WH40k game Vashtorr the Arkifane

[Urauloth]

4 hours ago, Brother Tyler said:

I'll be interested to learn about the encounter between the Arkifane and the Patriarchs of Ulixis (here) whenever that is published. They're an old Chapter, a Primogenitor named back in 2nd edition (in Codex: Ultramarines), but they don't have the plot armour of their predecessor, so things might not go well for them as the Arks of Omen campaign is revealed.

Well spotted - I'd assumed those were Iron Angels, but that's definitely the Ulixis heraldry.

[Skywrath]

3 hours ago, jaxom said:

Not quite effortless warp travel, something more valuable. Tchulcha was 1/3 of the “device” which the Old Ones used to create the Webway. It cores through dimensions (including the Warp, the dimensions below the Warp, and Time).

 

Ah, thanks for the correction :)

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Arkangilos said:

Is Khaine dead? Or did the birth of Slaanesh simply altar the actions of the God of Murder/War/Violence and the Eldar just tell themselves that their God was eaten because they don’t want to admit they worshipped Khorne the whole time?

 

Sorry, no "Truth is Out There" moment here.

 

Khaine was never dead. Khaine was shattered when Khorne fought Slaanesh for Khaine's essence, and Kaine's fragments came to rest in the Craftworlds.

 

Khaine, Isha, and Cegorach are the three surviving gods of the Eldar pantheon. The rest were consumed by Slaanesh.

[Arkangilos]

44 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Khaine, Isha, and Cegorach

Three gods, not counting Slaanesh… The God of Murder (with a bloody hand), the Goddess of “Life” that tends a garden and just so happens to be in Nurgle’s garden, and a laughing God that has a bunch of tomfoolery? HMMMMMMMM

[phandaal]

10 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

Three gods, not counting Slaanesh… The God of Murder (with a bloody hand), the Goddess of “Life” that tends a garden and just so happens to be in Nurgle’s garden, and a laughing God that has a bunch of tomfoolery? HMMMMMMMM

 

No

[Alby the Slayer]

2 hours ago, phandaal said:

Khaine, Isha, and Cegorach are the three surviving gods of the Eldar pantheon. The rest were consumed by Slaanesh.

 

Plus the soon to be born Ynnead .

[TrawlingCleaner]

17 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Call me conspiratorial, but I feel like the way this Vashtorr fella is being added into 40K, it's like the Chaos version of Cawl and we'll see some big changes coming.

 

40K Chaos could go anywhere, after all.

 

 

In universe, I think an interesting angle is that there's all the liklehood that Cawl's creation of the Primaris has actually empowered Vashtorr. We know from the snippets we have, Vashtorr is empowered by innovation and pushing the boundaries of the known which Cawl's work definitely fits into. I'd love to see a conversation between Vahstorr and Gman/Cawl with Vashtorr saying something to the effect of: "All of this ruin I've brought is in large part thanks to your kind donation". Maybe Primaris always were Heretical

As with other Chaos entities, the acts that empower them don't need to be dedicated to them. Just the act itself is enough

 

Out of universe, I think/hope Vashtorr is the vehicle (for the creepier tech-daemon side of Chaos to come out, as Cawl was for quite a few Imperial things. Whether it's Dark Mechanicus or just down-right creepier Chaos units, I'm down

 

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

I feel like Vashtorr is a wannabe Kelbor-Hal, chaos's actual "cawl" counterpart. Dude was made up on the spot. Sweet looking model though.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Xenos and heretics all.

[Sarvis]

59 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

 

 

In universe, I think an interesting angle is that there's all the liklehood that Cawl's creation of the Primaris has actually empowered Vashtorr. We know from the snippets we have, Vashtorr is empowered by innovation and pushing the boundaries of the known which Cawl's work definitely fits into. I'd love to see a conversation between Vahstorr and Gman/Cawl with Vashtorr saying something to the effect of: "All of this ruin I've brought is in large part thanks to your kind donation". Maybe Primaris always were Heretical

As with other Chaos entities, the acts that empower them don't need to be dedicated to them. Just the act itself is enough

 

Out of universe, I think/hope Vashtorr is the vehicle (for the creepier tech-daemon side of Chaos to come out, as Cawl was for quite a few Imperial things. Whether it's Dark Mechanicus or just down-right creepier Chaos units, I'm down

 

 

Agreed. And to add, if GW doesn’t release a True Mechanicum range within the next two years, with Vashtorr as their centerpiece, I’d be very surprised.

[Cyrox]

9 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I feel like Vashtorr is a wannabe Kelbor-Hal, chaos's actual "cawl" counterpart. Dude was made up on the spot. Sweet looking model though.

