WH40k game Lion El'Johnson - Primarch of the Dark Angels

[Orange Knight]

Some very interesting Primarch discussions.

 

I think now that the Lion is back it's basically a guarantee that we'll see more loyalists in the future, although it could be another 3-5 year wait before we do.

 

The next to return should definitely be Leman Russ. The remaining big 3 loyalists of the setting are Guilliman, The Lion and Russ. I would personally love to see Rogal Dorn return but I don't think he'll be high on the agenda.

 

Sanguinius is obviously the most iconic. I think he rounds out the loyalists the best as he's the most distinctive from RG, Lion and Russ. The 4 of them would be an interesting mirror for the 4 main traitors in the setting, those being Magnus, Mortarion, Angron and Fulgrim. I really don't think GW should mess with this particular death, however. The Black Rage is a shockwave on the psyche of the Blood Angels caused by the death of Sanguinius. His sacrifice against Horus is a pivotal point in the history of 40k.

 

The farthest they could go here in my opinion would be a warp reflection of Sangunius and a model of the Sanguinor to stand in, but not a flesh and blood resurrection.

 

Edit: 

 

@Interrogator Stobz

 

Apologies, I was writing all that out before your nudge!

Edited March 24, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Kastor Krieg]

6 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

1. Horus - Dead, gone.

2. Magnus - Back.

3. Angron - Back.

4. Mort - Back.

5. Fulgrim - Potential.

6. Lorgar - Potential.

7. Pert - Potential

8. Konrad - Dead, gone.

9. Alpharius/Omegon - Potential.

 

Dead - 2

Back - 3

Potential - 4

 

1.  Ferrus - Dead, gone. No, I will not accept a Legion of the Damned Primarch (though I really do miss those models...)

2. Sang - Dead, gone.

3. Lion - Back.

4. Khan - Potential.

5. Russ - Potential.

6. Dorn - Dead? Was this retconned? He WAS dead.

7. Rob - Back.

8. Vulkan - Potential. (VULKAN LIVES, worst arc of the HH...)

9. Corax - Potential.

 

Dead - 3

Back - 2

Potential - 4

 

"But Scribe, it doesnt balance out!"

 

We all know, that in some age that is cursed and damned, for the 20th edition of the game, the Emperor will see a plastic release. So there you have it. :p

CLONEGRIM! CLONEGRIM! CLONEGRIM!

EVER LOYAL CLONEGRIM FOR THE IMPERIUM AND HIM ON THE GOLDEN THRONE!

[Burni]

23 minutes ago, lansalt said:

I don't think the game will ever have more than a third loyalist primarch back: Russ.

Not for any narrative reason, but simply because the main 5 classic space marine factions (UM/BA/DA/SW/BT) would be fully updated and the rest aren't popular enough from a sales point of view.

After reading the Siege of Terra series, I've become such a fan of Dorn (and I bet many othes have also). So I kinda hope he comes back in some form? If only painting yellow in wasn't such a pain (I find contrast too unpredictable and hard to produce repeatable, consistent results. It's also no good for vehicles imho).

[lansalt]

5 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

CLONEGRIM!

 

Daemon Fulgrim vs. Loyalist Clonegrim in 10th or 11th edition would make a lot of sense commercially IMO. It would also make 40k more distinct and avoid being a repetition of 30k.

[Borbarad]

Great miniature; but I do think the two watchers and that statue at his feet are quite distracting 

[sarabando]

57 minutes ago, lansalt said:

 

Daemon Fulgrim vs. Loyalist Clonegrim in 10th or 11th edition would make a lot of sense commercially IMO. It would also make 40k more distinct and avoid being a repetition of 30k.

i want this with all my heart. 

 

 

ON topic, i like the mini, i like that he has aged, i like that he has a shield it shows that hes not as brash an young any more he has to think about defense now not just space murder. 

 

my favorite head is the hooded helm head and may pick him up for a painting project. 

 

Was the lion at Terra ?

 

I hope we get some good fluff for the DA going forward i cant see the lion being too happy about his legion being broken up. 

[Karhedron]

I really like the Lion (and I say that as a BA and SW player). It perfectly captures the essence of the character and the magnificence I feel a Primarch should have.

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say the face is the only part I don't like. He has been asleep since the Heresy so why does he look so much older than his FW version? He looks a bit too like Tywin Lannister to me. I prefer either the winged helmet head or the cloaked face version to hide his receding hairline. 

