Dark Angels Range Update Speculation

[WrathOfTheLion]

Hello all,

 

In a similar vein to the generic speculation thread here, alongside the rumors we have of Lion El'Jonson, the confirmation of Azrael, etc., I figured it'd be fun to speculate what we think might come kit-wise.

 

The rumored kits we have of course are a good place to start

• Azrael (confirmed)
• Lion El'Jonson
• Lion's Guard (bodyguard unit)

 

I have a few thoughts on what they might do. I think an Interrogator-Chaplain is an obvious hole to fill, and would be a welcome addition. Given some recent cavalry character kits (Lord Invocatus/Chaos Lord on Juggernaut, Aeternus/Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount for AoS), I'm thinking a Ravenwing bike Lieutenant/Captain/whatever kit sounds like a likely model kit they would do given recent trends. It would build the Lieutenant, and then up to the Captain with more ornate options.

 

An obvious one is a new decal sheet. We don't have the Deathwing markings for Bladeguard veterans in the general release one, so that's going to have to make its way in at some point.

 

Character-wise, the entire lineup besides Azrael and Lazarus are metal or finecast, so I'd figure they're all likely possibilities.

 

So what do you think might come out?

Edited January 21, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Cpt_Reaper]

If, and this is a big if, GW wants to introduce Chapter specific characters to Primaris lines going forward, I can absolutely see Sammael getting a Primaris upgrade with the following options:

• Sammael, Grand Master of the Ravenwing
• Primaris Ravenwing Talonmaster
• Primaris Master on Jetbike

GW have surely seen the hundreds of Talonmaster conversion using the Custodes jetbikes. Making a single kit that can make Sam, a LT or a Successor Master would just make sense. It also allows Successors to have a Master of the Ravenwing that gets a jetbike and not just a regular bike, as was alluded to in codexes past.

[WrathOfTheLion]

6 hours ago, Cpt_Reaper said:

If, and this is a big if, GW wants to introduce Chapter specific characters to Primaris lines going forward, I can absolutely see Sammael getting a Primaris upgrade with the following options:

• Sammael, Grand Master of the Ravenwing
• Primaris Ravenwing Talonmaster
• Primaris Master on Jetbike

GW have surely seen the hundreds of Talonmaster conversion using the Custodes jetbikes. Making a single kit that can make Sam, a LT or a Successor Master would just make sense. It also allows Successors to have a Master of the Ravenwing that gets a jetbike and not just a regular bike, as was alluded to in codexes past.

I think chapter-specific characters are already there. For generic characters, there's the Black Templar Castellan, which I think is his own datasheet. We obviously have all sorts of named characters.

 

That kit I think makes total sense. As I mention at the beginning, they've done exactly something like that for at least two mounted characters recently.

Edited January 21, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[aura_enchanted]

ezekiel is really really low hanging fuit

and im thinking they might refresh company veterans, letting it be a stepping stool to give us primaris veterans

[WrathOfTheLion]

In some of the newer artwork, there's some Deathwing stuff that's new on the left side of this image. The Terminator armor looks slightly different than normal, and the banner/sword loadout doesn't exist in any current model, so I'm wondering whether this will end up as a new kit at some point.

 

[FarFromSam]

What about the TDA looks different?   I'm a big fan of banner bearers.  I hope you're right! Also, some help azzy out on how to hold that new ugly bolter please.

[WrathOfTheLion]

6 minutes ago, farfromsam said:

What about the TDA looks different?   I'm a big fan of banner bearers.  I hope you're right! Also, some help azzy out on how to hold that new ugly bolter please.

Not really a whole lot, it's quite subtle. To me, it looks like the Deathwing symbol is on the left side, not the right, the vambrace on the left arm is the most strikingly different piece, and the back looks more like there's an iron halo sort of piece, and that it may be less square over their head.

[FarFromSam]

I think you may be right about the shoulder swap.  I took the iron halo-esque silhouette as this guy's top.  Maybe all and all just artist taking liberties?

Edited January 30, 2023 by farfromsam

[WrathOfTheLion]

23 minutes ago, farfromsam said:

I think you may be right about the shoulder swap.  I took the iron halo-esque silhouette as this guy's top.  Maybe all and all just artist taking liberties?

 

Could very well be, although we won't know for quite a while.

[phandaal]

Looks like standard Terminator armor with better proportions, a non-standard loadout, and Deathwing Knight styling. Would be awesome to see as an actual model.

