slips]

Oh my, Exodus is only Infantry (Character, light) meaning you can take MULTIPLES of him since hes lacking Unique.

[Chaeron]

2 hours ago, Slips said:

Oh my, Exodus is only Infantry (Character, light) meaning you can take MULTIPLES of him since hes lacking Unique.

Imagine…! But, you’ll have limited slots to play with there, which is the only thing. I do think he’ll need to be included in my list now: it seems more logical to use the Headhunter Leviathal Rite, drop the Scorpiuses, and go all in.

I’ve been reflecting on Sergeant armament, and I think just Power Daggers (possibly, with AA) might be best in the main. Helps to save on points and is still pretty sneaky… I may try to magnetise for the purposes of potential swaps in future, mind.

[Slips]

40 minutes ago, Chaeron said:

Imagine…! But, you’ll have limited slots to play with there, which is the only thing. I do think he’ll need to be included in my list now: it seems more logical to use the Headhunter Leviathal Rite, drop the Scorpiuses, and go all in.

I’ve been reflecting on Sergeant armament, and I think just Power Daggers (possibly, with AA) might be best in the main. Helps to save on points and is still pretty sneaky… I may try to magnetise for the purposes of potential swaps in future, mind.

Your other option is actual Recon Company which puts Seekers as non-compulsory troops and you were likely to take recons now so you dont have both HHs and Seekers fighting for FA slots.

Its not as juicy in the VP department nor does it give your shrouded on T1 but, it does give you slightly better odds at going first and pulling of an "ambush" style opener. The drawback is being unable to take anything with the Heavy Sub-type aka Leviathans.

That said, you dont have the slot restrictions on Heavy Support like the Leviathal does.

 

The Main thing against the dagger is that its only wounding T4 on a 5+ which means 1 in every 3 hits is a wound but with breaching 5+, that wound is automatically Ap2. If thats too much of a risk, but you dont want the sarges to cost too much, you can still either take a fist, or, in the case of HH Sarges, just take a Power Axe for +5 so you still have the option of AP2 while not making the sarge cost too much; if its a concern.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Slips

[Cadmus Tyro]

Well, you can take options with the “heavy” rule, they just have to start in reserve. Drop pod that leviathan in! 
 

No more infiltrating Grav rapiers in the recon list for me though! 
 

 

cadmus 

[xxxjtmxxx]

why no more rapier infiltrating? dynath does give infiltrate to infantry, rapier are infantry with the sub type artillery and heavy. So he can bring them infiltrating i think. 

 

Edit. Sorry, u mean in a recon row. that is right. but i think the Headhunter is realy good and u dont need seekers when u can have headhunters.

Edited June 28, 2022 by xxxjtmxxx

[Slips]

10 minutes ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

why no more rapier infiltrating? dynath does give infiltrate to infantry, rapier are infantry with the sub type artillery and heavy. So he can bring them infiltrating i think. 

 

Edit. Sorry, u mean in a recon row. that is right. but i think the Headhunter is realy good and u dont need seekers when u can have headhunters.

I dunno dude, Seekers do have Scorpius Rounds which are great and they have the options for Nuncios, Auguries and Vexillas which HHs dont. I probably wouldnt give them Nemesis Bolters but they at least have the option where HHs are stuck with Combis and a special.

Theres enough distinction in how you could use both that make both units interesting for Alpha Legion.

[Lyell]

I am sure its just wishful thinking but quick question:

In the Seeker Squad Unit entry it is explicity stated that "if a combi-weapon or nemesis bolter is selected, the model may not make use of Tempest rounds or Scorpius rounds".

In the HH unit entry a similiar explanation regarding the banestrike combi bolter is missing. 

Again, I am pretty sure that its only wishful thinking but whats your take on this?

[Hirmetrium]

14 hours ago, Lyell said:

I am sure its just wishful thinking but quick question:

In the Seeker Squad Unit entry it is explicity stated that "if a combi-weapon or nemesis bolter is selected, the model may not make use of Tempest rounds or Scorpius rounds".

In the HH unit entry a similiar explanation regarding the banestrike combi bolter is missing. 

Again, I am pretty sure that its only wishful thinking but whats your take on this?

I thought it was clear that when headhunters swap to regular combi-weapons, they lose banestrike. There isn't a minor/magna combi-weapon entry with banestrike (it becomes a bolter (primary) entry attack) as an option in any wargear list; so you'd straight up replace it. The flip side is you can fire combi's and bolters at the same time as part of the attack; if you unload that much rapid-fire firepower into a unit, it isn't going to be left standing, especially with a BS5 twin-linked multimelta in the squad.

I'm wondering about heavy bolters as well, tempted to just swap to multi-meltas.

[Vogon]

Having had a look at the book, it looks like Headhunters have lost the option for heavy weapons wit suspensor mounts.

I used to run a Heavy Bolter with banestrike and suspensor and that was fun.