 

However we don't know what the fluff surrounding his reawakening is yet. If it turns out he has secretly been up and about for a while then maybe his more mature appearance makes sense.

[lansalt]

Because he was sleeping, not in stasis like Guilliman.

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

2 hours ago, sarabando said:

i want this with all my heart. 

 

 

ON topic, i like the mini, i like that he has aged, i like that he has a shield it shows that hes not as brash an young any more he has to think about defense now not just space murder. 

 

my favorite head is the hooded helm head and may pick him up for a painting project. 

 

Was the lion at Terra ?

 

I hope we get some good fluff for the DA going forward i cant see the lion being too happy about his legion being broken up. 

He might generally approve of how his Legion handled it though. They took it with stride, and adapted to keeping the structure covertly, which worked for 10,000 years. As compared to the other option of making a fuss and possibly getting straight broken up, very good strategic decision on their end. Just have to make a few nosy inquisitors disappear over the millennia.

[Skywrath]

22 minutes ago, lansalt said:

Because he was sleeping, not in stasis like Guilliman.

 

 

Actually I had a pet theory about that.. could the reason the Lion is looking older is not because of age (as it's been stated primarchs/custodes don't age) but as a repercussion with his battle with Luther, where the warp energy gave him that appearance, akin to Palpatine?

[phandaal]

18 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

He might generally approve of how his Legion handled it though. They took it with stride, and adapted to keeping the structure covertly, which worked for 10,000 years. As compared to the other option of making a fuss and possibly getting straight broken up, very good strategic decision on their end. Just have to make a few nosy inquisitors disappear over the millennia.

 

Not really breaking up the Legion, then carrying on a 10,000 year secret war using circles within circles within circles to throw off enemies and allies alike... that is definitely something the Lion would approve of.

[lansalt]

13 minutes ago, Skywrath said:

 

Actually I had a pet theory about that.. could the reason the Lion is looking older is not because of age (as it's been stated primarchs/custodes don't age) but as a repercussion with his battle with Luther, where the warp energy gave him that appearance, akin to Palpatine?

It's part of the fluff that Custodes age, they become Eyes of the Emperor when they are too slow to still being bodyguards in the Palace. And Guilliman has been called aged by some of the characters IIRC.

[Khornestar]

Damn, what a perfect mini for the Lion’s return. The fact that he aged (while actually sleeping, or however he occupied the passage of time) was such a cool decision.

 

The head options, all great. The striding to end some foe pose, also great. The watchers are creepy little buggers but they can be left off the base.

 

I do wonder about the scepter thing. Some badge of office in imperium nihilus?

 

I have a fool’s hope that there will be some way to use him with an army of Black Templars. Unlikely, but if I have to get him just to paint him, I will.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Khornestar

[Mjasghar]

Will be interesting to see the destruction of the entire focus of the DA - hunting the Fallen and covering up their existence 

I doubt the Lion will let that continue - maybe some head punches on the way?

Maybe the fall to Chaos of the most extreme like Asmodai as hinted at in War of Secrets?

And maybe we will see the fulfilment of the vision from Pandorax and the rescue of the GK Fallen?

[Karhedron]

8 minutes ago, Mjasghar said:

Will be interesting to see the destruction of the entire focus of the DA - hunting the Fallen and covering up their existence 

 

Who says? Circles within circles, information on a need-know-basis, doing what is right without regard for glory. Those sound like actions the Lion would approve of.

 

Lion el Johnson: "So you covered up a schism in our ranks for 10,000 years?"

Azrael: "Yes my Lord"

Lion el Johnson: "You didn't tell the authorities, the Inquisition or even my brother about this?"

Azrael: "No my Lord"

Lion el Johnson: "Excellent, carry on"

[WrathOfTheLion]

Most of each Unforgiven chapter doesn't even know about that purpose, so any shakeup is really only with the Unforgiven Chapters' leadership and First Company.

Edited March 24, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Kastor Krieg]

1 hour ago, Skywrath said:

 

Actually I had a pet theory about that.. could the reason the Lion is looking older is not because of age (as it's been stated primarchs/custodes don't age) but as a repercussion with his battle with Luther, where the warp energy gave him that appearance, akin to Palpatine?

Possibly not 'just warp energy aging', but simply just as the final explosion tossed the Fallen all over time and space, the duel between Luther and the Lion took an inordinate amount of subjective time?

[Skywrath]

1 hour ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Possibly not 'just warp energy aging', but simply just as the final explosion tossed the Fallen all over time and space, the duel between Luther and the Lion took an inordinate amount of subjective time?