[exsulis81]

What does everyone think about the rumored the Lion Guard unit.  I feel like we've got a lot of terminators,  which would make me feel like we're going to get Artificer/command squad.

[FarFromSam]

I'd be interested in bladeguard vet esque body guard command squad.   In the same vein as as the 30k cenobites big ass sword, combat shield with tucked in plasma weapon.  

[The Angel]

What I’m really hoping for is just some robed veteran marines. 

[Harleqvin]

I'm saying primaris in quotations from here on out as some big rumors are that they are getting rid of the distinction between 1stborn and primaris for 10th ed. New SM models will be "primaris" upscaled I feel (and will have the treatment of BT for the models that can be used for 1stborn or Primaris. Meaning stuff like armor may be "older" styled, and Powerpacks not having the extra bumps on the top of the vent ports on the side. Which they have done with the Castellan and the Bayard's Revenge models.) Along with that, I know there's been rumors about upscaled Indomitus TDA. @Chapter Master Valrak has been talking about that distinction going away and the TDA from sources he trusts (so we will see about that.)

 

I'm sure they'll make a "Primaris" Int-Chap on bike in 10th eventually. It's needed. Along with an unmounted "Primaris" Int-Chap.

Although, a Plain Libby on bike would be great, as that's something needed, too (but that's not really DA specific...)

 

A Int-Chap in TDA (obviously Upscaled. Also I still can't believe they never fixed the screw up with the basic Chaplain in TDA getting Deathwing in C:SM...)

 

Our own "Primaris"ed Vet Squad {Like the Sword Brethren for BT.)

I'm on the fence about a DA lieutenant on (jet)bike as I would get annoyed by another model/unit being removed, meaning Talonmasters (Sableclaw which didn't even get put into Legends. Which Legends is a whole other issue. I won't go into that here, though.) However, I do like the idea of having a new Multiuse kit for MotR. Could make Sammy, generic MotR for successors, maybe make Talonmaster a new Jetbike unit taking place of the landspeeder version (which I have reservations on that I mentioned above, but could be neat being able to have 3 special guys on Jetbikes,) as it has been mentioned about how many people have been using the Custodes jetbikes to make converted up Sammy, and Talonmasters.

Could also make it go along with being able to make a Libby on Jetbike, and Int-Chap on jet bike (those two options would be different head and powerpack topper, and melee option. This idea stemming from the new Esoterist model where the powerpack has the psychic hood on it, and not the armor itself, which would be an easy add-on piece for a powerpack...,) that way we could have all main type HQ on Jetbikes for Ravenwing. I would possibly be annoyed though for others as I'm sure it would be a little expensive (a little more than the WE Lord on Jugg,) as most would have to buy it multiple times to get them all, personally I would just convert the heck out of some Custodes jetbikes ;{D>

Yeah. A DA jetbike kit that you could make one of the following five:

~Sammael

~Generic MotR (for successors, and/or your own personal, MotR.)

~New Talonmaster (which I have reservations on, but admit would be cool.)

~Librarian.

~Interrogator-Chaplain.

So, a kit that could make 5 different models wouldn't be crazy. Just really one set of legs (would be robes/tabbard,) maybe a few different front torso options, several different heads/helmets, maybe several different greave plates (MotR, Lt, Libby, Int-Chap,) some shoulder pads, a powerpack add-on, and a few different melee weapon options. It would be a pretty easily feasible kit for them to make.

 

The Lion Guard? I think would be a special type Bladeguard unit (like a 40k version of Deathwing Companions,) as I don't think they'd make a special TDA squad just for that (even though I would like that more.)

 

I feel there will be a "Primaris"ed Ezekiel, but not Asmodai (so if they made a new plastic model for him it would have some old mark looking armor with no bumps on the top of the vent ports.) Asmodai to me feels more like he wouldn't want to go through to become "Primaris", but Sapphael would.

So a "Primaris"ed Sapphael (maybe a dual kit that can make a "Primaris"ed Int-Chap or Sapphael. Like what they did for Lazarus kit being able to make a generic Master, too.)

Maybe a new Belial (Upscaled. saying because of the mentioned rumors at the beginning of my reply. And could work for DA generic, or successor, MotD.) I'd like for the alternate weapon options to come back (and I am really not a fan of the current model. His feet feel oddly positioned, and his pose really more feels like it's an "I give up" pose. Also again about the weapon options, I feel it was REALLY dumb they removed them when it was the easiest kitbash to give him those from the Deathwing Termies/Command/Knights box as we all bought more than one of them..., but Games Workshop kept SM Scout sergeants with option of Thunder Hammer even though there has never been a scout model with a thunder hammer...)

