Black Library Siege of Terra - Garro: Knight of Grey

[DukeLeto69]

9 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

 

You'll laugh....

 

An excerpt:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Seems familiar? Yeah...

 

Guess the HH authors are all big fans of John Boorman’s Excalibur!

[Corinthus]

Black Library has been consistent at making every Traitor Primarch (except maybe Perty) a clown during the Siege. Seriously, Mortarion is supposed to be a blood chilling insect-winged Death specter with a huge scythe. But every time he has a showdown he gets played like a puppy.

 

I think I'll pass on this story. Garro and Loken are the boring twins and, at this point, I just don't care no more about small stories in a setting involving the biggest battle humanity has ever seen.

 

[DarkChaplain]

10 hours ago, Fedor said:

Sometimes i wonder if the writers have got an established in-joke going, where they'll try and end as many climactic fights as they can with a very slight variation on this exact same outcome. Maybe some sly rebellion at BL's need for an action scene quota.

 

Tank an attack so you can land your own more successful counter, or at least get in a quip that cuts to the core and gives you the moral victory. Between that or someone jumping in at the vital moment to turn the tide, you've got a large chunk of the series' big fights covered.

 

It's not that big a deal at the end of the day, i mean i don't read these books for the melee blow by blow choreography, but c'mon..,

 

 

 

Technically, we can even include Sanguinius vs Angron here. Just that he went for the nails instead.

 

As for Garro, we got some saving grace, maybe:

 

 

He was actually pretty much deader than a dodo a bunch of pages prior to this. He only lived on til after this attack (and I really mean it, the story ends with his death maybe half a page later!) because of divine intervention. Keeler prays for him and he gets infused with the golden glow effect and accepts his martyrdom. "All as intended, I'll sacrifice myself for her" and all that.

...but Mortarion is even dumber as a result, because his focus on Garro (with Typhus shouting to kill him & end it all from the sidelines, and other Legion audience) leads him to let Keeler and Gallor escape. Garro makes some quips about it, and it's hard to argue that Mortarion comes away looking in any way smart or like the big bad to blokes like Typhus.

In a sense, Typhus being annoyed and buggering off to do his own thing in Warhawk almost seems rational now.
 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by DarkChaplain

[Lord Marshal]

Boy am I glad I didn't buy this.

[Nagashsnee]

If someone would give a us a rundown of the book that would be so great. A review would be even better. Is it worth buying? What is it actually about?

[wecanhaveallthree]

Is it worth buying? Well, no - not unless you're really invested in Garro and want to see his send-off, which isn't anything new or exciting.

 

As for a rundown, I'll try and do it in general terms.

Garro's been faffing about the Siege, essentially letting fate decide where he'll end up and who he'll help. Gallor - a fellow loyalist Death Guard - comes looking for him. He's essentially been doing the same thing. Turns out there's one particular bastion, Marmax, that's been doing really well despite everything. They're pretty much the only point that is doing anything useful outside the main ones. Garro twigs that Keeler's there, and resolves to go get her, since he's pledged to protect her and dying in some random redoubt is kind of a waste.

 

So they go over and, boy howdy, there's Keeler. They chat, they fight some random cultists, Garro is like 'you gotta go, babe' and Keeler is like 'nah I'm actually taking a break from being an Imperial Saint right now, sorry'. Mortarion and Typhus catch wind of all this and decide, hey, we're gonna go put an end to that kind of thing. Typhus is constantly sniping at Mortarion who just takes it because the plot says he has to. The Death Guard turn up and Gallor stage-dives a Helbrute. It is very cool, but his armour gets blowed up. Dang, that sucks! Garro and Keeler chat about faith and meaning and oh my god it's terminally boring because neither of them are sure what they want or what they really believe at this point, so it's just interminable waffling. Garro makes Gallor take his copy of the Leticicoco (you go, glen coco), even though Gallor is like 'no i don't want your smelly book'. Garro will perform a heroic LAST STAND while Gallor and Keeler escape with some survivors to go somethere less useless. Yes, they can just fly off, because Mortarion and friends are just walking at them - MENACINGLY.

