Praetor - strategy, tactics and equipment

[Captain Idaho]

There are varying degrees of experience in the Horus Heresy community but most of all we want to recruit others, so I'm going to start a series of discussions and encourage others to do so that focus on the more mundane questions to the veterans amongst you. The intent behind this is to build a foundation of knowledge for people to draw from and attract others to a friendly and informative guide from fellows from within the community.

 

Starting with the pride of a non-Primarch Legion force and the character and beatstick, let's talk about the Praetor.

 

Questions we can answer - what weapons to give a Praetor, what armour (i.e. what type) and who to run him with?

 

How does this differ from Legion to Legion, or army build to army build, Rites of War included?

 

Please share your thoughts, including your experiences or just your themed preferences if you like. There's room for all sorts here!

Edited October 25, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Both warhawk jump pack and spatha bike with a thunder hammer are two of my favorite builds.

[Brother_Angelus]

I like to make my Praetor cheap and dirty in Tartaros Armour with Headsman's Axe and a Volkite Charger. He only runs to 127pts and exists just to unlock a RoW and provide a bit of extra punch to a unit of Contekar or a Tartaros Command Squad. The extra wound from the armour is nice, even with his Invuln being a little lower.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I’m thinking of doing one for a Company of Bitter Iron army, with the Iron Father upgrade, and a boarding shield + charnabal tabar. The tabar is for general use, with the servo arms of the machinator array providing heavy-duty combat power. 

[arnesh88]

If going cheap for master of the legion, just go with a delegatus consul.

 

If the praetor is durable enough (battle hardened, 3+ invul, toughness 5, etc) go for stronger unwieldy weapons like Thunder hammers

 

basically, equip them with jump packs/bikes/boarding shields/terminator armour with whatever squad you want to join. Avoids breaking special rules of units, and lets them fit in appropriate transports given room.

 

Salamanders: Can’t go wrong with Thunder hammer and Dragonscale shield. Usually go with either the normal praetor or cataphractii. Most salamanders players tend to agree that the mantle of the elder drake is not worth the points. The main thing it would protect you from in most cases is a rando sergeant power fist. It does nothing against paragon blade murderous strike (or any other murderous strikes) and very little vs Thunder hammers or dreadnought fists due to Brutal. I’m personally running mine in artificer armour to join other power armoured units, but that’s because I have a catephractii consul (champion) for my Covenant of Fire RoW to join pyroclasts or firedrakes in the land raider, also with Dragonscale shield to act as basically a 2nd combat praetor.

[suxdavide]

I like mine with paragon blade and as durable as possible.

 

I run a JPed one with the RG and a tartaros (with Gal Vorbaks) on a land raider in my WB list.

 

If I'm looking for a cheap alternaive I'd rather use a delegatus (which unlocks the RoW) and holds a very nice ability

[Captain Idaho]

Seems durable is something many people consider essential. Each Legion does than slightly differently of course, for example Ultramarines can use the Mantle of Ultramar to protect against instant death of double toughness.

 

Paragon blades look fun but we know they won't be carving through Terminators as easily. Unless you roll lots of 6s, which I don't generally! Still, your Praetor shouldn't be soloing a squad of Elites anyway, so I still favour the Paragon Blade as many players will be mitigating instant death on their Praetors using Battle-Hardened where they can. And besides, you can still kill lessor characters and infantry with the weapon and might just roll that Murderous Strike...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

A Paragon Blade is the same points as a Thunder Hammer. I've seen too many times where a paragon blade does nothing to a unit of cataphractii terminators or in a challenge with an opposing praetor, only to lose the praetor to a fist or thunder hammer. Brutal (2) is just too good and important to give up.

 

Personally, I don't rely on the durability of a praetor because I use squad characters/sergeants/retinues to absorb challenges. In most cases I use my mobility to stear away from units with melee precision attacks, and a paragon blade isnt getting through those elites anyway. I do lean more into statistics though. I'm not worried about a contempor with 3 attacks killing anything of importance when faced against specialist units with WS 5+. The thunder hammer at least gives options against T8 leviathans. I'm worried about melee precision attacks, and I try to snipe out all thunder hammers and powerfists at higher initiative steps or through snipers.