 

Wait a minute, what if... Cawl is Vashtorr?!  Vashtorr is Cawl!?

 

FINKLE IS EINHORN??!

 

On a serious note though, can't wait to see where they go with Vashtorr and the potential setting up of a new major 'baddie' and possibly an army to go along with it.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Cyrox

[TheMawr]

In-universe it would be ridiculous if cawl or any imperial entity has any influence on vashtorrs rise ( even though I wont be suprised GW or at least warhammer community will lean this way.) since what he is doing is in-universe is like spending 10000 years putting extra drawers on an ikea closet, his peers are in awe and shock as their dogma doesnt allow them to look past the ikea closet's main instructions, but here we have the (in their eyes) super inventive cawl who just did that. In the same timespan alien entities (more of it offscreen) have created closets from scratch, Orks turned the ikea closets into bazookas that shoot tanks, Jokaero created closets that can build their own mini closets that can teleport around, Kin made closets that can actually tell you what is inside and calculate the essence of 42, Haemonculi created closets that are actually inside another dimension, and tau went from nothing to building the machines that build the closets.

But yeah, the god of closets is most inspired by that one event were someone put a drawer on an ikea closet. But that closet is painted blue.. thats the trick.

 

As for a new army, Im very sure Dark mechanicum comes eventually... but you never know.. they might say that you cant use Vashtorr in a dark mechanicum army, despite that one guy having his symbol even... it still stings >_<

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

4 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I feel like Vashtorr is a wannabe Kelbor-Hal, chaos's actual "cawl" counterpart. Dude was made up on the spot. Sweet looking model though.

There's a minor precedent for him. In slaves to darkness Perturabo recovers and works with a deamon who tells him he's unaligned and the "deamon of weapons". I'm wondering if him and Vashtorr made a contract that let Perturabo ascend without tying him to any gods. 

 

 

It actually fills a major plot question of: how did Perty of all people who hate and even denies the gods ascend to deamon prince?

 

Vashtorr could have built him what he needed in exchange for setting him up a forgeworld to kick start his growth after being rescued. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

10 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

In-universe it would be ridiculous if cawl or any imperial entity has any influence on vashtorrs rise ( even though I wont be suprised GW or at least warhammer community will lean this way.) since what he is doing is in-universe is like spending 10000 years putting extra drawers on an ikea closet, his peers are in awe and shock as their dogma doesnt allow them to look past the ikea closet's main instructions, but here we have the (in their eyes) super inventive cawl who just did that. In the same timespan alien entities (more of it offscreen) have created closets from scratch, Orks turned the ikea closets into bazookas that shoot tanks, Jokaero created closets that can build their own mini closets that can teleport around, Kin made closets that can actually tell you what is inside and calculate the essence of 42, Haemonculi created closets that are actually inside another dimension, and tau went from nothing to building the machines that build the closets.

But yeah, the god of closets is most inspired by that one event were someone put a drawer on an ikea closet. But that closet is painted blue.. thats the trick.

 

As for a new army, Im very sure Dark mechanicum comes eventually... but you never know.. they might say that you cant use Vashtorr in a dark mechanicum army, despite that one guy having his symbol even... it still stings >_<

 

Out of Universe, I agree, the Primaris line didn't reinvent the wheel. It's largely Space marine+

In univerese, Cawl's Primaris line is a massive step in innovation in a stagnant Imperium and an extremely stagnant Adeptus Mechanicus Organisation. New armour marks, weapons, organs, vehicles and even going as far as (supposedly) making Chimeric geneseed and improvments to exsisting geneseed (BA). In universe, I would argue, that's very innovative of a society that is over-the-top levels of stagnant, which would power up Vashtorr.

Would it bring them up from relatively unknown Daemon to a demi-god like being? Probably not, but I'd definitely wager it powers Vashtorr the same as bloodshed powers Khorne etc

[Karhedron]

5 hours ago, Sarvis said:

Agreed. And to add, if GW doesn’t release a True Mechanicum range within the next two years, with Vashtorr as their centerpiece, I’d be very surprised.

 

I would like to think so but then I look at Ynnari. A very cool trio of models that ultimately led to nothing more than an awkward attempt to run Eldar soup.

[Bryan Blaire]

Given that GW employees involved with the lore have said things (paraphrasing here) that the Imperium itself feeds Chaos in all aspects, it’d be pretty hard to argue that something what Cawl brought to the table didn’t feed a portion of Chaos - if it wasn’t going to Vashtorr, the it may have been the obsession he seems to have to drive to the extremes of technology/recover things feeding Slaanesh, something like that.  That’s a background part to the whole story - the tragedy of the Imperium is always that it is contributing to it’s downfall in multiple ways, internally, externally, and through powering Chaos.