 

Anyway, Garro and Mortarion fight for half the story. Mortarion is pretty buttmad about Garro's continued defiance, UP TO AND INCLUDING POURING OUT HIS CUP, THAT'S ICE COLD, and resolves to not just kill Garro but use his corpse as a host for the Lord of Flies. Doubly ice cold! It's getting glacial out there! Typhus thinks this is all a bit melodramatic, and as the least chill of them, demands Mortarion just shoot Garro, or send Typhus out to Destroyer Hive him, or literally anything except 'get bogged down in a gruelling duel'. Mortarion is like NO YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO STEAL GRANDFATHER'S FAVOUR REEEEE I HATE YOU TYPHUS THAT'S WHY I LET YOU BE MEAN TO ME ALL THE TIME MY CHARACTER MOTIVATIONS ARE NOT CONFUSING. Garro does eventually take a Silence to the shoulder and it looks like it's curtains for him. 

 

But lo and behold, KEELER was on the battlements, and she totally prays and gives Garro and big power boost! It's like being the Emperor's Champion, up to and including a weird focus on his sweet sword, Libertas! Conscious decision or wacky coincidence? That's for you to decide, because the book sure as hell isn't going to explain anything. He matches Mortarion strength-for-unnatural-strength (H-HE'S STRONG) and says really mean things to him, which Mortarion - of course - hates. He does eventually get the upper hand and deals a mortal blow, but wait! After all that fighting, Keeler and Gallor escaped! Garro tells Mortarion he's just sealed his own death (well, eventually, probably). Then he stabs Mortarion right in the throat and, while Mortarion is stumbling around going arghhhhblarghbarlgh, Garro turns into DUST (so his body can't be used for any naughtiness) and he sees an AWESOME VISION of a gold-armoured figure beckoning to him, with the suggestion that his soul is being saved for later.

 

Oh yeah and there's some flashbacks of moments where Garro was like 'yo I think being a loyalist is pretty sweet' while Mortarion and Typhus giggle and go 'haha get a load of this guy he doesn't even know about how we're totally going to betray the imperium haha'. 

 

It's not great, but Swallow's a decent writer and Garro's ultimate demise is solid. He does get his martyrdom, but it's really not a book that ties into much if anything. It's solely focused on 'who is Garro and how did he go out', with a very brief smattering of 'Mortarion is smelly and constantly victimised by Typhus'.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Kelborn
Spoiler tags added

[Nagashsnee]

Thanks man! Will borrow it off a mate at some point by the sounds of it.  If that, the imperial faith in my view should never have had a strong pressence in the HH and they killed any interest in the Garro story i had 3 Lokens ago so it might be a pass. altogether. 

 

I dont know what it is with Mortarion and Typhus that BL cant just agree on a single narative/relationship for them.

[Roomsky]

3 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

-snip-

 

In order to maintain my trademark strong and consistent morals, I will still read it myself before making final judgment. That said, that summary was hilarious.

 

I can't say I'm surprised by that synopsis, though, and it's eternally disappointing (if not unexpected) we got a the novella equivalent of "Garro dies facing down Mortarion while Keeler escapes" pitch everyone and their mother saw coming. I maintain setting this post-Warhawk would have been infinitely more interesting, with Garro having to deal with the fact he's NOT getting the big morally superior showdown and martyrdom he's always secretly been hoping for, but IMO Garro stories haver NEVER taken the interesting route.

 

Garro delivering the Aaroniero Sigismund Special with his dying breath thing is comical, though. Maybe Sanguinius, Horus, and the Emperor will do it too! The latter will REALLY shake up the formula, both Horus and the Emperor will tank the other's mortal blow so they, in return, can deliver a SECOND mortal blow!

[wecanhaveallthree]

I maintain the best use of it through the series has absolutely been Dorn no-selling Alpharius' attack on Pluto. It's so perfectly Dorn, knowing exactly how much punishment he has to take to win the fight. Helps the whole book is French on top form, too. 