 

Edit: in my case it would be better to take a power weapon on praetor since I can take Bane of Tyrants or no God's or Masters, which essentially makes a cheap power weapon more deadly, and offers additional attacks. In a challenge S7 paragon blades sound so good on paper, and you're re-rolling 1s to wound, yet that pesky 4+++ or better kicks in, along with FnP rolls. A 1/6 chance to instant death doesn't feel good, especially when your 16% chance gets negated by a >/= 50% invuln save, or the unit has Eternal Warrior. So it would be better to simply force more attacks or more saves. 

 

Since I've switched to a Thunder Hammer I haven't looked back.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Dont-Be-Haten
Cleared up verbage

[Bung]

For IF, there is a loophole i hope will get FaQed.

 

Stormshield for a Charakter like a Preator doesnt replace a weapon, so you can have a PA Preator with Bolter, Boltpistole, Chainsword and Stormshield for example.

 

But for games i stick with Stormshield and Solarite Power Gauntlet.

S10 is great against Battle Hardened, T5 etc. and the SPG isnt a specialist weapon.

A small niche the SPG is better than a Thunderhammer.

 

As for Armour i mostly use Artificer or Tartaros Terminator Armour for being able to sweep.

 

Depending of the rest of the army Cataphractii isnt bad for a teleporting Preator.

[Reyner]

My Warsmith is rocking Cataphractii Armour, Servo arm, combi bolter and Thunder Hammer - yet to use him in a game but he looks very cool hanging out with a Dominator Squad instead of babysitting Siege Tyrants or Iron Havocs. After the FAQ I could cheap out and just give him a power weapon since the servo arm is bonkers now but he's already built. 

[Captain Idaho]

I think it's hard to argue with Thunder Hammers since they're so rocking, with the S8 and Brutal 2.

 

Still, fluffy, themed lists with Paragon blades also look cool. That's where I lean right now, since it is still a good weapon. You just ain't cracking Terminators with them.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Strategically, there isn't a very good case for the praetor any more.

 

Their whole shtick in 1st was being a beat stick with a Paragon blade and unlocking rites. The delegatus coming out in 2016 made them only really be necessary to mow through stuff with their 7 attacks at initiative ap2. In 2nd, it's basically the same situation, except the consuls provide for far more utility and the praetors attacks are worse (the increase of multiwound models make the Paragon less good, and they lost an attack after digital weapons got cut). 

 

You take them if you really just want to fight people, the best loadout being thunderhammer and a mobility option like jump pack or bike. The Terminator option gives you the bonus wound and inexorable to grind it out, but lost a lot of point efficiency now that the invul is built into the praetor by default. 

 

But if you really want units to fight with, you just compare a praetor and feel bad. Best to use the HQ slot for something that helps your army in other ways.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

I think it's hard to argue with Thunder Hammers since they're so rocking, with the S8 and Brutal 2.

 

Still, fluffy, themed lists with Paragon blades also look cool. That's where I lean right now, since it is still a good weapon. You just ain't cracking Terminators with them.

I agree. I also think that technically every praetor load out is fluffy because everyone gravitates to their own niche thing, or what not. Like character X may wield a power maul, but it is out of necessity rather than desire. They may prefer a sword or axe, but all they have in this moment is that power maul.

 

Paragon Blades are a sexy initiative AP 2 pick for sure, and if that's how you lean its 100% fine. For me, the Aggressive Terran Born Xeric tribesmen Praetor with a thunder hammer and jump pack screams Fluffy. :)

[Captain Idaho]

Hey I love brute force as much as anyone! But I'm theming my list on Armatura which means a swordsman Praetor.

 

Otherwise it'd be Thunder Hammer all the way!

[Runefyre]

25 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Hey I love brute force as much as anyone! But I'm theming my list on Armatura which means a swordsman Praetor.

 

Otherwise it'd be Thunder Hammer all the way!

My Ultramarines Praetor has done just fine with a paragon blade, with a Mantle of Ultramar and an apothecary in his squad he's quite resilient to enemy attacks. 

[jaxom]

Death Guard don't have many good options for AP2 weapons that other legions don't. A praetor with a paragon blade is good for challenging 1W Veteran Sergeants, but otherwise....

[Dark Legionnare]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:40 AM, SkimaskMohawk said:

Strategically, there isn't a very good case for the praetor any more.

