Wh40k 10th Edition Terminator Datasheet, Rapid Fire and "Anti" Rules

[Doctor Perils]

2 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Anti Daemons runs the risk of costing issues. GK may end up struggling against non daemons or too good against them.

Anti Monster sounds fairer.

 

I agree some of the Sgt weapon options will likely disappear, especially the power CC options now they are combined, but dropping the Heavy options down to ML only will really hurt Tacticals. 

One can only hope they continue to  include the Heavy weapons available in the Devastator box for Tacticals. 

The KT datasheets fit tonnes of weapon options on them, I can't see them skimping here but I'm used to disappointment by now lolz.

I agree on the whole, but I think Daemon (or something like WARPBORN) should also be present in more cases: daemonkin and daemon engines, check; avatars of Khaine and Ynnead, check; and so on. These ANTI-WARP weapons should also be rare, perhaps a few characters, and low powered (5+ max)

 

The Tyranic War Veterans/lieutenants could be fun with ANTI-TYRANNID 5+ as a unit ability rather than weapon modifier?

 

ANTI-PSYKER would probably also be a thing for the dedicated witch hunters like the assassin and silent sisters, perhaps even some Black Templars and World Eaters

[MARK0SIAN]

I’m wondering if they’ll use anti-air as a new way of dealing with flyers? It’s possible but wouldn’t work as a way of getting around any hit penalties which is where they have traditionally buffed anti-flyer shooting.

[Interrogator Stobz]

@Doctor Perils

Agree that scarcity is key. 

 

GK struggle with that concept as 'every Knight is a mighty psyker with a mighty force weapon and mighty anti daemon wards'.

 

If anti-whatever is only on leaders weapons etc it could work as the 'imbalance' cost is only on a few points.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[phandaal]

5 hours ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I’m wondering if they’ll use anti-air as a new way of dealing with flyers? It’s possible but wouldn’t work as a way of getting around any hit penalties which is where they have traditionally buffed anti-flyer shooting.

 

They may have dedicated anti-flyer weapons but I cannot see anyone building them as a standard part of their list unless they are useful elsewhere. i.e. Redemptor dread rocket pods. People take those for the extra firepower.

 

Flyers are too rare for most people to build specifically to counter them.

[MARK0SIAN]

18 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

They may have dedicated anti-flyer weapons but I cannot see anyone building them as a standard part of their list unless they are useful elsewhere. i.e. Redemptor dread rocket pods. People take those for the extra firepower.

 

Flyers are too rare for most people to build specifically to counter them.

Oh yeah, for sure. I’m not expecting an abundance of flyers all of a sudden. I’m more just spitballing what other ‘anti’ categories they may create. Anti-air seems like it would be an obvious one but I can’t see what use it would actually have. Historically, flyers haven’t been difficult to wound, they’ve mainly been difficult to hit so any ‘anti’ ability would probably be of limited use.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I’m wondering if they’ll use anti-air as a new way of dealing with flyers? It’s possible but wouldn’t work as a way of getting around any hit penalties which is where they have traditionally buffed anti-flyer shooting.

They can write it into the core rules that anti-aircraft weapons also ignore the -1 to hit that other weapons suffer

[danodan123]

2 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

They can write it into the core rules that anti-aircraft weapons also ignore the -1 to hit that other weapons suffer

If they suffer :)

[MARK0SIAN]

10 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

If they suffer :)

It’s the 41st millennium, everyone suffers 

[jaxom]

7 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Maybe we will get Hellfire Shells back for Heavy Bolters with anti-Monster 3+ since lore-wise they were designed to take down by Nids.

 

We probably won't see a huge amount of Anti-Infantry because generally wounding infantry isn't that hard anyway and it would skew against armies like Death Guard and Custodes who's signature capability is tough infantry. I can see Dark Eldar Splinter weapons getting anti-Infantry though as that is kinda their signature too. Sniper weapons would also make sense for anti-infantry.

Sounds about right. I wouldn't be surprised if the "poison"-style stuff ends up almost always being anti-infantry paired with anti-monster, but the anti-monster is one or two values higher. Like a splinter rifle going down to S2, but being anti-infantry(4+) anti-monster(5+). I expect purely anti-monster effects to be the domain of relics, warlord traits, and special characters (i.e. monster-slayers).

[Isual]

Not to forget "anti Fallen" as something useless to give to the Dark Angels. 

[chapter master 454]

What I am curious about is what the future holds for Twin-Linked. It kind of got a major buff in 8th and 9th with twin-linked weapons just getting double their shot count however in prior editions I would say it was rather...meh just because all it offered was a built-in re-roll to hit. I know that sounds great to some but a lot of the time it meant the weapons (at least in my opinion) felt underwhelming and the benefit you got from going in pursuit of those weapons or the cost of them often was sunk purely into a feature that was only for failure, otherwise it was just an expensive version of the weapon in question. Most times, the points costs of Twin-Linked weapons were nearing double the gun but not double the power (not always fully double but near enough most times) which when you compare that to taking say 2 lascannons instead, while maybe a little more pricey actually gave you double the firepower and still consistent but with higher ceilings.

