Space wolves in 10th edition

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

Edit: thought about it a bit. Lethality is supposed to be down across there board so these changes make sense. It will take a couple turns for Wulfen or even chain fists to hack through a heavy vehicle and that’s probably fine. I do worry about the parity with big monsters to our heavy close combat units in effectiveness. Skarbrand can do 48 damage a turn. Our typical heavy close combat weapons will have an hard time keeping up being only 2D.

 

I guess infantry is going to have a hard time taking on big monsters in melee. Maybe that is thematic to some extent and encourages us to bring along our big toys like Dreads to fight on a more even footing. I think that TH Wulfen will still be able to do good work with Oath of Moment in operation. Let's be conservative and assume Wulfen have 4A WS4+ and S8. 4 Hammer dudes will get:

 

8 Hits (12 with OOM)

1.5 wounding rolls and 1.5 Mortal Rolls ( 3.67 wounding and 3.67 MWs with OOM).

So that is an average of 3MWs and 2 regular wounds against a T9-16 target with a 3+ save. With OOM this goes up to 7MWs and 4 regular wounds.

 

That is 2/3 the wounds off a Repulsor or similar which is not too shabby. Also I have assumed pretty much worst-case stats for Wulfen with nothing like +1 to hit for being Space Wolves or any other bonuses. They are not going to be quite as efficient as they were in 9th but I think that the same will be true of a lot of units. If Wulfen Hammers are S10 then they suddenly look really good against medium targets like Dreads.

 

On another note, the Relic Shield adding +1W is quite interesting. I wonder if this is unique for models that already have an Invulnerable save. Will Storm Shields continue to provide an Invulnerable save or will they also go to +1W?

[Valerian]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

On another note, the Relic Shield adding +1W is quite interesting. I wonder if this is unique for models that already have an Invulnerable save. Will Storm Shields continue to provide an Invulnerable save or will they also go to +1W?

 

Yeah, that's the bit that really caught my attention, too.  Very curious.  

[Prot]

So a relic shield is perhaps just available to characters?  If it turns out shields just add a wound, this is going to make Wolf Termies…heck any Termies pretty crucial.  

[Wolf Guard Dan]

The shield may do something different depending on the unit. We see an example of that with the bolt gun for chaos marines have full shots at range but the battle sisters bolt gun is rapid fire. (Built in bolter discipline for marines so not a like for like comparison)

 

Sign me up for +1 wound on terminators though.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:40 PM, Wolf Guard Dan said:

Someone elsewhere pointed out the graphic for faction focuses looks to be in order of how they’re releasing articles. Our photo was second to last so we may be waiting a few weeks for our faction focus.

 

I’m pretty happy with how 10th is looking. Can’t wait to see how we are treated. 

This has been debunked. World eaters were at the end of the graphic and their faction focus is tomorrow.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Quote

That's four articles we're not getting for sure now. If it wasn't for the Lion I'd assume DA would be 100% on that list as well.

 

This is from the Space marine preview thread. Evidently we don't get a preview article. 

[Karhedron]

Slightly disappointing as I know many people are keen/anxious to see how these variant Chapters will fair in 10th edition. Oh well, its less than 6 weeks away now.

[WrathOfTheLion]

It's a bit disappointing to satisfy some passive curiosity, but it really doesn't matter in the long run.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I am a bit bummed mostly for curiosity reasons.

 

Now I wonder/hope we will get "other marines" faction focus covering the divergent chapters with less unit reveal and more army rule reveal. They did say no individual articles so who knows. 

[Bouargh]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:23 AM, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

 

This is from the Space marine preview thread. Evidently we don't get a preview article. 

 

Curious and unpleasant - WE get theirs and SW (and DA/BA)  would not get their own Faction focus? I wonder how is the line set...

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Bouargh said:

Curious and unpleasant - WE get theirs and SW (and DA/BA)  would not get their own Faction focus? I wonder how is the line set...

 

My guess is that WEs get their because they are already a stand-alone codex and not a subfaction of CSM. While BAs, DAs, BTs and SWs are going to be heading in the same direction, at the moment we are still subfactions of Space Marines. Whatever differences there are between us and Codex Chapters when the first Index drops will probably not be enough to warrant an article.