 

 

All this talk is making want to make more conversions, and I have soooo many still to do that I haven't worked on in a while, and Renaissance Faire season is about to start which means a couple months on the road straight with no proper work space...

[aura_enchanted]

i think they will take the talonmaster and move it to an upgrade for the new primaris speeders, and away from classic speeders. basically force primaris on the ravenwing players wether they wanted it or not (which is funny because we have the invader and outriders and their both trash cause you cant abuse one and normal marines continue to devastate them in the value department).

 

a proper veteran intercessor kit maybe with an improved upgrade kit for robed to slap onto the existing primaris frames in a very ugly and awkward way

more gravis garbadge

ezekiel moving to plastic primaris from pewter is a dead easy one to pick out of the crowd

a dramatically downscaled fortress of redemption maybe? similar in concept but not 50 feet long and incompatible with terrain features

primaris interrogator chaplain probable but not a done deal

new deathwing? if the starter box is true its probably already covered
 

[WrathOfTheLion]

This is one that's not necessarily a kit on its own, but there's got to be a new transfer sheet coming. In Indomitus, it has the decals needed for Bladeguard Veterans, but that's not available in our general kits. So there's got to be a new transfer sheet, especially as that one will go out of production when the edition flips.

 

They've also changed over to more like a 'khorne red' for the decals, less of a 'mephiston red' kind of color on those ones.

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, aura_enchanted said:

i think they will take the talonmaster and move it to an upgrade for the new primaris speeders, and away from classic speeders. basically force primaris on the ravenwing players wether they wanted it or not (which is funny because we have the invader and outriders and their both trash cause you cant abuse one and normal marines continue to devastate them in the value department).

 

a proper veteran intercessor kit maybe with an improved upgrade kit for robed to slap onto the existing primaris frames in a very ugly and awkward way

more gravis garbadge

ezekiel moving to plastic primaris from pewter is a dead easy one to pick out of the crowd

a dramatically downscaled fortress of redemption maybe? similar in concept but not 50 feet long and incompatible with terrain features

primaris interrogator chaplain probable but not a done deal

new deathwing? if the starter box is true its probably already covered
 

Let we forget, we're still missing the fluff of why the DA are going to suddenly accept all these Primaris.  I'm not even sure we got any fluff for Azrael crossing the Rubicon.   That'll help, but he was DA first, Primaris after.   From the rumors I've heard Azrael is going to do the Devastation of Baal thing, and call back all the chapters to reform the Legion in all but name.  Which would be a good time for Bobby G to show up, deliver some more Primaris he was keeping in reserve because the Unforgiven didn't want them anyway.  This would also be a good time for him to give Azrael a wink and a nod about the origins of "The Unforgiven" just as the Lion wakes up, and ends any shred of suspicion regarding the Primaris.  From there the Ravenwing just needs Outriders to switch from 3 and only 3 to 3-5 or 3-10.   Most of those 3-3 units are hamstrung by being 3-3 not their (other) rules/stats/etc. 

[Harleqvin]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:55 PM, Tacitus said:

Let we forget, we're still missing the fluff of why the DA are going to suddenly accept all these Primaris.  I'm not even sure we got any fluff for Azrael crossing the Rubicon.   That'll help, but he was DA first, Primaris after.   From the rumors I've heard Azrael is going to do the Devastation of Baal thing, and call back all the chapters to reform the Legion in all but name.  Which would be a good time for Bobby G to show up, deliver some more Primaris he was keeping in reserve because the Unforgiven didn't want them anyway.  This would also be a good time for him to give Azrael a wink and a nod about the origins of "The Unforgiven" just as the Lion wakes up, and ends any shred of suspicion regarding the Primaris.  From there the Ravenwing just needs Outriders to switch from 3 and only 3 to 3-5 or 3-10.   Most of those 3-3 units are hamstrung by being 3-3 not their (other) rules/stats/etc. 

It's kinda already there, though. I mean, The lore already talks about how they are being slowly accepted, as more become trusted through their deeds, and then those that who "die" to become Primaris (if you look at what has been shown for others that have gone through the Rubicon to become Primaris they essentially have to die first. lqtm,) and then we already know that Azzy has gone through it (the why we don't know,) which that should cement further for so many more to accept them or cross over. And there will be those who will refuse to cross over, and all we will have for when that happens is a model that is upscaled (for when they get a new model. My thoughts for Asmodail,) and will not have the extra knee gorget or the bumps on the vent ports of the power pack (like how two of the BT models are for people that want to use it to represent 1stborn.)
DA accepted the delivery of all the ones Bobby G sent. That was one of the big things from 8th was that the DA accepted them into the ranks (but didn't trust them,) because refusing them would have led to inquiry as to why the DA would be refusing...