 

Guess we'll see what it does, it may be just a Keyword that does what 8th and 9th did (double the attacks the weapon makes) OR it could be inherent re-rolls to hit. Personally more a fan of the former, as the whole lore of it is that they spit more projectiles down range; that was the justification for the re-roll to hit in old editions: how COULD you miss?

 

However the new way things stack together and the odd nature of how we ow finally have a "generic" weapon category now technically is something I find amusing considering I believe since the games inception such a thing never existed. Then Votann come along with HUNTR weapons and it's a new craze!

[Lord Marshal]

2 hours ago, chapter master 454 said:

What I am curious about is what the future holds for Twin-Linked.

 

They'll probably just give the profile of the weapons that used to have it extra shots. Heresy 2.0 turned a lot of 'Twin-linked' (but not all) weapons into Gravis [Weapon] which typically is just 2-shots of whatever [Weapon] it is. 

[Blindhamster]

12 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

They'll probably just give the profile of the weapons that used to have it extra shots. Heresy 2.0 turned a lot of 'Twin-linked' (but not all) weapons into Gravis [Weapon] which typically is just 2-shots of whatever [Weapon] it is. 

twin linked was seen on the gaunt sheet, so its an actual rule still. wouldn't be surprised if its something like every hit counts as 2.

[Vanger]

Todays article confirms tahat "nat 6" rolls are called Critical Hits/Wounds and certain other abilities trigger off these. 

I think that answers what Devastating Wounds is good for on the Assault Cannon. Anytime it wounds, it gets Critical Wounds. And my bet is that Comnbat Doctrines will be just somethint that interacts with Criticals. 

[spessmarine]

Exploding 6's to hit becomes Sustained Hits.

Auto wound on a 6 to hit becomes Lethal Hits.

Ignore Lookout Sir is probably Precision, or maybe the classic you choose what model gets removed.

 

Terminators now, when leveraging Oath of Moment:

Ignore all negative to-hit modifiers, add 1 to hit rolls, reroll hit and wound rolls.

Good luck to anything getting PFisted by them, they'll sure need it

Edited April 7, 2023 by spessmarine

[CL_Mission]

The example of Sustained hits in the article is [Sustained Hits 1] so presumably some units/weapons could get [Sustained Hits 2] or even more. Is there anything in the game currently that gets 2 extra hits of a 6? 

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

One of the Black Templar Litonies grants it to the Chaplain, and I believe the latest version of the World Eater's Berserker Glaive has it too. Might be some others I'm forgetting.

[spessmarine]

googling...

Blooddancer trait for Deldar is +2 hits

Lightning Lock gun for Knights as well

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Wonder if Twin Linked could be a limiting trait. I know it hasn't traditionally been, but what if it indicates a weapon that has twice the shots, as shown in its attack stat, but both shots have to be aimed at the same unit? Not based on anything, just sharing a shower thought.

[Lemondish]

7 hours ago, CL_Mission said:

The example of Sustained hits in the article is [Sustained Hits 1] so presumably some units/weapons could get [Sustained Hits 2] or even more. Is there anything in the game currently that gets 2 extra hits of a 6? 

Tesla for Necrons also behaves this way.

7 hours ago, Marshal Valkenhayn said:

Wonder if Twin Linked could be a limiting trait. I know it hasn't traditionally been, but what if it indicates a weapon that has twice the shots, as shown in its attack stat, but both shots have to be aimed at the same unit? Not based on anything, just sharing a shower thought.

An interesting thought, but isn't that the case today anyway? You can split fire your units but I don't think you can split fire a weapon today.

[ZeroWolf]

You can't, all shots from one weapon have to have the same target.

[Orange Knight]

I don't think Daemon should have it's own category.

 

At the end of the day, they all fall into the infantry, monster or vehicle categories.

 

It's far too specialised for a game like this, and Daemons make up a small portion of the total units and are completely absent from a lot of factions.

[CL_Mission]

40 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I don't think Daemon should have it's own category.

 

 

Do we need to think of it as categories? Anti interacts with the keywords already present on the targets datasheet right? If Daemons have a Daemon keyword then having some weapons be [Anti-Daemon 3+] or something is no trouble. They might not be particularly prevalent but it would be thematic for some Grey Knights weapons and would give them an advantage against the foe they are designed to fight.

If Anti can interact with faction keywords you could even have some like [Anti-Tyranids 4+] for something like a special issue ammo for Tyranic war veterans. Having hundreds of different, very specific Anti weapons could be a headache but I don't think it needs to be limited to just 4 very general categories, especially when it's as easy to resolve at looking at a datasheets keywords.

[Lemondish]

8 hours ago, CL_Mission said:

They might not be particularly prevalent but it would be thematic for some Grey Knights weapons and would give them an advantage against the foe they are designed to fight.

It would be kind of crazy if Grey Knights carried this anti-daemon rule while Daemons carried some kind of anti-psyker behaviour so that the head-to-head matchup ended up being an extremely lethal brawl lol

[jaxom]

Oh jeez, it just hit me. Castallen Crowe means there is a baseline CAD for power armor Grey Knights and new Terminators mean new CAD file to be a baseline for new Grey Knight Terminators.