[Valerian]

From today’s article on 1st Companies, the Space Wolves are called out specifically for our Wolf Guard, who “join other packs in their Great Companies or act as lone wolves.”

 

So, it seems that 1) we’ll definitely keep our unique Wolf Guard Pack Leader mechanic, and 2) the old Lone Wolf unit datasheet might be returning (or a mechanic that creates them mid-battle might return, instead).

 

Those are a couple interesting tidbits. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Soooooo hopeful both of those are true. I miss Lone Wolves.

[Dark Shepherd]

4 hours ago, Valerian said:

From today’s article on 1st Companies, the Space Wolves are called out specifically for our Wolf Guard, who “join other packs in their Great Companies or act as lone wolves.”

 

So, it seems that 1) we’ll definitely keep our unique Wolf Guard Pack Leader mechanic, and 2) the old Lone Wolf unit datasheet might be returning (or a mechanic that creates them mid-battle might return, instead).

 

Those are a couple interesting tidbits. 

I hope we do keep them or get them as a unique character option

but my suspicion is we just get to take wolf guard battle leaders attached to units

 

am also suspecting characters wont be allowed to attach to Wulfen, except maybe maybe Wolf Priests

[WrathOfTheLion]

They answered the question of mixed toughness in one of these articles or leaks, stating the toughness of the unit is what is used.

 

So much easier to handle Wolf Guard Terminators in a squad.

[lonewolf81]

Spacewolves, Blood Angels , etc... will have the same faction rule with space marines (Oath of moment)  and they will probably get a special detachment each  which i imagine will let you include their unique units (the detachment rules will make them different from the other chapters). Because they dont have a different faction rule like Deathguard or World eaters, they dont get a faction focus. I really hope that we will be able to include unique units to gladious detachment and not lock them into the special detachment :)

Edited May 18, 2023 by lonewolf81

[Bouargh]

2 hours ago, lonewolf81 said:

Spacewolves, Blood Angels , etc... will have the same faction rule with space marines (Oath of moment)  and they will probably get a special detachment each  which i imagine will let you include their unique units (the detachment rules will make them different from the other chapters). Because they dont have a different faction rule like Deathguard or World eaters, they dont get a faction focus. I really hope that we will be able to include unique units to gladious detachment and not lock them into the special detachment :)

 

I agree that this is te most probable way for it to happen. And that extra detachments will be published through WD or so in case of Codex issue planned late in the RoadMap. This or Chapter Approved adjustments when other big four  chapters  wil get their own Codices. I am not really convinced that this is the way that would fit the best, but I can understand the reason(s) behind. Even if the sheer number of specific units released for each DA/SW/BA/BT makes me think that dedicated Factions would be better and cleaner. Even truer if we add DW and its so specific mechanisms at all levels. In the end, only GK will be issued as a dedicated Faction probably (?)...

 

[Karhedron]

5 hours ago, lonewolf81 said:

Spacewolves, Blood Angels , etc... will have the same faction rule with space marines (Oath of moment)  and they will probably get a special detachment each  which i imagine will let you include their unique units (the detachment rules will make them different from the other chapters).

 

Blood Angels are still mostly codex-compliant. I would be very annoyed if I could not run Sanguinary Guard or Death Company in a Gladius Strike Force.

 

Wolves are a bit different and the whole idea of Doctrines never sat so well on them IMHO. But if you take a Primaris SW army, it seem bonkers so me that you could not run them in a GSF.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I'm not convinced this is the case otherwise this image doesn't really make sense.

 

Why would they break SW, BA, DA, & BT seperate from space marines if they are just going to be a different detachment? Also your list of available units appear to be chosen at the point of ARMY selection not DETACHMENT selection so why wouldn't they make seperate army rules for separate armies which the above graphic seems to indicate SW, BA, DA, & BT are. Otherwise with space marines there will have to be a separate step where you have to choose a list of units to build from as there are a ton of unique units across SW, BA, DA, & BT. 

 

Now its possible they got lazy and SW, BA, DA, & BT just get OoM and you select them as an army but I feel this is far from guaranteed. Hopefully it'll leak soon and the mystery will be resolved.

