Space wolves in 10th edition

[Prot]

Great idea with Russ! I may have to get on of those. 
 

the extra cp is incredibly potent with GuilliRuss.  But I’m still waiting to hear points. He’s a beast and a huge force multiplier.  

 

I assume Bjorn will be treated similar to Guilliman getting a pseudo bodyguard rule. If I recall with three models within 3” he can’t be shot at unless you’re within 12”

 

also I noted from the notes that flyers are apparently effective but can’t hold anything… that assault ramp is looking very tempting. 
 

 

[Valerian]

7 hours ago, Prot said:

If I recall with three models within 3” he can’t be shot at unless you’re within 12”
 

 

 

He just needs to be within 3" of one or more friendly Adeptus Astartes Infantry units for that.

[Karhedron]

Nicely put @Valerian. I was thinking along the same lines myself. Traditionally, Wolves have done well balancing melee and close range firepower. Tactical Doctrine looks made for us.

[TiguriusX]

Hope keeps rising that dreads will be a bigger factor ih 10th

 

Swarmlord melee (S9) is below the dread preview we saw (T10)

 

Current game a swarmlord (S8) shreds most dreads (T7 rare T8)

[Wolf Guard Dan]

21 hours ago, Valerian said:

They're going to do a Faction-focus every single day from now on, so we should get pretty good insight on what's coming for Space Wolves within the next couple of weeks.

Someone elsewhere pointed out the graphic for faction focuses looks to be in order of how they’re releasing articles. Our photo was second to last so we may be waiting a few weeks for our faction focus.

 

I’m pretty happy with how 10th is looking. Can’t wait to see how we are treated. 

[Dark Shepherd]

2 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

Someone elsewhere pointed out the graphic for faction focuses looks to be in order of how they’re releasing articles. Our photo was second to last so we may be waiting a few weeks for our faction focus.

 

I’m pretty happy with how 10th is looking. Can’t wait to see how we are treated. 

Exactly 4 weeks if I can count properly :-/

 

Positive is theres a Valrak rumoured boxset for us at some stage

[Wolf Guard Dan]

2 hours ago, KrakenBorn said:

I need to get some Anti-Tank units for 10th now that toughness has gone up; up until now I've always relied on Redemptor Plasma guns, Wulfen, bladeguard and thunderhammer intercessor pack leaders.

 

I own a predator tank that I need to paint; I'm kind of hoping that'll be everything I need to carry the heavy anti-tank load and hold a backfield objective while my Redemptor lend Plasma fire and move up the board.

 

I'll be buying the box but the new Dread looks a little goofy for me; I wish it was just fist and lascannons or missiles. I know it's an update of a classic but I never liked that either.

 

I can also see a shield dome impulsor being worth running again, hopefully I can stick Ragnar in one with a unit of Bladeguard.

If you hit anything with enough hammers it will break. Wulfen don’t have 48” range like a lascannon but I think they’ll remain our best delete button.

 

I’ve got a land raider that I’m trying to figure if I want to make it Space Wolf or World Eater. That may be my long range addition to my company. 

 

I agree the new dreadnought looks a little goofy but that’s part of its charm.

 

I can’t wait to learn more about the edition and our place in it. I hope I’m not underwhelmed. 

[TiguriusX]

12 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

If you hit anything with enough hammers it will break. Wulfen don’t have 48” range like a lascannon but I think they’ll remain our best delete button.

 

I’ve got a land raider that I’m trying to figure if I want to make it Space Wolf or World Eater. That may be my long range addition to my company. 

 

I agree the new dreadnought looks a little goofy but that’s part of its charm.

 

I can’t wait to learn more about the edition and our place in it. I hope I’m not underwhelmed. 

 

I actually disagree with this take based on the previews we have seen so far

 

GW appears to be requiring dedicated anti tank weapons this edition

 

The already revealed PF and CF are prime examples.  Strength 8 only....we have seen numerous T buffs to vehicles above 8 already including dreadnoughts at T10

The CF makes up for it with the special anti-vehicle ability

The Nid reveal showed a nerf to the swarmlord bonesword profile as well (it went from wounding most vehicles on 3s in 9th edition to 5s in 10th)

 

I am doubting whether THs are the multi tool they were in 9th (similar to how meltas lost that niche)

Maybe we get lucky and Wulfen TH are the exception...

