Horus Heresy Siege of Cthonia

[dickyelsdon]

So new core scenarios, wonder if these will just be reworked missions from the original black books, like the ones in the core rulebook?  mention in the article that they are objective focussed which could be good for the game to change peoples army lists.

 

FULL Zone Mortalis rules!  Very keen to see these.

[lansalt]

1 minute ago, matcap86 said:

I like the black book revamp, but am weary about the quality of lore writing. After the passing of Bligh the writing style turned very 40k in the last 2 black books, which was not great imho. We'll see I suppose.

The Adeptus Titanicus books, Exemplary Battles, and recent WD articles about the fall of Barbarus written under Andy Hoare seem decent, just a bit dry IMO.

[Astartes Consul]

1 hour ago, fire golem said:

Honestly I feel like they should have shown some models, or just saved this for a Thursday reveal. Very drowned out in this preview show. 

 

Tbf I think anything short of releasing a model of the Emperor would have been drowned out by 10th ed 40k, The Lion and Terminators?

43 minutes ago, AGRAMAR said:

 

Maybe, but why kitbash a miniature from another legion? Humm the pic is not clear enough but I think the design is not that old. I think can be something new.

Well, will see.

 

A lot of the artwork that uses pictures of models in the books uses kitbashing. If you flick through the army list in the Liber books and look at the background images, you'll notice quite a lot of small conversations and swaps.

 

50 minutes ago, Petitioner's City said:

For the naysayers, this is the return to how heresy actually developed in the black books - campaign books with rich fluff and small add on rules. This is fantastic, and what heresy should be about - and it's so vital they are returning to this model (which of course AH and Wylie were co-authors of). Don't understand how anyone can be disappointed by this 

 

Here is the video too

 

 

 

 

Nice little video - think it confirms that the new rules will be for general use, not just campaign specific. Som of the wording in the article suggested they might be tied to using them in the campaign.

 

Intrigued to see if Shattered Legion involvement means we'll get rules / a rite of war for them?

[Hfran Morkai]

Loyalist Thousand Sons? Interesting.

 

Despite being primarily a Sixth Legion collector I do have a soft spot for most Legions and Loyalist TS could be awesome. 

[Misterduch]

2 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

For the naysayers, this is the return to how heresy actually developed in the black books - campaign books with rich fluff and small add on rules. This is fantastic, and what heresy should be about - and it's so vital they are returning to this model (which of course AH and Wylie were co-authors of). Don't understand how anyone can be disappointed by this 

 

Here is the video too

 

 

 

 

I am happy we are getting these, but starting off with SoH and IF just annoys me.

 

They already have a ton of named characters besides their primarch in model from, the addition of new weapons doesn't help when IF don't exactly lack in that department with Vigil shields, Assault cannons, Solarite gauntlets and Teleport  strike while other legions only get a single weapon and no characters other than their primarch *shrug*

 

Atleast if they did shattered legions here aswell besides seemingly just being a background group it would have helped with Salamanders and Raven guard both being lackluster in terms of named characters, but the way it is written it seems like only SoH and IF will get anything beyond the basic inductii

Edited March 23, 2023 by Misterduch

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

For the naysayers, this is the return to how heresy actually developed in the black books - campaign books with rich fluff and small add on rules. This is fantastic, and what heresy should be about - and it's so vital they are returning to this model (which of course AH and Wylie were co-authors of). Don't understand how anyone can be disappointed by this 

 

Here is the video too

 

 

 

 

More like people don't think those legions need more support in terms of characters or focus.

 

Fists have 3 special characters with models (one being plastic), 2 special units with models, 3 rites, and some of the most impactful and widespread wargear. And their primarch. They got a hugely versatile playstyle with lots of list building options 

 

Soh also have 3 special characters, 2 special units with models, and 2 versions of their primarch. Their rites can lead to very versatile builds as well.

 

Meanwhile some legions don't have any models for their special characters, and are pigeon holed into very specific builds (like salamanders). 

 

 

[TheMalius]

Do we reckon that's the rumoured plastic knight on the cover?

 

I don't know the FW kit well enough to spot any differences that might indicate plastic.