 

And I absolutely agree that post-Warhawk, even post-Siege Old Man Garro would have been enormously interesting. His work was done. He delivered Keeler to where she had to be, and the Imperial Cult is starting to rise to prominence as the Emperor has ascended the Golden Throne. There's a very strong theme of 'planting trees whose shade you'll never rest beneath', and Garro being able to lay down his weapons - and the Faith being what allows him to do that, to 'break' the Astartes conditioning (and no small amount of his, let's be frank, love for Keeler) and find peace beyond all the blood and betrayal. Garro surviving when so many others didn't, to see everything he did pay off from the Grey Knights to the rise of the Faith, would have made him wholly distinct from Loken and the others. Garro was one of very few who were working for a future beyond 'grrr spacedad'. He deserved to see it.

 

I do like your take, but I also think there's enough - maybe more than enough - 'character dies pointlessly' stories. Garro deserved that title of 'first martyr' not because he literally died, but because he sacrificed everything for his beliefs. He died a metaphysical, metaphorical death, like the questing knights of Arthurian fable, passing from life into legend.

[Roomsky]

Oh no, my fetish preference for pointless death has been found out.

 

Generally, I agree. I would absolutely take Garro dying as an even older man post-Heresy, with lots of reflection on what came before. Really, my issue with the Siege (beyond it reading terribly back to back) is the continued obsession with epic melees. Like, I get it, 2 characters of rival ideologies dramatically crossing blades, I LIVE for that :cuss: in fiction. Any action film could be improved by a sword fight at the end. But the fluff they're adapting never read like dramatically fine-tuned space opera to me, I always appreciated that it captured the scope of a galaxy-wide war.

 

Yes, Horus, Sanguinius, and the Emperor all have dramatic showdowns, but even then that's more the natural result of an assassination plan, not primarchs gravitiating together on an open battlefield. Consider the others: Dorn is savaged by Curze, then they never meet again. Curze is assassinated, Dorn shows up after the battle with Horus, and is eventually killed by overwhelming numbers. Dorn and Perturabo's rivalry was never expressed through a duel, always through the battlefield. Guilliman is ganked by Fulgrim, despite having no rivalry beyond opposite sides. The traitors leave after losing the battle for Terra, and their primarchs ascend to daemonhood. The loyalist primarchs die off or just vanish. It always read like a big war to me, not a series of celebrity grudge matches. 

 

And sure, the Heresy has long since kicked off those trappings because every primarch who ever looked at one of his brothers funny gets to duel them. Loken even gets to go on the one mission he absolutely should not be sent on so he can chew out Horus. But I think you can still deliver big, meaningful moments through characters never getting their imaginary fateful duel. Mortarion's been banished? A good chance for self reflection for Garro, and he can still have a meaningful send-off dying to Typhus, the architect of his legion's death, if not the face of it. 

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

 It always read like a big war to me, not a series of celebrity grudge matches. 

 

Ah, but Roomsky, that's where you make your fatal mistake. People don't want to read 'big war', they want TERRAMANIA THIRTY THOUSAND. Self-reflection by itself doesn't move print, so it needs to be attached to - and happen during - dramatic showdowns. Garro delivers exposition and reflection every time he opens his mouth during his fight with Mortarion, and it is genuinely quite funny because it is so obviously pasted on to the 'epic duel'. 'By the way,' Garro says as they clash weapons, 'did you know that I had misgivings back on Barbarus.' 'No, really?' says Mortarion, teeth gritted as blades lock. 'I never know. Please, go on.' 'Well, it was some two hundred years ago, and I was wearing a chainsword on my belt, as was the fashion at the time...'

[DarkChaplain]

I like the idea of Garro surviving and putting himself into retirement post-Siege.

 

You know what else they could have done? Made him have a post-Heresy vision from the Emperor, telling him Morty's True Name, so that the Grey Knights could one day use it in the whole Mortarion's Heart incident. Right where Mortarion was gloating about the origin of the Grey Knights and how he has an oh-so-funny personal joke to tell about Janus aka Ianius, which doesn't actually work anymore now that Ianius is Arvida+shard of Magnus.

