HH 2.0 Serpents Lair: XXth Legion Tactica

[Lyell]

34 minutes ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

 

everything is true. 

i will try morbius with imperial guard when they hit the table. could be fun and very thematic. 

Master of lies is my favorite but i like to have my rewards unit also infiltrating, so dynath is my First Pik. question is, rewards unit melee or shooting.

i will Run my list with 2 squads of 10 headhunters. they are also great in melee against everything with ws4 because rending on 5. 

Maybe I am misinterpreting the rule but I believe the allied detachment has to have the Legion Astartes SR

[xxxjtmxxx]

2 minutes ago, Lyell said:

Maybe I am misinterpreting the rule but I believe the allied detachment has to have the Legion Astartes SR

this is only the First part. you must read the two sentences separate. 

i will run 10 invictarus because i think that i need something aigainst 2+ and they are so good in it. i do not like tyrants  

[Cadmus Tyro]

58 minutes ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

 

everything is true. 

i will try morbius with imperial guard when they hit the table. could be fun and very thematic. 

Master of lies is my favorite but i like to have my rewards unit also infiltrating, so dynath is my First Pik. question is, rewards unit melee or shooting.

i will Run my list with 2 squads of 10 headhunters. they are also great in melee against everything with ws4 because rending on 5. 

I flit between seekers and headhunters. The headhunters are generally a better option I agree, but seekers open the doors to an infiltrating proteus, which is surprisingly useful in my experience.

Interesting point about the coils choice, I was looking at terror squads for their innate infiltrate, loaded with rotor cannons for pinning units and mopping up turn 2. Might be a useful option in recon company and headhunter RoW, although they seem a little over costed to me? 
 

1 hour ago, Slips said:

Me, personally, I think Dynat still is a VERY good Praetor-level option especially with his Warlord Trait granting 3 units of your choice one of 3 alt-deployment options.

 

For Rewards, Fulmentarus look more interesting to me than Tyrants due to their Plasma Missiles. Shorter range but you can just...infiltrate them.

I think Dynat is going to be a go to for me in bigger games, when I want to bring rapiers and lernaeans. He’s quite capable in melee with his thunder hammer triggering if he doesn’t kill his opponent with the rending power sword first, there’s a chance to ID your opponent albeit at initiative step 1.

I think tyrants still have a place, more for long range support if you don’t take a warlord to give them infiltrate. But if you are infiltrating, Fulmentarus all the way. 

 

Cadmus 

 

[xxxjtmxxx]

21 minutes ago, Cadmus Tyro said:

I flit between seekers and headhunters. The headhunters are generally a better option I agree, but seekers open the doors to an infiltrating proteus, which is surprisingly useful in my experience.

Interesting point about the coils choice, I was looking at terror squads for their innate infiltrate, loaded with rotor cannons for pinning units and mopping up turn 2. Might be a useful option in recon company and headhunter RoW, although they seem a little over costed to me? 
 

I think Dynat is going to be a go to for me in bigger games, when I want to bring rapiers and lernaeans. He’s quite capable in melee with his thunder hammer triggering if he doesn’t kill his opponent with the rending power sword first, there’s a chance to ID your opponent albeit at initiative step 1.

I think tyrants still have a place, more for long range support if you don’t take a warlord to give them infiltrate. But if you are infiltrating, Fulmentarus all the way. 

 

Cadmus 

 

infiltrating proteus does not work in Headhunter Leviathan.  infiltrator are part of the normal deployment and vehicles must beginn the game in reserve.

when i expand on 3000 points, the xx will be my only Legion without primarch and vehicles. speeder could be possible for anti tank Operations. maybe one xiphon, because comes out of reserves. 

[Cadmus Tyro]

1 minute ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

infiltrating proteus does not work in Headhunter Leviathan.  infiltrator are part of the normal deployment and vehicles must beginn the game in reserve.

when i expand on 3000 points, the xx will be my only Legion without primarch and vehicles. speeder could be possible for anti tank Operations. maybe one xiphon, because comes out of reserves. 

Who said anything about using it in the Leviathal? I’m talking about using it in a recon company list…

I’m not fully sold on the Leviathal, not having line on the headhunters is quite limiting and the no vehicle tax whilst fluffy, doesn’t quite outweigh the benefits of the RoW. In ZM however…..

Interesting point, augery scanners only limit infiltration, not scout moves. So headhunters with both infiltrate and scout will still be able to close the distance, especially useful for getting into Melta range turn 1.

Reading the rules for Exodus, when he deploys by himself, he isn’t using the infiltrate rule, therefore I’m assuming you could charge him on the first turn? Deploy snipe the sergeant to pin the squad, then charge? Perhaps useful for bullying backfield units? 
 

