Wh40k 10th Edition Terminator Datasheet, Rapid Fire and "Anti" Rules

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

42 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

They'll likely be umm more aggressive. Not as tough but more shots more attacks. Not really much can do with them but make them deadlier.

Could make them more of an intermediate between normal armor and terminator armor.

a 2+ with no invuln does that, by making them more survivable they become more able to kill things.

[OttoVonAwesome]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Does it seem more complicated than what we have now or just a new paradigm to learn?

Pretty much this. Once people get used to the new Datasheet format thier brains will feel less burdened by the newness of it. I struggled a bit with it at first too but now I'm like oh this is fine. I would like to see the actual full unit entries, points and squad sizes etc. 

[Nephaston]

5 hours ago, AenarIT said:

There's not a single mention of "primaris" in the new lieutenant marketing article, neither in its name. Just "lieutenant".

The naming scheme for distinctly differently armoured/armed character already does not include primaris, for example the Captain in Gravis Armour, the Lieutenant in Reiver Armour, or the Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rilfe.

Not to deny the possibility of the keyword vanishing, but on the naming side GW didn't do anything new.

[Kallas]

3 hours ago, Ming the Merciless said:

I have a (bad) feeling that Drukhari poison weapons will become anti-infantry, thus reducing their currently hilarious effectiveness against (mostly Tyranid) monsters 

It's possible that they could get [Anti-Infantry 4+] and also get [Anti-Monster 5+] or something, to represent the additional resilience of a Monster, while keeping them from being too effective against Vehicles, similar to how the Chainfist is [Anti-Vehicle 3+] so doesn't boost vs Infantry or Monsters (probably)/

 

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Based on what we’re seeing here though there’s little reason to take aggressors over terminators 

 

I think being able to shoot their gunsin combat would go along way and really help them out.

We saw on the Termagant datasheet that weapons can have both Assault and Pistol, so maybe the Boltstorm/Flamestorm Gauntlets will have Assault and Pistol too. Letting them fire into combat would make them premier infantry blenders with their ranged weapons, even if they get tarpitted.

 

Terminators would, presumably, have better accuracy (Fury of the First) and so be more effective Elite killers, while Aggressors will likely have WS 4+ BS/FS Gauntlets - and maybe even a return of their Firestorm from 8th.

[OttoVonAwesome]

22 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

The naming scheme for distinctly differently armoured/armed character already does not include primaris, for example the Captain in Gravis Armour, the Lieutenant in Reiver Armour, or the Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rilfe.

Not to deny the possibility of the keyword vanishing, but on the naming side GW didn't do anything new.

It's definitely gone as a keyword. It's only purpose was to restrict transport options and unlock strategems. With less strategems and armour type keywords remaining to restrict transport options there's no need for it anymore. 

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Khornestar said:

I like everything I’m seeing but I won’t be buying any cards at all, even when the codices are released. I was going through my dice/cards box yesterday and the number of outdated cards was absurd. Not to mention if there’s an erratum that changes the text, that individual card is no longer useful.

 

Otherwise, I really like everything they showed off today. Terminators feel like terminators. They nailed it.

 

I like the idea of cards. Used them for Warmachine/Hordes/Malifaux back in the day and they definitely make the experience better.

 

But yeah, we need some expectation that the cards themselves will stay relevant for long enough to justify a purchase.

[Orange Knight]

Cards are potentially the only things I will buy. They are really handy and improve the experience when gaming.

 

The best perk is that you only need to take the cards for the units in your list. With a faction like Marines this is a big deal.

[Lord Marshal]

14 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

I like the idea of cards. Used them for Warmachine/Hordes/Malifaux back in the day and they definitely make the experience better.

 

But yeah, we need some expectation that the cards themselves will stay relevant for long enough to justify a purchase.

 

I'd guess if somebody is a Marine/Tyranid player they won't be, but anything beyond that is going to be- well, luck of the draw of which codexes arrive first. 

 

Much like how Genestealer Cult and Space Wolf players (iirc?) got plenty of use out of the Indexes, but not so much Chaos Marine and Mechanicum players.

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Lemondish]

6 minutes ago, phandaal said:

But yeah, we need some expectation that the cards themselves will stay relevant for long enough to justify a purchase.

I suspect there are going to be a tremendous amount of third parties printing their own version of cards, or providing templates to do the same at home.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm scared to see the plague marine card with their 17 weapon profiles. Hopefully they get their load outs simplified! 

[Lemondish]

4 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I'm scared to see the plague marine card with their 17 weapon profiles. Hopefully they get their load outs simplified! 