It'd have elevated Mortarion's Heart in my eyes if that whole thing still somehow came down to the ONE guy who refused to yield to the end, the One True Death Guard he could never cow, being the key factor in his banishment all these millennia later. Instead they just... knew somehow, at some point, what to carve into him. Okay.

 

But even aside from a possible tie-in to later events, I'd have found it far more interesting to see Garro being one of the Old Faithful that'd see the Codex Astartes being rolled out, the Ecclesiarchy coming to be, and then maybe being dragged back into some sort of final decision by his god ringing the spirit phone to tell him he's gotta do something for him.

I'd have rather seen him lamenting the institution that'd come to rise from Keeler's sainthood and the Lectitio. I'd have rather seen him being a voice of reason and "true" faith in the face of a church growing monstrous, using faith as a tool of oppression... and being assassinated for his defiance to the new doctrine.

 

I'd have rather seen him have to come to terms with the future he helped built and all it would mean for the Imperium and Legions. Pitch his purity of faith against the growing zealotry of the Templars, or the disdain of the Custodes. Make him fight his holy war in the palaces of Terra, against self-serving preachers, rather than traitors and daemons. And make him fail. Make him recognize that he either opened the door for a new, corrupted faith, against his ideals and views on what the Emperor would have wanted in life... or realize even harder that he was a pawn of the God-Emperor in establishing his own divinity and use it in exactly the way it was intended, throwing his belief right back into doubt.

 

A freakin' duel against Mortarion, just going through the motions, ticking off a box and nothing more, so insignificant to the two novels chronologically succeeding Knight of Grey that they didn't even make a brief mention of Garro or the incident when Keeler was brought up.... yeah, no, that wasn't it.

 

And there's simply no way in hell that Jim Swallow can go and say this in the afterword and actually believe it:

 

Quote

There will be some among you reading this who may not be happy about Garro’s ultimate fate – but to those readers, I can only remind you that the Horus Heresy has always been a tragedy. It’s a story about belief and sacrifice, and the truth behind the lies. It was never going to have a happy ending.

Today, Nathaniel’s story concludes – but his example and his legend, like all true heroes of myth and fable, will never die.

 

The way Garro got done in here isn't tragic for the reasons Swallow seems to think it is. It's farcical, if anything.

[Roomsky]

Further to your last point, DC, I think it's also worth noting that Garro's fate isn't... really a tragedy at all. Garro defeating Mortarion is a pipe dream, a motivating fantasy. Astartes want to die in battle, righteously. He spat in Mortarion's eye, stabbed him in the throat, and gave him a moral dressing down, all the while being vindicated in his faith and succesfully saving his saint. That death is the dream of astartes everywhere.

 

It's like saying it's a tragedy if Tyrion dies of old age in bed with a pretty lady instead of growing to 6 feet tall, riding a dragon, and burning his father to death.

[Felix Antipodes]

I could believe Swallow’s line of Garro’s  example and legend “will never die” if there was some mention in the canon about Saint Garro.  Seems no one remembers at all…

[bluntblade]

19 hours ago, Roomsky said:

Yes, Horus, Sanguinius, and the Emperor all have dramatic showdowns, but even then that's more the natural result of an assassination plan, not primarchs gravitiating together on an open battlefield. Consider the others: Dorn is savaged by Curze, then they never meet again. Curze is assassinated, Dorn shows up after the battle with Horus, and is eventually killed by overwhelming numbers. Dorn and Perturabo's rivalry was never expressed through a duel, always through the battlefield. Guilliman is ganked by Fulgrim, despite having no rivalry beyond opposite sides. The traitors leave after losing the battle for Terra, and their primarchs ascend to daemonhood. The loyalist primarchs die off or just vanish. It always read like a big war to me, not a series of celebrity grudge matches. 

 

And sure, the Heresy has long since kicked off those trappings because every primarch who ever looked at one of his brothers funny gets to duel them. Loken even gets to go on the one mission he absolutely should not be sent on so he can chew out Horus. But I think you can still deliver big, meaningful moments through characters never getting their imaginary fateful duel. Mortarion's been banished? A good chance for self reflection for Garro, and he can still have a meaningful send-off dying to Typhus, the architect of his legion's death, if not the face of it. 