[Slave to Darkness]

On 1/30/2023 at 3:39 PM, Captain Idaho said:

Call me conspiratorial, but I feel like the way this Vashtorr fella is being added into 40K, it's like the Chaos version of Cawl and we'll see some big changes coming.

 

Yep, I cant make fun of Cawl for being a unheard of before plot advancing marysue anymore now that Chaos has one of their own.  Ignoring the lore though, I cant wait to get my hands on that mini. Gonna be interesting converting it to fit my armys 'Hellraiser' vibe. 

[Captain Idaho]

I genuinely think it's one of the best 40K miniatures GW has done, based purely on theme and evocative appeal. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I can’t wait to see his rules.

[WrathOfTheLion]

46 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I can’t wait to see his rules.

I wonder if we'll see him get something like Be'lakor has, with the ability to pull in some CSM to a Daemon force. Likely we'll just get him as a supreme commander though.

[MithrilForge]

He's a very well done model and I too would like to see his viability in a Chaos force... definitely like to get him and paint him up, probably one of the most creepiest fig's GW has done in a while (in a good way!) 

 

M.  

[Lexington]

On 1/31/2023 at 8:37 AM, Hellex_The_Thanatar said:

It actually fills a major plot question of: how did Perty of all people who hate and even denies the gods ascend to deamon prince?

 

A few years ago, I asked Gav Thorpe about this and his response was that they never actually thought that through.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Lexington

[TheMawr]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:01 PM, Bryan Blaire said:

Given that GW employees involved with the lore have said things (paraphrasing here) that the Imperium itself feeds Chaos in all aspects, it’d be pretty hard to argue that something what Cawl brought to the table didn’t feed a portion of Chaos - if it wasn’t going to Vashtorr, the it may have been the obsession he seems to have to drive to the extremes of technology/recover things feeding Slaanesh, something like that.  That’s a background part to the whole story - the tragedy of the Imperium is always that it is contributing to it’s downfall in multiple ways, internally, externally, and through powering Chaos.

 

I think my remark wasnt really clear, naturally Im not saying the imperium doest/shouldnt feed chaos in general, and Im not even saying that cawl/mechanicus shouldnt have (significance) influence on vashtorrs rise... what Im saying is that in-universe their "innovative" actions really shouldnt be used as the main kickstart of him. As in the grand scheme of things their innovations are nothing. I should have elaborated beyond that though as the key here is I see their innovative  actions as not significant enough, but I believe in general GW should focus a little more on the psyche side when it comes to chaos.

 

In my own headcanon not only drukhari, but also asuryani unknowingly still actively feed slaanesh, however the latter do it trough hardcore selfdenial, they may not pursue lust,excess or desire.. but they still shape their life around it, they still give power and control to those concepts. However if it was insignificant for them, just some small feature of life that exists.. it doesnt have power, and it doesnt has the potential to become a god.

.. similarily I can really see (it would fit perfectly) the Imperium as one of the most significant feeders of Vashtorr.. IF it is explained that he is empowered by the significance they give to the concept of innovation... for most of the imperium that is the fear and control they exert over it by agressively avoiding it. For Cawl (and hereteks) it would be that its the main focus of his very being.. despite the actual innovations being neglecable in the (in universe) grander scheme of things. I dont see Jokaero or Orks feeding vashtorr, because for them innovating is natural, not something they give much power to, despite being much more active with it.

 

I hope it makes any sense, more philosophical matters are a little harder for me in english ;)

[Bryan Blaire]

8 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

As in the grand scheme of things their innovations are nothing.

In the grand scheme of the immortal and infinite immaterium of Chaos and the Warp, all events are effectively nothing - it’s the cumulative building of all of them together that gives power.

 

It doesn’t matter if GW highlights the Cawlification of the Marines and any other portions of the Imperial war machine, it builds up Vashtorr’s power base in some form.  Given that GW has talked about Vashtorr as a “Demi-God” of Chaos, I doubt that he’s just come into power - but that doesn’t mean much for daemons - they go forward, and they go back.  He’s master of the Soul Forge, it’s unlikely that he’s a brand new master of it, not sure that I think from what GW has written so far that the character is supposed to be “new on the block”, just that he’s new to us.  He’s yet another “likely always been there, but never talked about” type personage for their “story” in the setting.

[Xenith]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:37 PM, Hellex_The_Thanatar said:

how did Perty of all people who hate and even denies the gods ascend to deamon prince?

 

The Chaos gods have a sense of Irony. It's well documented that you don't have to believe in, or worship them, to be blessed by them. That said, apparently Abby could have ascended several times over, but he chose not to, so Perty must have felt a sudden change coming on and submitted to it.