 

Prepare for the worst and you won't be disappointed

 

 

[Prot]

19 minutes ago, TiguriusX said:

 

I actually disagree with this take based on the previews we have seen so far

 

GW appears to be requiring dedicated anti tank weapons this edition

 

The already revealed PF and CF are prime examples.  Strength 8 only....we have seen numerous T buffs to vehicles above 8 already including dreadnoughts at T10

The CF makes up for it with the special anti-vehicle ability

The Nid reveal showed a nerf to the swarmlord bonesword profile as well (it went from wounding most vehicles on 3s in 9th edition to 5s in 10th)

 

I am doubting whether THs are the multi tool they were in 9th (similar to how meltas lost that niche)

Maybe we get lucky and Wulfen TH are the exception...

 

Prepare for the worst and you won't be disappointed

 

 

 

I was actually going to post something fairly similar.

 

What I was noticing is those new lascannons and the newer Primaris turret guns are actually nasty strong against armour. So in a fishbowl of infantry weapons I still think the Hammer is going to be a good 'all arounder' but I believe going after a tank is going to be a bit of a tough task even for Wulfen from what we've seen.

 

But that being said, it looks like a good unit of Long fangs perhaps, or a shooty dread heck even new speeders (?) complimented by an assault element could be a great combo. But it does look like 10th might be pointing towards an era of a more 'balanced' list than we've seen in a long time.

 

I've been calling 10th the 'slap chop' edition. It seems to be pulling in a lot of my favourite elements of of the last 6-7 editions.  This is a great reset though. We've been through this before. The last time we worked off of Index armies I felt the game was VERY balanced for a good 6-8 months, then the codexes slowly started a ramping up of arms races. 

 

We'll see but for now Wolves might be able to get away with a few dreads/brutalis/etc, and a heavy compliment of big hitters for hard targets. 

[Karhedron]

Most of the powerful anti-tank weapons we have seen so far seem to be mounted on other tanks. This means that it may be almost essential to bring a tank or two of your own simply to stop and enemy's tanks from running rampant through your army. Obviously we have only seen a handful of units so far  and a lot is still up in the air but it looks like vehicles will be a lot more appealing in 10th edition. Time to dust off my Iron Wolves perhaps....

[Wolf Guard Dan]

10 hours ago, TiguriusX said:

 

I actually disagree with this take based on the previews we have seen so far

 

GW appears to be requiring dedicated anti tank weapons this edition

 

The already revealed PF and CF are prime examples.  Strength 8 only....we have seen numerous T buffs to vehicles above 8 already including dreadnoughts at T10

The CF makes up for it with the special anti-vehicle ability

The Nid reveal showed a nerf to the swarmlord bonesword profile as well (it went from wounding most vehicles on 3s in 9th edition to 5s in 10th)

 

I am doubting whether THs are the multi tool they were in 9th (similar to how meltas lost that niche)

Maybe we get lucky and Wulfen TH are the exception...

 

Prepare for the worst and you won't be disappointed

 

 

That’s a fair assessment given the trends we’ve seen. I still think Wulfen will be the exception. Depends on the profile but I’d predict WS 4+ S 10 -2ap 3D on then hammers. Couldn’t predict the attacks, either 3 or 4. I don’t think they’re going to to Wulfen dirty. Close combat armies need ways of dealing with armor. If wulfen hammers are only S8 then my prediction falls apart. I think S 10 will be the sweet spot from what we’ve seen. Granted we haven’t seen much. The anticipation is exciting for me.

 

I haven’t been impressed by chain fists or some of the other ranged anti tank. The ranged anti tank seems swingy. Unless something is oath of moment’ed it doesn’t seem reliable due to the low attacks on stuff like the heavy laser destroyer. I’m more intrigued by godhammer land raider. 

[Valerian]

Wulfen should still work just fine as Anti-Tank, honestly.  The bad side, is that they'll only be Wounding most Vehicles on 5+.  That really hurts, but on the positive side, a unit of Wulfen with Thunderhammers get a crap-ton of Attacks.  Sure a vehicle mounted Lascannon might get 2 Attacks and wound on 3+, and do a lot of damage in a single hit, but a unit of Wulfen will probably get 12-16 Attacks with those Hammers, which will offset the 50% reduction in Wounding hits.

 

That being said, I'm pretty sad that my Eradicators aren't going to really fit the bill anymore.  They'll have to just target enemy Elite Infantry, like themselves, now I suppose.

 

I wonder however if that relatively new Desolator unit will serve as an infantry-based Anti-Tank ranged unit.  I could see that Superkrak rocket launcher getting upgraded in a similar way to the new 10e version of the Hunter Killer Missile, and that'd serve just fine.

[Karhedron]

We don't have the full picture so it is hard to say for certain but it looks like GW are pushing the idea that you will need tanks to counter enemy tanks. Units like the Gladiator Lancer and Repulsor Executioner have struggled to find a role in 9th  but I think that these "tank destroyers" will come into their own in 10th. Land Raiders and Predator Annihilators may also be decent choices.