Agreed. Even when Saturnine played hard into "what if X fought Y?" it was at least couched in the context of a battle (helps that it's one I really enjoy). And beyond a certain point, you're looking at diminishing returns unless you pull something really distinctive and audacious out of the bag (Abaddon's stages of grief, Jaghatai vs Mortarion, the pitiless glory of Khârn and Sigismund's duel and Khârn's horror at what the Templar has become).

 

Also would've been nice to have some depictions of the Death Guard who weren't present in Warhawk. Not that I have any expectation of Swallow saying Yes And to anything Wraight ventures, but I'd have liked a sighting of my man Vorx.

[DarkChaplain]

I had to make a double-take at one line, by the way:

 

Quote

When Horus’ fleet had come, when his ships had darkened the sky, some stirring of martial exhilaration had been reborn in Garro’s twin hearts. He stood with his ersatz kinsman Garviel Loken and made ready for a battle of such glory that it would be sung of for ten thousand years; but the reality of the grinding, monstrous siege-war had burned through that.

 

"Ersatz" has long since been taken up as a loanword, but often it is used in a way that makes a native German scratch his or her head. In this instance, it's ironically rather funny, considering our Loken-Garro discussions.

 

"Ersatz" means replacement. Substitute. Compensation. An alternative filling in. You demand it when your new purchase turns out damaged, you look for one when you lost the original, etc.

 

Swallow is trying to make Garro think of Loken as a replacement brother to make up for the lost Legion brotherhood, yes. But it's unintentionally tragicomedic because "Ersatz" is exactly what Loken is to Garro himself, not his gene-brothers.

[MarineRaiderII]

I had to reply to this thread. All my account stuff got lost when the site was rebuilt and no-one would reply with help so like Garro I am hoping to reincarnate.

 

Personally, I loved this book. I am one of the few that grows weary of the grim dark with no hope. Perhaps it's my day job and everything I have seen but that last portion of this book uplifted me just as when the Master of Mankind aided RG against the same oath-breaker.  I believe personally we are seeing a a subtle but noticeable shift in this setting. The E will be an active God that some will relate to being a good vs. evil God which with some of us will be relatable. 

 

I was in Poland for 6 months training some people and I have to tell you that 40k is pretty universal and I was shocked how many Ukrainians read the HH. it was awesome. I will leave it there but we all have optimism and hope for a future that isn't always bleak. The ending of this book I hope is the harbinger of more optimism in this setting. I know this is a lone voice, most like the grim dark etc etc and I respect that, but I have said, I don't play the board game and just enjoy the books.

 

be well everyone. Cannot wait for the last Siege books.

[Matcap86]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:54 PM, wecanhaveallthree said:

Is it worth buying? Well, no - not unless you're really invested in Garro and want to see his send-off, which isn't anything new or exciting.

 

As for a rundown, I'll try and do it in general terms.

 

 

 

I had more fun with your review than I did with the book 

[DarkChaplain]

Properly finished the audiobook now.

 

My impression overall is that this really would have been much better being released as a 2-disc audio drama. Scope and cast are so incredibly limited, it would have worked with little to no changes (apart from condensing exposition somewhat). The setpieces and action scenes struck me pretty much like what Swallow would write for audio dramas before.

 

Had it actually been an audio drama, I think reception would've been better. Even with the audiobook, I think what actually sold it was Toby Longworth's performance, rather than the writing on its own. Toby is Garro, and he sells his martyrdom in a way that at least gave me a sense of closure that the text itself failed to do. When Toby narrates Garro's final moments, it feels impactful. When I read those final pages on my own, I did not feel even close to that.

 

Sticking with Longworth for Garro's story conclusion was also the only decision they could make, as a result. I'd argue that Keeble would have not been capable of capturing Nathaniel Garro's final outing with anywhere close to the same gravitas; Toby is instantly recognizable and feels like a friend coming back for one more show, whereas Keeble, I believe, hasn't even stayed consistent in his own renditions of Mortarion so far.