Cadmus 

 

[Slips]

On 7/14/2022 at 3:02 PM, Cadmus Tyro said:

Who said anything about using it in the Leviathal? I’m talking about using it in a recon company list…

I’m not fully sold on the Leviathal, not having line on the headhunters is quite limiting and the no vehicle tax whilst fluffy, doesn’t quite outweigh the benefits of the RoW. In ZM however…..

Interesting point, augery scanners only limit infiltration, not scout moves. So headhunters with both infiltrate and scout will still be able to close the distance, especially useful for getting into Melta range turn 1.

Reading the rules for Exodus, when he deploys by himself, he isn’t using the infiltrate rule, therefore I’m assuming you could charge him on the first turn? Deploy snipe the sergeant to pin the squad, then charge? Perhaps useful for bullying backfield units? 
 

Cadmus 

 

Re: exodus: Essentially, yes. He always fires at full BS no matter what and with Light, it means you can move, run, shoot The Instrument at full BS to position properly. Or, be backline, set him up deceptively, move, shoot his 72" profile and just gib a dude across the table.

I'm personally not sure if I would use him so aggressively as to super-infiltrate, shoot, pin, charge a unit to bully the backfield. Id use him more as the Super-Vigilator he is and support other elements in your list especially with how deceptively mobile he is for not having a jump pack.

And he lacks the (Unique) sub-type meaning you can take more than one of him in your army.

[Cadmus Tyro]

On 7/16/2022 at 7:06 PM, Slips said:

Re: exodus: Essentially, yes. He always fires at full BS no matter what and with Light, it means you can move, run, shoot The Instrument at full BS to position properly. Or, be backline, set him up deceptively, move, shoot his 72" profile and just gib a dude across the table.

I'm personally not sure if I would use him so aggressively as to super-infiltrate, shoot, pin, charge a unit to bully the backfield. Id use him more as the Super-Vigilator he is and support other elements in your list especially with how deceptively mobile he is for not having a jump pack.

And he lacks the (Unique) sub-type meaning you can take more than one of him in your army.

Yes, agree that’s the way to use him optimally. But the super infiltrate ability does open up the option to use him in a different way. In my experience alpha legion are all about flexibility, it’s nice to have the option should the battlefield present the opportunity or need. 
 

Had my first game on Friday, one of my reflections on the game was how banestrike does not synergise well with our legion trait. Moving into rapid fire range takes you within 9” which understandably triggers a withdraw reaction from your opponent. Plasma and Melta create a better synergy allowing you to be outside of movement reactions range (thanks to -2 from the legion trait) but still be within rapid fire range. The additional strength on banestrike is helpful, but you still need weight of fire to force wounds through.

cadmus 

[newmajorpanic]

I wonder if many people (specifically, non-AL players) are underrating Lernaeans at the moment. Sure, they are WS4 meaning they are hit more easily, but Hydran Examplars restores their hitting power somewhat.

More terrifyingly, they have Line as well as It Will Not Die, meaning that they are extremely good objective holders who require less support than equivalent terminators.

Has anyone been able to deploy them in games? If I were playing Zone Mortalis, they'd be an auto-include (with Heavy Flamer), and in normal games, I'd either infiltrate a squad with the flamer, or have them sit on a backline objective with the conversion beamer.

[Chaeron]

I’d echo their possibilities, I think I’d seen people suggesting that with a Beamer they would make excellent backfield objective campers as you note: hard to shift and still effective at range. Whilst I’ve not got any yet, I do really like the models: I’d probably want to deploy them more offensively, but I imagine there’s a tougher decision as to whether one invests in other Terminator equivalents instead from other Legions…

[newmajorpanic]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:38 PM, Chaeron said:

I’d echo their possibilities, I think I’d seen people suggesting that with a Beamer they would make excellent backfield objective campers as you note: hard to shift and still effective at range. Whilst I’ve not got any yet, I do really like the models: I’d probably want to deploy them more offensively, but I imagine there’s a tougher decision as to whether one invests in other Terminator equivalents instead from other Legions…

The list I'm building toward runs a squad of Lernaeans and a squad of Fulmentarus. In other words... why not both? They have distinct roles - Lernaeans hold objectives, Fulmentarus / Siege Tyrants are shooty, and so on.

[Cadmus Tyro]

On 7/22/2022 at 1:16 AM, newmajorpanic said:

I wonder if many people (specifically, non-AL players) are underrating Lernaeans at the moment. Sure, they are WS4 meaning they are hit more easily, but Hydran Examplars restores their hitting power somewhat.