 

I suspect they dropped the SW, BA, DA, & BT reveals because they realized that in 26 armies in their graphic 12 are imperium and so to keep the balance they dropped some from reveals. 

[lonewolf81]

I think (i am not sure) that this image includes the armies that will get index cards
From WarCom : "The Index Cards released at the dawn of the new edition will each come with one Detachment, representing a common fighting style for a particular faction, and more will emerge as new Codexes arrive and armies expand"  If you combine this with the response for the faction focus preview , all we get is a detachment from the start of the edition (index) which is better than nothing :)

Edited May 18, 2023 by lonewolf81

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Could be, I just wish they would quit being cagey about it and just say. Especially if we don't get a faction focus article.

[Valerian]

I think there is some confusion here on how some of this is going to work.  Of course, maybe I'm the one that is confused, but here is my interpretation based on my reading of the WarCom releases so far.

 

After selecting the Battle Size and then figuring out how you're going to write down your Army Roster, you Choose a Faction.  This is the step that decides your Faction keyword, which for us should be Space Wolves.  From that point, we should be able to select any Datasheet that contains the Space Wolves keyword.  With the only restriction that you can't select the same Datasheet more than 3 times, unless it also has the Battleline keyword. 

 

After the Choose a Faction step, the next step is to  Select Detachment Rules.  These Detachment rules ought not have anything to do with what Datasheets you can select from, as those were determined in the previous step.  Instead, your Detachment rules give you specific Special Abilities, Enhancements, Stratagems, and perhaps Unit Restrictions.  

 

For instance, at the start of 10th edition, before the first codex is released, an Adeptus Astartes faction will get the Oath of Moment army rule.  While the starting Gladius Task Force detachment will grant the Combat Doctrines special ability, four exclusive Enhancements, and six unique Stratagems.

 

If you chose to fight with a different Detachment, you'd replace Combat Doctrines and the Stratagems, and Enhancements with those of the new Detachment.

 

They also have told us that Detachment choice will very rarely be tied to an army color scheme.  And this makes a lot of sense, because our unit datasheets are not dictated by the Detachment that we select in Step 4, but rather by the Faction that that we have chosen in Step 3.

 

To make their work a whole lot easier here at the beginning of 10th edition, GW has said that the Gladius Task Force Detachment is going to be available to every Space Marine Chapter, whether they're adherents of the Codex Astartes (and will be covered in the new Codex Space Marines that will be released a few months into the new edition), or are slightly more eccentric (cough, cough, Space Wolves).

 

So, the way I interpret this is that the Codex-compliant Chapters, like Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, and so on, are all considered a single Faction, and are therefore covered by the same Codex.  While the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels are all going to be considered different Factions, and therefore will be covered by their own unique Index, and later their own unique Codex.  However, despite all being considered different Factions, they are all going to have access to a shared Army Rule (Oath of Moment), as well as a commonly available Detachment (Gladius Strike Force).  This shared Detachment Rule will work, because each of the unit datacards in each of these different Factions will have the shared 'Adeptus Astartes' Faction Keyword, in addition to their '<Chapter>' Faction Keyword.  

 

Interestingly, we've also been told that the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels are all going get their own unique Detachment rules, (in addition to the Gladius Strike Force).  My hope and expectation is that at least one of those will be available for each of the Codex non-compliant Chapters right at the start of 10th edition with the initial Index, and that we'll later get several additional Detachment choices when the Codex eventually drops.

 

If you think I've missed something and am way off-base let me know.  My sources for this were the following articles on Warhammer Community:

 

How Army Building Works.

Faction Rules are Leaner and Cleaner.

Faction Focus: Space Marines.

 

 

 

 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I think you are prettmuch on target Val, the only thing I haven't seen any actual reveal or evidence beyond speculation is the following: 

1 hour ago, Valerian said:

However, despite all being considered different Factions, they are all going to have access to a shared Army Rule (Oath of Moment),

 

Definitely see it as a possible scenario, but unless I missed something  this has yet to be addressed from GW.

 

Otherwise I think your post is spot on, and a great summary overall.