Wh40k 10th Edition Terminator Datasheet, Rapid Fire and "Anti" Rules

[INKS]

8 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

Did terminators previously not have sergeants in the squad or have the sergeants only got different stats on the offensive side ?

 

I had been wondering about this with the termagant datasheets that the statblock seemingly was designed with generally having only a single statline, with 2 being an exception (and 3 the physical max) however in current datasheets I think the average is 2 statlines, not 1.

 

Some of those squadleaders had only higher BS/WS, S, A or Ld... the first 3 now reflected in the weapons and Ld having a single Ld for the entire squad makes more sense.

 

And while graphically looks a little better than the termagent datasheet, I still think the design is bad/amateurish.. but I think cosmetics like that only bother the people who can easily do it theirselves anyway XD

Bothers me some that we don't see what weapon loadouts they can take. Who can take what and so on. The Sgt is likely not any more special than any other Terminators. LD is the same across the board, attacks are now on the weapons (we just don't know who can take what weapons and how many) and Str seems to be standardized. 

 

Edit: we also don't know unit size, and points.

Edited April 4, 2023 by INKS

[Jolemai]

Sergeants can only have power swords and the +1 ATK a Sergeant had is baked into that.

imo, it's unlikely Terminators will change from their classic loadouts.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jolemai

[Wraithwing]

My guess on Devastating Wounds: Hit rolls of a 6 score double wounds. 

[Jolemai]

  

Just now, Wraithwing said:

My guess on Devastating Wounds: Hit rolls of a 6 score double wounds. 

 

Or possibly a rending-type thing where it betters armour on a certain dice roll?

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jolemai

[Raven1]

This makes me wonder if Death Guard terminators will be T6, and if Thousand Sons terminators will be 3++. Both of those options are rather nice.

[Vardus]

17 minutes ago, INKS said:

Remember- attacks are now based on weapons and not who is using it. close combat knives were 3 attacks, the power weapons is 4 attacks. It's just their balancing. 

 

Just guessing but knives and power weapons are generally faster than a power first which only has 2 attacks. So it's kind of a speed thing? (maybe)?

 

But Power Fists and Chainfists, on Terminators at least, have 3 attacks.

[INKS]

Just now, Vardus said:

 

But Power Fists and Chainfists, on Terminators at least, have 3 attacks.

I made a mistake and now corrected myself. 

[TheMawr]

4 minutes ago, INKS said:

Bothers me some that we don't see what weapon loadouts they can take. Who can take what and so on. The Sgt is likely not any more special than any other Terminators. LD is the same across the board, attacks are now on the weapons (we just don't know who can take what weapons and how many) and Str seems to be standardized. 

 

Edit: we also don't know unit size, and points.

 

Its remniscent a bit to 2nd edition, the army list had wargear and points, but not the special rules, while the profiles had the special rules. Both had stats.

 

I think the datacards are for in game purposes only, but the codex still has datasheets with points, wargear options etc. But the moment you start the game you (can) use the cards and dont need the book anymore. But thats just theory.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

No Primaris keyword! We know these Terminators could, in theory, all be Primaris. Terminators can get in Land Raiders, surly that won't change?! Now, for my leap... All Primaris transport restrictions gone?! I hope so! I want Bladeguard pouring out my Spartan.

[ZeroWolf]

1 minute ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

No Primaris keyword! We know these Terminators could, in theory, all be Primaris. Terminators can get in Land Raiders, surly that won't change?! Now, for my leap... All Primaris transport restrictions gone?! I hope so! I want Bladeguard pouring out my Spartan.

Certainly looks that way

[Frogian]

17 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

Sergeants can only have power swords and the +1 ATK a Sergeant had is baked into that.

 

That works for this termie squad, but wouldn't for terminator assault squads where they all have the same weapons - so maybe +1A for Sergeants is gone (which is honestly fine with me)

[AenarIT]

10 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

No Primaris keyword! We know these Terminators could, in theory, all be Primaris. Terminators can get in Land Raiders, surly that won't change?! Now, for my leap... All Primaris transport restrictions gone?! I hope so! I want Bladeguard pouring out my Spartan.

There's not a single mention of "primaris" in the new lieutenant marketing article, neither in its name. Just "lieutenant".

[INKS]

2 things:

1 assault terminators seem to get a different data sheet.

2 attacks are baked into weapons now, so the sgt seems to be the same as another terminator.

[Cruor Vault]

33 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

  

 

Or possibly a rending-type thing where it betters armour on a certain dice roll?

 

34 minutes ago, Wraithwing said:

My guess on Devastating Wounds: Hit rolls of a 6 score double wounds. 

EDIT: Oops, thought both comments I quoted were for critical wounds...  My comments are related to ONLY Critical wounds.  I have no idea regarding Devastating Wounds.

 

It’s not any extra damage.  
 

The article covers this in the small text at the bottom.   Basically Critical wounds is a new way of saying “6s always wound”. 
 

it also opens up a wide range of mechanics that can be triggered off it.
 