More terrifyingly, they have Line as well as It Will Not Die, meaning that they are extremely good objective holders who require less support than equivalent terminators.

Has anyone been able to deploy them in games? If I were playing Zone Mortalis, they'd be an auto-include (with Heavy Flamer), and in normal games, I'd either infiltrate a squad with the flamer, or have them sit on a backline objective with the conversion beamer.

Great catch with the “Line” rule I’d entirely overlooked that, which makes Lernaeans an even better choice. My understanding regarding their +1 to hit rule is that it also affects their shooting attacks, so they’re essentially BS5 as well. Unfortunately the rule also states that the whole squad must have it, so adding in a character to the unit will essentially debuff them, which is a shame in some ways but not a major issues considering the squad leader has three wounds! 
 

Personally I don’t think backfield objective camping is the best use for them. The conversion Beamer has always been an odd option for them as maximising it’s use essentially negates the strength and shooting of all the other squad members. Lernaeans need to be push upfield taking objectives. Leave the backfield to a squad of recons with nemesis bolters. 
 

Cadmus
 

 

[Fallen11]

Remember, Suzerain are all characters, so you can play those wound shenanigans allocations ;)

[RoadRunna]

Brothers of the Hydra... how are you equipping your Saboteur?

I have ripped off the arms of my previous model and given him twin lighting claws to maximize his HTH ability vs heavy weapon squads while relying on meltabombs should any vehicles be near. 

[xxxjtmxxx]

one has kombi melta and dagger, second has Nemesis bolter

[xxxjtmxxx]

So, i am trying to build an coils list with the warlord morbius configuration. 3000 points total. i will give the allied detachement around 1000 points. 

because i like blood angels i will take them for the allies. their row day of sorrows is perfect in combination with morbius configuration. So i would take something like that

Delegatus 

5 dawnbreaker

5 angels tears with assault cannons

3x3 Crimson Paladin 

5 Recon with shootgun

thats around 1000 points.

 

for coils i would take 3 squads of 5 da interemptor in rhino for the offensive push.

that lets 1500 points over for the Alpha legion. mainly i would take anti tank stuff but i must also take 3 units which could deep strike, Flanken or out of reserve. which one i should take? cheap recons with shotguns flanking? or better heavy stuff which Drops? i have only 1 elite choice left.

please help

edit: question. could the delegatus in the allied detachement also take an warlordthreat?

Edited August 15, 2022 by xxxjtmxxx

[ashc]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:33 PM, Slips said:

I'm personally still on the fence but am thinking real hard about starting an AL force using Mk VI marines primarily. Also, because theyre a traitor legion but have nothing overtly traitor and have a loyalist WLT and that makes me giggle.

 

My Initial idea was something along the lines of:

HQ:

• Dynat (HHL RoW)
• Exodus
• Vigilator/Saboteur

Troops:

• Headhunters w/ Multimelta, Artificer armor
• Headhunters w/ Multimelta, Artificer armor (debating swapping the rest of the squad over to Combi-grenades for free to have 24" S5 Ap4 shooting with kraks and assault 1 or melta for one, hard, hit)
• Recons w/ Snipers, Artificer, nuncio, vox and augur
• Recons w/ Snipers, Artificer, nuncio, vox and augur

Elites:

• Apothecaries w/ Artificer and Dagger; luckily they now gain all the USRs of units they join as well as unit type.
• TBD: Contemptors; No real idea on loadout

Fast Attack:

• Seekers w/ Vox, Nuncio, Augur, Arificer, Dagger
• Seekers w/ Vox, Nuncio, Augur, Arificer, Dagger

Heavy Support:

• Leviathan 2x (Melta & Drill) & (Grav & Claw)
• Deredeo 2x Arachnus Las & Autocannons

Dynats WLT would allow him to grant infiltrate to the 2 dread squadrons and himself so that the whole army can infiltrate with some being able to scout as well.

Most of the Army's infantry would also have the Skirmish sub-type allowing for a 3" Coherency the only snag in that being the HQ choices who do not have it so them joining any squad would force 2" coherency back onto them.

Unfortunately, HH's cant take Augury Scanners so if night fighting or any interception needs to happen, theyre SoL. Everyone else, though, can so thats great.

Also, just the idea of a BS5, Twin-Linked, Precision Shots 4+ Multimelta w/ Relentless makes me giggle.

The Seekers' Kraken bolters, imho, are good enough. No real need to upgrade to a magna combi or other weapon. 30" with Kraken bolts or S5 AP4 Assault 1, Breaching 4+ with Scorpius rounds means they should do fine taking out infantry.