 

cheers

vogon

[xxxjtmxxx]

but they are relentless, so u could fire while moving

[Vogon]

14 hours ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

but they are relentless, so u could fire while moving

Ah, I didn’t spot that little nugget. 

 

Thanks.

[Imren]

Regarding power daggers on headhunters, is it not possible to run them with a character that have rad grenades (techmarine?) and throw them prior charging and then in close combat the power daggers wounds on 4+ instead (wounds by rad grenades/missiles case -1 T).

I met a guy at adepticon that ran a techmarine on bike with his headhunters, throwing rad grenades left and right rendering the headhunters daggers effectively being power swords.

[Erren]

Techmarines don't have rad grenades anymore. Unless I'm missing something the only legion-agnostic units with rad grenades are destroyers and moritat.

[xxxjtmxxx]

and death guard chars

[newmajorpanic]

Friends, are you taking Tyrant Siege Terminators or Fulmentarus?

Tyrants:

• 300 points for five, combi-bolters and fists
• Proteus / Spartan DT
• Relentless, Inexorable
• Frag missiles are 48" S4 AP6 pinning
• Krak are S8 AP3
• Flak are S7 AP3 Skyfire
• Omniscope give Night Vision, free Interceptor reaction

Fulmentarus:

• 290 points for five, 315 if all have combi-bolters and fists (for comparison equivalency with Tyrants)
• Proteus / Spartan / Dreadclaw DT
• Relentless, Inexorable
• Splinter missiles are 36" S5 AP5 Breaching (6) Pinning
• Plasma missiles are 24" S8 AP2 Brutal (2)
• Targeter gives Night Vision, Guided Fire

Feels like Tyrants are more viable as a long-range threat, but their CC capability is a little wasted as a result, whereas the Fulmentarus need a bit more support (or a DT) but are more brutal in mid- to close-range.

[Imren]

In combination with LA(AL) rules I'd say Fulmentarus are preferrable. Terminators in general are close combat oriented. But these two types are great examples of swiss army knife that does both shooting and close combat very good on top of their strong armour. What Fulmentarus lacks in range of their AP2 missiles they make up for by utilising AL shenanigans with deployment and movement and other LA(AL) rules to get where they need to be. The firepower is superior, reaction fire from these guys are brutal (and Brutal (2)). I'd go for the fulmentarus in an allcomers list.

The siege tyrants are not so dependent on positioning thanks to their range. But in this edition AP2 much more rare and precious and the rule writers compensate those Fulmentarus plasma missiles with short range, but we with our alpha legion rules decompensate that with our deployemnt and mobility rules.

Any other type of terminators I'd arrange transport or deep strike for mobility. but Siege Tyrants and Fulmentarus don't suffer from foot slogging thanks to their good missiles, in fact they should foot slog to utilise their very good firepower as many turs as possible. So put the Fulmentarus where you want them in the beginning using AL rules or deep strike and wreak havoc with their precious AP2 missiles.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Imren

[armarnis]

brothers, whats your take on the rites of war? im looking mainly at recon company, i feel our legion specific ones come with big downsides so right now im ruling them out. Slips seems to have grasped the use of recon squads very much and manipulating our chances of going first seems very appealing

[sinner098]

What is everyone's interpretation of taking consul types from other legions? I could see a coils of the hydra list with a consul and a few units from another legion. Also can we take Dark Angles  Deathwing Companions? I am leaning towards "no" because they need a dark angle HQ to bodyguard. 

[9x19 Parabellum]

Hello guys.  I'd also like to request some assistance building baby's first Alpha Legion army.  Longtime 40k player (since 6th edition now) so I'm pretty familiar with the 7th edition ruleset, although I forgot a lot of it.

I'm normally able to look at a faction/chapter and get a pretty good sense of what kinds of units and upgrades work well with it, but I admit I'm lost here on Alpha Legion.   The +2" range thing seems cool, but how does it actually play out on the table? Ie, what kinds of units benefit from it?  Also looking for a rite of war recommendation?

All this is to help inform what my purchases and build/paint order is.  Right now I have the boxed set and I have bult them as:

 

30 tacs with bayonets (they look cool), subdivided as 2 units of 15 (ie, 2 sergeants, 2 nuncios and 2 vexilla).

1x5 volkite calivers

1x5 rotor cannons

the contemptor is not weapon glued so I can swap out his main gun.

terminator unit 1: 4x double lighting claws and 1 heavy flamer + chainfist.

terminator unit 2: 2x power swords, 2x power fists, 1x chainfst, 4x combi-bolters and 1x heavy flamer

i also have a rhino with no commitment yet to the primary gun

the spartan I was thinking about giving to my 40k iron hands and letting them run that in HH from time to time. It doesn't seem to synergize with Alpha legion...thoughts?

 

I also bought a friends' bits which includes 30 seekers, Alpharius, Skorn, a Cataphractii praetor, Dynat, power armor praetor and a buttload of AL shoulderpads.

 

So I'm trying to figure out how to build the army, and what kinds of things I should be buying/building/painting next.