I don't get the "nod about about the origins of the Unforgiven" when Bobby G hasn't shown any knowledge of why the DA call themselves the Unforgiven... Only thing that was ever shown was that Bobby G knows the Sword that Cypher had.

 

A lot of the units that are 3 only are hurt by the fact they are limited to that.

It'd be neat if they allowed Outriders to be like normal bike unit and allow 3-8 of them with an ATV (make them like 1stborn bike squad.)

Edited February 10, 2023 by Harleqvin

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, Harleqvin said:

 

I don't get the "nod about about the origins of the Unforgiven" when Bobby G hasn't shown any knowledge of why the DA call themselves the Unforgiven...

They're all supposed to be Supermen, especially in their particular area.  In Bobby G's case that's BatReps, Grand Strategy, Logistics type stuff.  There's no shortage of strange behavior from the Dark Angels - like the Ravenwing going bonkers on Vigilus while working with Calgar - for him to have heard about and put two and Cipher in Black Not Green DA armor carrying the Lion Sword together.  I'd bet he knows, but the Primarchs keep their brother's secrets.  Horus knew about the Red Thirst and kept the secret.  The same hints Bobby G would get about the Unforgiven would tell him where the DA loyalties lie so he'd keep the secret. 

[Karhedron]

I agree. Guilliman puts up with a lot of guff from the church which he doesn't like because he knows he needs to keep the Imperium united. Even with his return and the Primaris reinforcements, the Imperium is just barely clinging on following the opening of the Great Rift. The DAs may have their issues and I am sure Guilliman has his suspicions about the Unforgiven but as long as they toe the line, he can't afford to alienate a significant chunk of Chapters who trace their ancestry to Johnson.

[Harleqvin]

The issue at hand is there has been no evidence that he actually knows anything, or something to infer that he knows why the DA and gang call themselves The Unforgiven.
 

It's a bit easier to infer info about why Primaris are being accepted (as we know they are starting to be,) and why they would be more widely accepted (as we have knowledge that Azreal has crossed the Rubicon Primaris.)

Currently there isn't anything actually said hinting to give more speculation to Roboute actually knowing the "secret", and keeping it hidden.

[Tacitus]

Not a hint but I still think he knows.  I think there was a thing about the Vigilus thing making him curious, but I'm not 100% sure. 

[Karhedron]

Guilliman spent a considerable amount of time with Cypher on the way to Terra after his reawakening. We know he recognised the sword. We also know that Guilliman was not put into stasis until about a century after the fall of Caliban. So he runs into someone in old DA legion heraldry carrying his brother's sword 9000 years after he was reported MIA.

 

Guilliman may not know what went down on Caliban but he knows something big went down and Cypher is connected to it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you look at what Templars got…

 

Three special characters, including Emperor’s Champion

 

Generic Captain and Lieutenant

 

New troop

 

New elite

 

Prolly will be something along these lines.

[Harleqvin]

On 2/13/2023 at 10:51 AM, Tacitus said:

Not a hint but I still think he knows.  I think there was a thing about the Vigilus thing making him curious, but I'm not 100% sure. 

That was Marneus thatwas curious. Which he made a note about how they seemed to have left a Primaris guy in charge who didn't know much about some of the tactical reasons why they were doing what they did. but that they still did what was needed.

 

On 2/13/2023 at 12:20 PM, Karhedron said:

Guilliman spent a considerable amount of time with Cypher on the way to Terra after his reawakening. We know he recognised the sword. We also know that Guilliman was not put into stasis until about a century after the fall of Caliban. So he runs into someone in old DA legion heraldry carrying his brother's sword 9000 years after he was reported MIA.

 

Guilliman may not know what went down on Caliban but he knows something big went down and Cypher is connected to it.

It wasn't "considerable" amount of time. It was a rather short time. He knows about Cypher (not necessarily who exactly he is, or what he is doing obviously,) but that doesn't mean he knows about the Fallen. There is enough to infer he is aware something is up, but not exactly what that is that's up.
Also The DA have been known to have various colored armor, even back in the HH era.  Just because a small group of DA in Black armor showed up wouldn't exactly be completely strange to him.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Harleqvin