Only point of weakness I can see is massed 2+ saves or blocks of Cataphractii Terminators or CC armies who can get in close and fast. Decided to stick with Power Daggers because of their relative cheapness and having Breaching 5+ with Sudden Strike so having the potential to take out their opponents before they swing back.

The only real CC powerhouses in the army as it stands at this stage is Dynat (if all things line up, can get 1 powersword & 6 thunderhammer attacks), the Contemptors - if included - and Leviathans.

I love the concept of this list, although on my reading Dynat can't give the dread squadrons infiltrate - units need to have the infantry keyword for Dynat's Warlord Trait to work.

Does anyone have advice on squad sizes for something like this and a Headhunter Leviathal? 5 or 10 man seekers/headhunters, and what about recons? - 5 feels small as your only line unit if you play to theme, 10 feels like maybe overkill with so many nemesis Bolters (although I may be completely wrong on that!)

[newmajorpanic]

15 hours ago, ashc said:

I love the concept of this list, although on my reading Dynat can't give the dread squadrons infiltrate - units need to have the infantry keyword for Dynat's Warlord Trait to work.

Does anyone have advice on squad sizes for something like this and a Headhunter Leviathal? 5 or 10 man seekers/headhunters, and what about recons? - 5 feels small as your only line unit if you play to theme, 10 feels like maybe overkill with so many nemesis Bolters (although I may be completely wrong on that!)

I think our rough consensus was that headhunters should be squads of 5 if you were going to take a multi-melta, since you can only take one per squad. Recons - I'm torn as well. I love the idea of 10 but it adds up quickly; 5 seems a bit small - maybe 8?

[ashc]

I think if you are running tacticals as line then you can get away with 5-man recon squads but if I was to lean into theme with the headhunter leviathals 10-man feels a bit more like it will get stuff done and hand around with that valuable Line type.

In general 5-man squads feel really flimsy in 2.0

[xxxjtmxxx]

i think there is a Spot for 3 or 4 5 man squads in Headhunter levi with mm. u cannot bring whole troops down but u can eliminate a lot of sarges, apos and so on. when u build the Rest of the army around it, it could be fun.

 

[ashc]

You are probably right when it comes to the Headhunters, one of the few units better run small - and in the Leviathal you have the slots to run quite a few squads MSU.

[Imren]

I think Headhunters work well with recon squads (with nemesis bolters and exodus). The recon squad with exodus in it stays back field and hold home objectives alternatively deploys on high ground with good field of sight. The exodus pins squads with their brutal(2) shot and the headhunters (with mulitmental and combi-grenade launcher that pairs well with multimelta, being S5 and 24" range) shoots them while they are pinned not risking reactions. A couple of lernean squads work well with this that goes for the objectives elsewhere than the deployment zone. This will also minimize you need for tacticals.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Imren

[ashc]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:50 PM, Imren said:

I think Headhunters work well with recon squads (with nemesis bolters and exodus). The recon squad with exodus in it stays back field and hold home objectives alternatively deploys on high ground with good field of sight. The exodus pins squads with their brutal(2) shot and the headhunters (with mulitmental and combi-grenade launcher that pairs well with multimelta, being S5 and 24" range) shoots them while they are pinned not risking reactions. A couple of lernean squads work well with this that goes for the objectives elsewhere than the deployment zone. This will also minimize you need for tacticals.

Headhunters also fill your compulsory troop slots to let you access the recons without having to take tacticals if you are going all in sneaky with the Headhunter Leviathal.

[Brother Sutek]

On 8/23/2022 at 9:50 AM, Imren said:

I think Headhunters work well with recon squads (with nemesis bolters and exodus). The recon squad with exodus in it stays back field and hold home objectives alternatively deploys on high ground with good field of sight. The exodus pins squads with their brutal(2) shot and the headhunters (with mulitmental and combi-grenade launcher that pairs well with multimelta, being S5 and 24" range) shoots them while they are pinned not risking reactions. A couple of lernean squads work well with this that goes for the objectives elsewhere than the deployment zone. This will also minimize you need for tacticals.

I finally will have a good reason for recon squads. I like this idea, will have to convert some recons now.

[9x19 Parabellum]

If using a unit through rewards of treachery, do you get to also take any dedicated transport that's listed on their datasheet as part of that unique selection?  Ie, If I took Gorgon Terminators from Iron Hands, would I be able to run them in an Iron Hands Land Raider / Land Raider Spartan?

[Cactus]

You should be ok to take the transport as it's an option for the unit, but it will have LA: Alpha Legion rather than whatever benefit LA: Iron Hands would normally provide.