[Chaeron]

On 7/6/2022 at 11:59 AM, newmajorpanic said:

Friends, are you taking Tyrant Siege Terminators or Fulmentarus?

I’m leaning towards Tyrants (and have been building them today!): really appreciate the breakdown and comparison though. Always keen to look at multiple options!

On 7/7/2022 at 10:32 PM, armarnis said:

brothers, whats your take on the rites of war? im looking mainly at recon company, i feel our legion specific ones come with big downsides so right now im ruling them out. Slips seems to have grasped the use of recon squads very much and manipulating our chances of going first seems very appealing

I’m debating this too: keen to hear further opinions, but I’m not totally convinced I need one…Headhunter Leviathal would be my current choice based on the list I’m building towards, if I had to pick.

[Cadmus Tyro]

So brothers, I’ve finally decide to begin optimising my Alpha Legion force for HH2.0. 
 

Just reflecting on some of our rule changes and I think we are left in a much better place than before, tactics seem a little more three dimensional. Generic infiltrate on seekers, better head hunters and recons coupled with characters than can grant infiltrate means we can recreate our legion traits from the past, at least to some degree.

The warlord traits are the most interesting aspect to me at the moment, having always taken Skorr for flexibility, I find myself drawn to the generic traits a little more, all of them seem useful.

Hydran Excursor seems the most obvious. It synergises with our legion specific reaction being in the shooting phase whilst buffing a units to hit roles. Probably better for smaller games as it’s impact will reduce in larger points games, perhaps reserve it for a unit of siege tyrants…..

Mobius configuration sounds like a fun option, I would probably run loyalist world eaters as an allied detachment and just send them in ahead of the primary detachment. The benefits seem weighted towards a kill points type game, but still useful in other scenarios. I’m assuming interceptor reactions using augery scanners don’t trigger the “first free reaction” but I think that needs some clarification. 
 

Master of lies is where it gets really interesting. Infiltrating alpha strike lists used to be high risk/reward, if your opponent seized, it left you in a very vulnerable position. If they got first turn an aggressive deployment was risky, even when maximising our previous ways of manipulating “seize the initiative”. This warlord trait allows you to aggressively deploy your alpha strike unit, and if you either fail to seize the initiative or your opponent seizes the initiative, you can just redeploy out of harms way. This should work well with units such as seekers and head hunters, that have innate infiltrate, giving you significant flexibility with deployment and also a better ability to counter deploy against an opponent that can also infiltrate. 
 

Looking forward to trying the XXth out on the table! 
 

Cadmus 

 

 

[xxxjtmxxx]

58 minutes ago, Cadmus Tyro said:

So brothers, I’ve finally decide to begin optimising my Alpha Legion force for HH2.0. 
 

Just reflecting on some of our rule changes and I think we are left in a much better place than before, tactics seem a little more three dimensional. Generic infiltrate on seekers, better head hunters and recons coupled with characters than can grant infiltrate means we can recreate our legion traits from the past, at least to some degree.

The warlord traits are the most interesting aspect to me at the moment, having always taken Skorr for flexibility, I find myself drawn to the generic traits a little more, all of them seem useful.

Hydran Excursor seems the most obvious. It synergises with our legion specific reaction being in the shooting phase whilst buffing a units to hit roles. Probably better for smaller games as it’s impact will reduce in larger points games, perhaps reserve it for a unit of siege tyrants…..

Mobius configuration sounds like a fun option, I would probably run loyalist world eaters as an allied detachment and just send them in ahead of the primary detachment. The benefits seem weighted towards a kill points type game, but still useful in other scenarios. I’m assuming interceptor reactions using augery scanners don’t trigger the “first free reaction” but I think that needs some clarification. 
 

Master of lies is where it gets really interesting. Infiltrating alpha strike lists used to be high risk/reward, if your opponent seized, it left you in a very vulnerable position. If they got first turn an aggressive deployment was risky, even when maximising our previous ways of manipulating “seize the initiative”. This warlord trait allows you to aggressively deploy your alpha strike unit, and if you either fail to seize the initiative or your opponent seizes the initiative, you can just redeploy out of harms way. This should work well with units such as seekers and head hunters, that have innate infiltrate, giving you significant flexibility with deployment and also a better ability to counter deploy against an opponent that can also infiltrate. 
 

Looking forward to trying the XXth out on the table! 
 

Cadmus 

 

 

 

everything is true. 

i will try morbius with imperial guard when they hit the table. could be fun and very thematic. 

Master of lies is my favorite but i like to have my rewards unit also infiltrating, so dynath is my First Pik. question is, rewards unit melee or shooting.

i will Run my list with 2 squads of 10 headhunters. they are also great in melee against everything with ws4 because rending on 5. 

[Slips]

Me, personally, I think Dynat still is a VERY good Praetor-level option especially with his Warlord Trait granting 3 units of your choice one of 3 alt-deployment options.

 

For Rewards, Fulmentarus look more interesting to me than Tyrants due to their Plasma Missiles. Shorter range but you can just...infiltrate them.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Slips