 

Infantry look like they are still going to be able to kill vehicles but will need numbers to do it now. Eradicators still deal a lot of damage but will be moving from a 4+ to wound to a 5+ against most vehicles. I think that a mix of meltas and hammers is still going to be a viable solution dealing with armoured targets, particularly when combined with Oath of Moment.

 

Just watch out for facing other Marines as they will probably activate the Tactical Doctrine and fall back from combat in order to blast the Wulfen to pieces. Timing and co-ordination will be the key to success, exactly as it should be.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Because wulfen won't be so safe in combat i hope they give back Feel no pain or some other defensive buff. They are so glass cannon now but with fallback and shoot being more prevalent?

[Valerian]

Good point that Oath of Moment can/would really help Eradicators continue to be fairly reliable anti-Tank units.  Probably still not as good as they are now, but it’ll definitely help in that regard. 
 

And it just occurs to me that Oath of Moment would likewise really boost those Wulfen with Hammers that we were talking about, as an anti-Tank unit.  I think they’d be more than adequate. 
 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Valerian

[Karhedron]

I think it is intentional on GW's part that no anti-tank units will be as good as they were. This plays into the notion of greater survivability so that tanks are actually worth taking in the first place.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Karhedron
Typo

[SvenIronhand]

If any units survive, I want it to be the WGBL in Terminator Armor.

Not just because I just made one or anything.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, SvenIronhand said:

If any units survive, I want it to be the WGBL in Terminator.

 

Yes, with TDA getting a glow-up, the ability to put our Lt equivalent in that armour is a big bonus. 

 

Sadly I suspect WG Pack Leaders in TDA will be going away as it looks like GW are trying to get rid of mixed toughness and mixed save units. 

[Valerian]

4 hours ago, Karhedron said:

as it looks like GW are trying to get rid of mixed toughness and mixed save units. 

 

Although they did make the T10 Swarmlord a Leader that can join units.  Hopefully there isn't a unit of other T10 Tyranids for him to join.

[WrathOfTheLion]

It could be they've normalized most of it, but not all instances. The game can handle mixed toughness, it just can get funky.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

21 hours ago, Valerian said:

 

Although they did make the T10 Swarmlord a Leader that can join units.  Hopefully there isn't a unit of other T10 Tyranids for him to join.

Tyrant guard maybe? It would make sense for them to be as tough as a hive tyrant. But Swarmlord may be special. It would also make sense for there to be rules about shooting into mixed toughness. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

There are rules now for shooting into mixed toughness, where you use the toughness of whatever there is the most of in the unit. So joining a T5 Terminator to a T4 unit would mean you use T4 until you get to 1 PA Space Marine/1 Terminator left, in which case you'd have a choice, or just the Terminator left, in which case it's obviously T5.

 

The times where this got real funky was in units like the Dark Apostle, where you have two underlings, essentially dropping the DA to T3 until one had been slain. They errata'd that to just make the underlings T4 for that reason.

Edited May 7, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

In today's Daemons article they previewed a weapon rule called extra attacks. This is the new rule for weapons like Crushing teeth and claws or mecha dendrites that add additional attacks to your main attack. Nice to have this be a keyword and not clutter up the weapon block.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Rune Priest Jbickb
Early submit hit oops

[Prot]

I will tell you one thing though.... we were discussing the anti-tank aspect of Space Wolves and how to handle it in 10th since the anti-tank weapons on vehicles seemed so much better than what most melee could bring to the table in 10th.

 

Now that I've been able to confirm my suspicion on Hammers, I really don't think they will do the job against tanks. It looks like they -might- be capped at S8. (Although we can't be sure that will be the case for Wulfen (crosses fingers))

 

 

With the Fist and Hammer the only difference appears to be the hammer getting additional Mortal Wounds on a To Wound roll of 6, and trading off the WS3 instead of 2.

 

We lost the extra damage, and really you're hoping for a few 6's to wound to get the hammer to pay off at all really, and we don't know if SW will get the +1 to hit they currently enjoy.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Your suspicion was correct. 2 damage just isn’t going to hack it against heavy armor. I hope Wulfen will keep strength 10 but 2 damage is limiting. Now I’m really worried about combat being effective against strong vehicles at all. Even chain fists seem weak. 
 

Edit: thought about it a bit. Lethality is supposed to be down across there board so these changes make sense. It will take a couple turns for Wulfen or even chain fists to hack through a heavy vehicle and that’s probably fine. I do worry about the parity with big monsters to our heavy close combat units in effectiveness. Skarbrand can do 48 damage a turn. Our typical heavy close combat weapons will have an hard time keeping up being only 2D. The parity will come down to points. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Wolf Guard Dan