 

Let's go with that - that's a far more elegant explanation than what I put up.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Skywrath

[Dornfist]

I am beyond thrilled that the Lion is back, being a massive DA fan. Valrak was right. I also figured Jonson would go up against Angron and I am glad that it is confirmed he will (I would be okay if he loses the duel, but wins the battle lol).

 

Regarding the model, I am getting massive Count Dooku vibes (especially animated Dooku from the Filoniverse lol).

 

And as for how the Lion will react to what has been going on with his Legion, I actually feel his 10,000 year nap will have forced him to reevaluate how he did things especially the Luther situation. He has always been very dutiful, so to learn his Legion have been shirking in their duties to the Imperium to chase the Fallen will not be something he will approve of with a changed mindset. That being said, I am sure he will be eager to get the Fallen arc wrapped up quickly before the Inquisition and the wider Imperium find out.

 

And Jonson will be happy to be reunited with Guilliman: I admittedly get incensed by the notion of the Lion and Guilliman causing a split in the 40k Imperium when their Imperium Secundus arc in the Heresy book series sees them grow to respect each other and even become friends. And they both miss Sanguinuis, who I feel can never be brought back from the dead due to how his sacrifice is so iconic in 40k lore and his Legion's story, much like Ferrus Manus' death for the Iron Hands.

 

Anyway, those are my ramblings on the topic.

[Scribe]

11 hours ago, Wispy said:

Am i crazy thinking that Ultarmarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves should be the loyalist counterparts to Mortarion, Angron, Fulgrim, and Magnus all other Primarchs are tertiary?

 

I'd sooner see Sanguinius cheat death some how and comeback as some loyalist-Avatar-of-Sanguinius thingy over someone like Khan or Vulkan get a crack over him. Maybe Dorne is okay because Black Templar are a fully realized codex and model line again.

 

I mean yeah. Of all the things GW could do that would be absolutely idiotic, bringing back Sanguinius from the dead is really high on that list.

 

Khan is awesome, and would be my choice for the 4th.

[Arkangilos]

I just hope that the watchers moved sleeping Lion around some while he slept. I’ve seen the pressure wounds caused by laying in one spot for too long and it isn’t pretty. 

[Quantum]

1 hour ago, Dornfist said:

And Jonson will be happy to be reunited with Guilliman: I admittedly get incensed by the notion of the Lion and Guilliman causing a split in the 40k Imperium when their Imperium Secundus arc in the Heresy book series sees them grow to respect each other and even become friends. And they both miss Sanguinuis, who I feel can never be brought back from the dead due to how his sacrifice is so iconic in 40k lore and his Legion's story, much like Ferrus Manus' death for the Iron Hands.

 

I will be so disappointed if the Lion and Guilliman don't have a big brotherly hug when they first meet.

 

*hugs*

Lion: ...So... You've kicked this Imperium into shape, somewhat. Carry on, I guess. ...Well... I better go smite some traitors, or something.

Guilliman: Yeah... Er... Say... Want and army to accompany you? I got some awesome Crusade fleets that I'm sure you would like.

Lion: Thanks, but I'm good. My sons have that covered. Well... I'll be off. Don't let dad's empire collapse while I'm gone.

Guilliman: Sure. And don't you get killed while frolicking about. I am sick of having to do all this crap by myself while you were sleeping in late.

Lion: What, do I look like some pansy-arsed blue-boy to you? Nah, you just play regent while I go win a couple of wars. See you around, bro.

Guilliman: Bye bro. Don't trip on your robes while you are having fun, leaving me with all the hard work.

*both nod, then turn around and walk away* 

 

 

[Shinespider]

While I don't see them having a personal split, I think it would be interesting if, for example, Lion had a more critical opinion of the Ecclesiarchy.

[Crimson Longinus]

As unfortunate it is that they're bringing loyalist primarchs into 40K, the model is simply stunning. I think it would look even better with a different paintjob, I'm not sure that green armour with green robes is the best possible choice. 

[crimsondave]

30 minutes ago, Shinespider said:

While I don't see them having a personal split, I think it would be interesting if, for example, Lion had a more critical opinion of the Ecclesiarchy.

I could easily see Lion saying everything RG wanted to say and more.  He’ll probably cause political problems but I bet deep down RG will be happy someone with his stroke is around who will tell them how inept, ignorant, and imbecilic they are.