[Lord Marshal]

Inductii are a bit of a surprise, but I guess it's a way of getting a few people still grumbling over MKVI to use it - since presumably the lore will be that as late-Heresy recruits they're almost all wearing it.

 

If I had to guess why SoH/IF are the focus of this when other Legions are lacking characters, it's because they're the poster boys this edition and they want to strike the impulse buys while the iron is hot. Then again, they did specifically mention Shattered Legions as featuring, so maybe they'll get something afterall, but maybe not.

 

Getting the full Zone Mortalis rules is expected, but nice to see nonetheless. 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[derLumpi]

54 minutes ago, TheMalius said:

Do we reckon that's the rumoured plastic knight on the cover?

 

I don't know the FW kit well enough to spot any differences that might indicate plastic.

Hard to say. The plastic kits they released are pretty close to the resin ones. Just checked the FW website since I'm at work but the Lancer looks the same.

[Lord Marshal]

9 hours ago, Brother_Angelus said:

Very keen for more core scenarios. Also a new consul mentioned as well. Deco-something.

 

Decurions were Roman cavalry officers, so I'm guessing they'll end up being the rumoured Tank Commanders.

 

Edit: I missed that the WarCom article confirmed it. Derp.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[bushman101]

Neat.

It will be nice to see the 'black books' again. 

[DukeLeto69]

Haven’t played any TT for 20 years but still buy the books for the lore. I have the first seven HH Black Books in the hardback format then missed out on books 8 and 9.

 

Anyone know how these new HH2.0 “Black Books” will fit in with the old books in terms of timeline and lore etc?

[Matcap86]

@DukeLeto69

In the novels It's shown that the siege of Chtonia is kind of mid-to late heresy. The heresy is in full swing but Beta-Garmon hasn't happened yet iirc.

Edited March 23, 2023 by matcap86

[Petitioner's City]

3 minutes ago, DukeLeto69 said:

Haven’t played any TT for 20 years but still buy the books for the lore. I have the first seven HH Black Books in the hardback format then missed out on books 8 and 9.

 

Anyone know how these new HH2.0 “Black Books” will fit in with the old books in terms of timeline and lore etc?

 

You might want to check out Tymell's brilliant chronology - https://sites.google.com/site/tymellsheresy/horus-heresy-timeline-notes-potential-spoilers. As the new book is the Siege of Cthonia, it is the same time as the anthology. The siege lasted from 006 to 014, but the novella seems to be the same period as (or close to) the Siege. Andy talks about the fleet of SoHs peeling off from the Push to Terra, and arguably this must have occurred after Beta Garmon (with the main battle there occurring 012-013).

[Petitioner's City]

3 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

@DukeLeto69

In the novels It's shown that the siege of Chtonia is kind of mid-to late heresy. The heresy is in full swing but Beta-Garmon hasn't happened yet iirc.

 

In Cthonia's Reckoning, the lead SoH (the main SoH character in the supplement) thinks in "Traitor's Faith":

 

Quote

The loyalists trying to hold Traitor’s Gate, maybe they get it. The Sons of Horus prowling down the spires – they certainly do. Captain Ashurhaddon could have joined the Warmaster at Terra. Instead he brought his forces here, to make a point. The same point, Kovarny thinks, the loyalists want to make by resisting.

 

This does suggest (as Tymell places it) that it is at the same time as the Solar War/Siege of Terra.

[Matcap86]

11 minutes ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

In Cthonia's Reckoning, the lead SoH (the main SoH character in the supplement) thinks in "Traitor's Faith":

 

 

This does suggest (as Tymell places it) that it is at the same time as the Solar War/Siege of Terra.

 

Might be, but those kinds of statements are also seen by other traitor forces in other novels, sometimes referring more to joining the push towards Terra and (eventually) the siege or pursuing their own objectives. Not necessarily that it's happening at that exact moment concurrently.

 

I also don't agree with Tymell's point that a SoH saying he could have joined the push towards Terra means the siege is happening concurrently, but he handwaves an imperial fist saying he's been fighting on Chtonia for 7 years so far.

 

The different stories also span quite a bit of time, from initial invasion until "endgame" by

Spoiler

The dreadwing.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by matcap86

[lansalt]

If the SoH that retook Cthonia from the IF were a splinter fleet, why Horus appears finishing the IF praetor on the HH trailer? Isn't Ashurhaddon supposed to be the SoH axe praetor from the box set?