You think that's crazy, I cannot imagine at this stage what a Deathwatch kill team is going to look like.

 

Less of a data card and more of a data poster.

 

But regarding Plague Marines I would assume at worst they might lose a bit of that variety and just end up wielding a single profile plague weapon.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Lemondish

[DesuVult]

I would not be surprised to see the Deathwatch kill teams streamlined in construction for 10th.

[Interrogator Stobz]

39 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

I like the idea of cards. Used them for Warmachine/Hordes/Malifaux back in the day and they definitely make the experience better.

 

But yeah, we need some expectation that the cards themselves will stay relevant for long enough to justify a purchase.

I'm gonna buy the dex, photo the datasheets I use and print them at work.

Cards are great, FAQd ones are less great.

[Lemondish]

8 minutes ago, DesuVult said:

I would not be surprised to see the Deathwatch kill teams streamlined in construction for 10th.

Nor would I, and I am dying to learn how lol

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I expect Aggressors will be cheaper, better in shooting and faster moving.

 

They won't have an Invul, and will be slightly worse in close combat, but only marginally.

currently both are 5" move and i honestly don't see them going up to 6, so maybe a rapid assault type rule gets built into their datasheet?

[DesuVult]

If durability goes up being able to pump out shots in melee could be pretty useful and could be an aggressor thing. 

[Urauloth]

53 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

But regarding Plague Marines I would assume at worst they might lose a bit of that variety and just end up wielding a single profile plague weapon.

Probably a profile for the knives and one for the other one-handed stuff, yeah. If power weapons are being rolled back into single profiles it would be silly for bubotic axes and maces to have different ones. They might combine the great cleaver and the flail, too. That still leaves 8 ranged weapons, so it's going to be a busy card whatever they do!

[spessmarine]

wow, quite the rules glow-up

wild that for a time one failed autogun save was enough to kill them

 

they definitely feel elite now!

[jaxom]

9 hours ago, tzeentch9 said:

Doesn't quite apply, ie elder vehicles certainly move around a lot, dreadnoughts and the like would fight back. I presume it's just done that way for rules reasons, rather than flavour reasons, just feels weird

May be to also reduce lethality against character monsters.

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I find it interesting that fists for them don’t seem to have a -1 to hit built in

I think it’s because Fury of the First is baked into the power fist WS. I think the chainfist being WS4+ is a mechanical balance to being able to so easily wound  any vehicle.

[Sgt.Sangha]

Anyone else notice the under faction it says oath if moment? And that if you select an enemy unit for oath if moment its a plus 1 to hit...that to me means i can have all my terminator squads with that rule target one unit and get really good hits on it 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Sgt.Sangha
Spelling

[DesuVult]

Yep, hitting on 2+ if you select a key unit.  If Oath of Moment is every turn that could combo well with deepstriking in the enemy turn, moving, and beating on the Oath of Moment target.

[chapter master 454]

Interesting stuff. A lot of this really does reinforce that their "simplified but not simple" isn't just talk, there is serious walk in that datasheet. Took a second to get the whole thing in my head but it works and is quite elegant. While maybe needing to refer to the weapon line for hitting is going to take some getting used it, helps keep things in one place.

 

However I am curious about how melee weapons will work? Pretty sure in AoS when models make melee attacks they just go in with EVERYTHING. They just start hitting you with the Ezio Critical Edge attack from Soul Caliber 5 which could be interesting.

Though could open up questions about legacy of certain weapons being paired like lightning claws.

 

Overall, I am liking it. Also like the idea of the Deep Strike on opponent turn stratagem. Far more potent for the going second player in a battle round but I find it fairly neat. We'll see how it works out though, normally being in front of the enemy on the board tends to lead to a brief existence on the table when its their turn.

[phandaal]

36 minutes ago, Sgt.Sangha said:

Anyone else notice the under faction it says oath if moment? And that if you select an enemy unit for oath if moment its a plus 1 to hit...that to me means i can have all my terminator squads with that rule target one unit and get really good hits on it 

 

Looks like a Space Marine general ability. Captain or HQ selects a unit and says "kill that one!" Then your other units beat it to oblivion.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, DesuVult said:

If durability goes up being able to pump out shots in melee could be pretty useful and could be an aggressor thing. 

I hope they did something to keep them interesting and relevant.

[Subtleknife]

I wonder if the anti rule will help balance plasma. I always felt plasma was too good at damaging vehicles. 

 

With this "anti" keyword, they can drop the strength and give it "anti monster/infantry" whilst helping balance against vehicles. 

 

Looks like a potentially good change for helping balance/give specific roles to weapons.