 

Anyway, there are some additional sore spots for me peppered throughout. Mortarion lets himself be goaded time and again, acts like a fool and... for some reason still remarks about Typhus knowing "true loyalty", unlike Garro. Mate, Typhus literally sold you out to his god last time after ditching you and ignoring your summons for years while pursuing his own elevation. You literally told Eidolon to drag him back to you by any means to punish him (which Swallow had forgotten about during his turn following Wraight's). Typhus is anything but loyal to you, and you still haven't accepted it. No wonder the next thing he does in Warhawk is once again ignore your orders and wait for you to get killed.

 

Then there's the matter of Mortarion making himself look like a fool in front of his Legion again, not just through his decisions, but also because... for a Primarch, and a daemon no less, he's a rather poor show. Even if the whole point is to humble your opponent, the amount of blunders he is depicted as making is just a tad silly. I didn't feel menace from him. I didn't feel surprised when he flubbed. I don't think Mortarion's depiction here is up to the usual Primarch demigod of battle standards, even when taking into account that he wasn't going at it the same way he would with the Khan.

 

A lot of words overall are also utterly wasted on lengthy titles. Instead of just saying "Typhus", how about we just call him "the Traveler" over and over and over. Same for Garro, who isn't named for a good while, going by stuff like "the Legionary" - even later on, Swallow finds ways to not simply call characters by their names. Considering we only have, like, around 10 characters running about in the entire novella, some of which only appear in one or two brief scenes, just call 'em by their names instead of sticking with titles overmuch.

 

And then we have a small moment that made me roll my eyes: A barbaran woman asks Garro why the Emperor wasted resources by not making female Space Marines. The way it was handled seemed pretty much like you'd see on Twitter. It wasn't anything serious, nothing plot relevant (though it helps show the barbarans as a waste-not culture, in a sense), but I'm not sure it was worth including the quip.

 

Again, I believe that all of this stuff, especially the battle and repetitive titles, would have been far less grating had this actually been an audio drama, not a novella. The repetition would've been much reduced by having actors talking through dialogue instead, for one, and the battle's flow, brutality and shifts would have been better delivered with sound effects, grunts and what not, rather than in Swallow's prose. I do not believe there's anything in this book that could not have been achieved in a 2-disc audio drama, like Sword of Truth was back then.

 

Heck, I think the dialogue, for all its camp, would be nearly perfect for the audio dramatization, where it has to carry a lot of the atmosphere, mood and mindsets of characters. You can get away with a lot more there. And even the way it ends would have been a perfect fade to black for an audio drama - heck, it fits the format like a glove.

 

Funnily enough, I enjoyed Keeler's appearance more than I did in Warhawk. There's always been a gap between crazy skull collector Keeler from Warhawk and the prisoner we see freed in Mortis. However, her placement here is awkward, timeline-wise.

Chronologically, Keeler is released at the end of Mortis, and fleeing in Warhawk. In the latter, she is observed by Custodes up to a point, who make it look like her "release" was very recent, as Amon is reporting about it to Valdor. She starts collecting skulls very early.

 

In Knight of Grey, Keeler is decidedly not worshipping skulls yet. She's with a garrison, having drifted to them, telling them to endure and all. She's not like in Warhawk, not telling people to mob the Astartes down, to sell their lives for Him on the Throne. She's actually going around patching up wounds and doubting herself, her role, her actions.

Her appearance here, however, ends with an escape on a shuttle, off to closer to the sanctum, with an escort and the remainder of the garrison. She's not fleeing headlessly, she's not fresh out of the Blackstone (though she mentions it), she's not collecting skulls and she's not on her own.

 

If it's set before Warhawk, there's a contradiction, and if it's set during Warhawk, there is another.

However, as a transitionary piece, I think it works for Keeler. It makes no sense for her to never remark on Garro or Gallor in Warhawk, but oh well. There's a plothole between these Siege stories, but we're used to that by now.