 

Their whole shtick in 1st was being a beat stick with a Paragon blade and unlocking rites. The delegatus coming out in 2016 made them only really be necessary to mow through stuff with their 7 attacks at initiative ap2. In 2nd, it's basically the same situation, except the consuls provide for far more utility and the praetors attacks are worse (the increase of multiwound models make the Paragon less good, and they lost an attack after digital weapons got cut). 

 

You take them if you really just want to fight people, the best loadout being thunderhammer and a mobility option like jump pack or bike. The Terminator option gives you the bonus wound and inexorable to grind it out, but lost a lot of point efficiency now that the invul is built into the praetor by default. 

 

But if you really want units to fight with, you just compare a praetor and feel bad. Best to use the HQ slot for something that helps your army in other ways.

This is what I've come to find too in my couple games. Steering the praetor clear of terminators has become a necessity now, it feels like. (I'm a bit spoiled for durability though with the new Luna Wolves legion rules meaning I'm not getting ID'd by fists, hammers, etc.... in INF vs INF fights on the first round.)

So much so that I've ended up usually having my 2-3 HQ's be:

• (Basically in every game) Delegatus in Cataphractii w/chainfist and combi (the calth lad)
  • has the morale affect, RoW unlocker, okay fighter...
• Champion w/Paragon for any paragon-slicing that needs to be had
  • Also has his "if he did a duel, you're fearless" effect
• Chaplain w/various gear.
  • Self explanatory reasons to take him for LD, hatred, etc...

Like you said, I've gotten much more mileage from the various army-helping morale/buff effects than the praetor's classic use as a blender. Especially the delegatus' "Thundercats, ho!" ability.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Dark Legionnare

[SkimaskMohawk]

31 minutes ago, Dark Legionnare said:

This is what I've come to find too in my couple games. Steering the praetor clear of terminators has become a necessity now, it feels like. (I'm a bit spoiled for durability though with the new Luna Wolves legion rules meaning I'm not getting ID'd by fists, hammers, etc.... in INF vs INF fights on the first round.)

So much so that I've ended up usually having my 2-3 HQ's be:

• (Basically in every game) Delegatus in Cataphractii w/chainfist and combi (the calth lad)
  • has the morale affect, RoW unlocker, okay fighter...
• Champion w/Paragon for any paragon-slicing that needs to be had
  • Also has his "if he did a duel, you're fearless" effect
• Chaplain w/various gear.
  • Self explanatory reasons to take him for LD, hatred, etc...

Like you said, I've gotten much more mileage from the various army-helping morale/buff effects than the praetor's classic use as a blender. Especially the delegatus' "Thundercats, ho!" ability.

 

The delegatus really shines by both unlocking MoftL and having the undo to hit for pinning (which everyone seems to realize is a necessity by this point lol). Command squads being part of the MotL unlock is basically the cherry on top. The Herald is also similar in ease of use. Fearless, ld 10 aura, scoring, and fear; more options for mobility; no drawback for dying; removed support.

 

The real question is why would you ever take a generic praetor over any of the consuls/special characters.

 

[Pearson73]

I've been considering an Iron Father in Cataphractii armour for my Iron Hands, perhaps with lightning claws. Not exactly peak efficiency, but he'll be durable as hell and throw out quite a lot of attacks. On the other hand, I really enjoy building and painting up consuls, so going that route is also appealing!

[SlickSamos]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

The real question is why would you ever take a generic praetor over any of the consuls/special characters.

I think a good argument is that the Praetor is less likely to die than most others, denying your oppont VPs for killing your Warlord.  He has +1 WS, +1 W, +1 Ld and an improved Invulnerable Save.  (Depending on legion can be improved further)

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, SlickSamos said:

I think a good argument is that the Praetor is less likely to die than most others, denying your oppont VPs for killing your Warlord.  He has +1 WS, +1 W, +1 Ld and an improved Invulnerable Save.  (Depending on legion can be improved further)

 

Sure, but on the flip side the generic praetor needs to be in melee to get value at all, making it more likely for him to give up VPs.  Like if he's not fighting in combat, you just go with the delegatus for MotL; if you have a primarch you just take one of the excellent support consuls like a Herald, or librarian, or vigilator, or master of signal. 

[Icosiel]

For my Word Bearers, I like making my Praetor a spooky beatstick. I give him a Tainted power sword and have him cast A Dark and Terrible Power in a charge, which means he's wrecking a lot of house. Usually if someone accepts his challenge they're :cuss:ed, and if not then they lose a ton of their infantry.