Off the top of my head…
 

An Anti-X ability is essentially what would we would call ‘Poison X’ currently, but is a simplified USR style mechanic rather than the 40 different special rules we have now.  
 

It ALSO allows for a lot of abilities that are currently worded as triggering on rolls to wound of XYZ to trigger off critical wounds instead.   For instance (assuming mortal wounds are still in the game) Alot of the MWs on unmodified 6s abilities would now be ‘causes MW on critical wounds’ instead.  
 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Cruor Vault

[BluejayJunior]

Anyone else notice that Rapid Ingress stratagem happens in your opponent's movement phase? That is an interesting twist. 

 

Also, the lack of Heavy on any of their weapons? So either lacking a Heavy weapon type or it won't affect Terminators. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by BluejayJunior

[Orange Knight]

Devastating Wounds is not the same rule as Critical Wounds.

 

The article says that we'll learn more about Devastating Wounds in a future article.

[sairence]

42 minutes ago, acrozatarim said:

Chainfists' thing was always cutting through bulkheads etc because they are literally a construction site tool turned to combat purposes, so I'm happy for them to just get a boost vs vehicles tbh.

 

Interestingly, them being Anti-Vehicle has some implications about how terrain will work as well. If there was to be destroyable terrain, the chainfist is the weapon for that sort of job, so I guess that means we're not seeing things like destroyable bunkers coming back - or they're classified as vehicles for some reason.

 

Fortifications generally already have the vehicle keyword in 9th, so wouldn't be a big leap.

[Vanger]

People, just look at the official pictures, the sergeant is clearly marked and has a power sword. Why mention that the unit has a sgt. and waste space with unneccessary stats, when you can bake it into it's profile? That's the whole point of the new layout! Reduce unnecessary rules referencing and calculation. "Simplified, but not simple"

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

17 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

Some new tidbits on the Terminator article

 

 

Critical Wounds are, "A guaranteed success, normally achieved by rolling an unmodified six."

 

. 

 

We heard you, you don’t like stratagems, so here’s a stratagem reveal!

 

I find it interesting that fists for them don’t seem to have a -1 to hit built in

[phandaal]

4 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

We heard you, you don’t like stratagems, so here’s a stratagem reveal!

 

I remember seeing that strategems would move to be more reactionary instead of just buffs, and this certainly does support this.

 

Fury of the First becoming a datasheet ability, plus a strategem you can use to jump something in from reserves on your opponent's turn.

[marspeople]

How are we supposed to know who can take what weapon and how many?

[Aramis K]

36 minutes ago, BluejayJunior said:

Also, the lack of Heavy on any of their weapons? So either lacking a Heavy weapon type or it won't affect Terminators. 

 

That's neat, with weapons on datasheet can just drop both Heavy and Relentless rules here. Nice and simple.

 

Will have to get used to fact the same weapon isn't the same everywhere.

Rules are now for the tool + the user.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Aramis K

[Magos Takatus]

13 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I find it interesting that fists for them don’t seem to have a -1 to hit built in

It's a good point. The nature of these new Datasheets open the door for Power Fists having different stats for different units. I'm not saying it would happen but perhaps mounting a Power Fist on a suit of Terminator armour makes it less cumbersome than standard power armour? All the extra weight, servos and gyros and stuff might make it easier to slap someone with it. 

[Lemondish]

3 minutes ago, EnsignJoker said:

Just read the WarCom post about the terminator datasheet. That all seems… complicated. More so than what we have now. 

Did you know that Terminators have 5 special abilities on their data sheets today, and they all refer to special bespoke faction rules rather than a universal rule? One of those special abilities is actually made up of 4 separate special rules all on it's own. On top of all this, you have one bespoke stratagem and no less than three separate faction specific stratagems that can apply at any time. Oh, and that's if you're only using the Codex. All of these rules are found on different pages, and if you add in the complexity of the expanded ruleset from additional supplements you start having multiple pages of cross referencing across multiple books just to understand one single unit's unique, special, bespoke rules.

 

So I have zero idea why you think this is possibly anywhere close to as complex. Ostensibly, from what we've seen, all rules referenced here are universal, found in the BRB. You have that, and this small card, and you have literally everything you would need for this unit to behave on the tabletop without all the nonsense cross reference of today.

 

 

[Cruor Vault]

4 minutes ago, EnsignJoker said:

Just read the WarCom post about the terminator datasheet. That all seems… complicated. More so than what we have now. 

 

Maybe, but realize all of those special rules and abilities we saw are transferrable over to tons of other units/weapons in the game.

 

Anti-X covers every single instance of "this weapon wounds XYZ on the roll of Y

 

Rapid Fire showed us how Dakka weapons will almost certainly change, and probably heralds the return of some weapon profiles that used to be called Salvo. 

 

*If Grav-Guns aren't A1, Rapid Fire 2 I will be seriously disappointed!