 

But then, the book also addresses some things. For one, Mortarion earns his wings here. He wasn't depicted with them in Saturnine, I believe, even when talking to Ahzek and Magnus. He did, however, have them in Warhawk - where the Khan scoffs at them, and Morty says they're fairly new.

In Saturnine, Mortarion also brings up how he's hearing voices. The realization of what they were comes here, and I thought it was neat to have that point not be forgotten like so many other things in this series.

 

But again, this book is awkwardly placed. It doesn't even make clear reference to when it is actually set - you have to infer that from details that may or may not be actually conclusive. There is hardly anything to reference other events from the Siege novels. Nothing about Mortarion picking up from where the Iron Warriors left off, nothing about his heart-to-heart with Magnus. Nothing even about the Khan, despite them having a bit of a go before. There's a brief mention of having last seen Gallor at Saturnine, but in general it feels very much like a detached one-off story of the Siege. Which, again, would make a lot more sense had it been an audio drama that's traditionally light on such detail - not a novella that is so much shorter than it reasonably should have been. Again, the ebook is around 15-20% done by the time you reach chapter one, and there is no prologue.

Exposition is almost entirely used on setpieces, like the architecture of the arena or walls being rapelled down. It's not used to anchor the story within the Siege on the whole.

 

Then, the first Interval flashback section is almost a play-by-play recap of Mortarion honoring Garro back in Flight of the Eisenstein by inviting him to drink from the poison chalice. The difference is that the perspective is changed from Garro to Mortarion, who was trying to figure out if Garro would follow him into betrayal. Typhon didn't think so (and was kind of insubordinate even here), but overall that flashback was nostalgic. I liked it, especially since it foreshadowed something happening later.

 

The second flashback, which is set about a year after Mortarion was found iirc, also serves to illustrate Garro. Apart from the weird female marines line, I liked this one too, as it showed Garro trying to understand the barbarans and their culture, trying to find a way to become one with them. I also found it pretty clever to have Garro reconciling his brotherhood not with how he's a son of Mortarion, but by Mortarion and the barbarans all being sons of Terra, deep down. Generations removed, sure, but still humans who originally came from the same place he did. He accepted their culture and brotherhood on the basis of their genetic heritage as a species, not simply by gene-father.

 

As a novella, it's very much concerned with itself, and only itself. That's a good thing in a way, but also makes it awkward as part of the series (albeit in a different way than Echoes of Eternity, which deliberately cut off other threads). But if you told me that it was originally written as an audio drama, whether as prose with it in mind or adapted from a script-in-progress, and that's part of why it was seemingly delayed til two books after it should have been published, I'd instantly believe you. If they actually pivoted at some point during the pandemic to not have this be audio but a novella, it'd make sense - and I have to admit that I wouldn't like that.

[Felix Antipodes]

I thought the line about why no female Astartes was a personal dig from an author who may be on his way out of the IP, only hanging on to finish an outstanding storyline.  Obviously just imho of course, but it will be interesting to see if Swallow continues now the HH is finished.

[DukeLeto69]

10 hours ago, Felix Antipodes said:

I thought the line about why no female Astartes was a personal dig from an author who may be on his way out of the IP, only hanging on to finish an outstanding storyline.  Obviously just imho of course, but it will be interesting to see if Swallow continues now the HH is finished.

For all the hate Swallow gets from the fandom, if he stops writing for BL it will be because his original fiction is selling pretty well. So well in fact that he has sold film/TV rights (or an option) for his Mark Dane books. He doesn’t need BL and his payday/royalty rate is probably far better with original fiction than tie-in.

[DarkChaplain]

He's also writing other tie-in fiction, like Star Trek and Doctor Who. Heck, other publishers and IPs hire him specifically for his audio/radio drama work. Just in December, they had a Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell BBC production based on his earlier novel! He gets to write scripts all over the place (and it shows in his skill with the medium), it's just BL that shut that format off. He's also another author for Aconyte, where he tackled Watchdogs alongside Josh Reynolds. He's doing Stargate for Big Finish (who BL once had a working relationship with for audio productions). Even Deus Ex had multiple novels and stories commissioned.