[No Foes Remain]

9 minutes ago, lansalt said:

If the SoH that retook Cthonia from the IF were a splinter fleet, why Horus appears finishing the IF praetor on the HH trailer? Isn't Ashurhaddon supposed to be the SoH axe praetor from the box set?

I thought that Andy said in the video that the IF and SoH named characters will be getting models to go along with the release?

[Petitioner's City]

31 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

 

Might be, but those kinds of statements are also seen by other traitor forces in other novels, sometimes referring more to joining the push towards Terra and (eventually) the siege or pursuing their own objectives. Not necessarily that it's happening at that exact moment concurrently.

 

I also don't agree with Tymell's point that a SoH saying he could have joined the push towards Terra means the siege is happening concurrently, but he handwaves an imperial fist saying he's been fighting on Chtonia for 7 years so far.

 

The different stories also span quite a bit of time, from initial invasion until "endgame" by

  Reveal hidden contents

The dreadwing.

 

 

But the SoH says he could be "at" Terra, not on the way to it.

 

Quote

Captain Ashurhaddon could have joined the Warmaster at Terra. Instead he brought his forces here, to make a point.

 

The opening story is also the one with the inductii, not the start of the invasion - the planet has been blockaded and occupied for years by that point. Then you have the arrival of Ashurhaddon's fleet in the second story, which correlates with that time reference in Traitor's Faith above.

 

But I get what you mean about seven years (in Gav's story); I guess it does depend when the blockade begins, either in 006 (immediately after istvaan v) or in 007 (before or after phall). That either means 013 or 014 for that story.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Petitioner's City

[lansalt]

15 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

I thought that Andy said in the video that the IF and SoH named characters will be getting models to go along with the release?

Who were then the praetors in the AoD box set? It's odd to feature them so heavily in marketing and illustrations, and to not give them a name. Both characters from the Betrayal at Calth box got their own fluff and even BL books.

[Matcap86]

17 minutes ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

But the SoH says he could be "at" Terra, not on the way to it.

 

 

The opening story is also the one with the inductii, not the start of the invasion - the planet has been blockaded and occupied for years by that point. Then you have the arrival of Ashurhaddon's fleet in the second story, which correlates with that time reference in Traitor's Faith above 

 

I mean now we're just arguing semantics. He's not saying he could be at Terra, he's saying he could join his forces with Horus at Terra.

 

Meeting someone at a place doesn't mean that either party is right there right now. It can mean Horus is already at Terra, but it could also mean the timetable was thus that he had to make a choice: invade Cthonia or push on and be able to time their arrival at Terra with Horus' invasion. Which, as we don't know his previous stop or the amount of travel it takes from Chtonia to Terra opens the potential window quite a bit. Though still more late heresy than mid heresy, I agree. 

 

On another point: No Heresy Thursday today? I had hope they'd show some models today. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by matcap86

[No Foes Remain]

10 minutes ago, lansalt said:

Who were then the praetors in the AoD box set? It's odd to feature them so heavily in marketing and illustrations, and to not give them a name. Both characters from the Betrayal at Calth box got their own fluff and even BL books.

I was under the assumption that they were the characters in the Cthonia's Reckoning book that came out at the same time due to the cover art, not read it myself since it didn't get the best reviews.

[lansalt]

9 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

I was under the assumption that they were the characters in the Cthonia's Reckoning book that came out at the same time due to the cover art, not read it myself since it didn't get the best reviews.

Sadly they don't actually appear in the stories of that collection. Ashurhaddon is just name dropped as the SoH commander, but nothing more.

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Reading the article a bit more closely, I was a little confused by the decurion commanders. You can already get an HQ tank commander from armoured spearhead, but I guess they're making these more like the solar aux ones? Maybe just being BS upgrade or the old squadron command tank upgrade?

 

The mission is almost as bad as the goonhammer ones for the same reason; progressive scoring in a framework thats all about preventing scoring. Easy to snowball; easy to game.

[bushman101]

Just curious, what's the background on Inductii (other than being the new recruits)?

 

I know I have seen the name before, but can't find it