 

Even without going into his original works, he's sought after in the industry, and they let him do what he's good at. BL does not. Heck, BL even killed the entire format and thus never gave him a follow-up on the supposed Corsair series. For all my gripes with his works in the Heresy, he's another of the authors that Black Library is underutilizing / limiting in a tangible way, to a point where he'd need seriously high royalties or a seriously large love for the IP to even make further contributions worth his while.

[DukeLeto69]

38 minutes ago, DarkChaplain said:

He's also writing other tie-in fiction, like Star Trek and Doctor Who. Heck, other publishers and IPs hire him specifically for his audio/radio drama work. Just in December, they had a Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell BBC production based on his earlier novel! He gets to write scripts all over the place (and it shows in his skill with the medium), it's just BL that shut that format off. He's also another author for Aconyte, where he tackled Watchdogs alongside Josh Reynolds. He's doing Stargate for Big Finish (who BL once had a working relationship with for audio productions). Even Deus Ex had multiple novels and stories commissioned.

 

Even without going into his original works, he's sought after in the industry, and they let him do what he's good at. BL does not. Heck, BL even killed the entire format and thus never gave him a follow-up on the supposed Corsair series. For all my gripes with his works in the Heresy, he's another of the authors that Black Library is underutilizing / limiting in a tangible way, to a point where he'd need seriously high royalties or a seriously large love for the IP to even make further contributions worth his while.

 

I *think* therein lies the problem. Swallow and Abnett particularly are very successful tie-in authors for a lot of other IPs. And I think it can show in their BL work.

 

Abnett is better but gets it wrong on occasion (The Unremembered Empire) but I think the influence of other IPs dilutes the approach and deep understanding of the HH/40k IP/setting.

 

In Swallow’s case I think this is most obvious with Nemesis (basically a Manga comic - a good yarn and well written but didn’t feel like HH) and some of the Garro / Knights Errant stories (my hatred of the Star Wars style zipping around the galaxy with no warp dilation affect or impact from the Ruinstorm is well documented on B&C).

[DarkChaplain]

I'd argue against Nemesis being a manga-like (or that there even is something like that, considering the breadth of the medium and the myriad of intricate genres). I experienced it more like it wanted to be a crime thriller on one hand and a heist-style assassination plot on the other... and kind of forgot about both not even halfway through. It's still one of the longer Heresy novels, but the further you get, the less compelling it becomes - because it doesn't stick with what works. The Dagonet murder mystery was extremely promising, but it was just tossed aside for a cheap, early twist.

 

The murder mystery then leaves for shallow action and - indeed - setting-defying new inventions in the form of that Spear-assassin, who was a Pariah daemon host. I am still baffled that this is something the editors and IP lords approved of, because it directly contradicted the established rules.

 

As for the shuttles zipping around the galaxy, I think it could have been established by way of, say, Malcador's personal access to highly classified Dark Age of Technology material, something exceedingly rare and unknown to all but the Emperor's innermost circle.

 

It's not like the setting couldn't allow for it - but it had to a) be a limited piece of technology and b) thoroughly established and explained to be such, to have its exceptionalism remarked upon.

 

I could see why they'd skip this for Garro: Oath of Moment, being one of the first audio dramas they did, limited to a 70 minute CD format. But at the latest, it needed to be added to Garro: Weapon of Fate, where those audio dramas were stitched together. But instead of adding this context, smoothing out the bumps, making sure that the general flow works.... it was a poor man's job of a patch-up "novel" that added very very little, and certainly didn't fix the problems even when it reasonably could and should have. That's why Weapon of Fate always felt phoned in.

[Felix Antipodes]

5 hours ago, DukeLeto69 said:

For all the hate Swallow gets from the fandom, if he stops writing for BL it will be because his original fiction is selling pretty well. So well in fact that he has sold film/TV rights (or an option) for his Mark Dane books. He doesn’t need BL and his payday/royalty rate is probably far better with original fiction than tie-in.

No personal slur on Swallow was intended.  I was referring to his diminishing BL output of late compared to his output elsewhere, as both yourself and @DarkChaplain explained way better than me