Horus Heresy Sicarian Venator and cerebus heavy tank destroyer.

[Matcap86]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:02 PM, Majkhel said:

Do I see sculpted Eye of Horus on it? Would that be Legion specific vehicle upgrade sprues incoming?

I believe those are part of the regular Spartan sprues.

 

Edit: Yup looked it up. They're on this sprue: 

Edited January 29, 2023 by matcap86

[Lord Marshal]

10 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

There's a few people that show up in the news and rumor threads for 30k just to counter-complain the vehicle focus release.

 

As opposed to every single Heresy Thursday or other reveal being filled up by a chorus "where are my Despoilers/Assault Marines?" every single week by the same people? 

 

I don't even disagree there should be Despoiler/Assault kits coming down the pipeline soon. I'm just tired of - be that here, Discord, Facebook, wherever - the constant bemoaning anything new which aren't them, and a good number of people acting like 30k is going to die because a few Blood Angels and World Eaters players need them now. I'm all for bitching about stuff, I do it all the time, but it's repetitive enough to suck the energy out of most new reveal discussions when much of it devolves into some variation of "where Despoilers?" so often.

 

10 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I had someone tell me in the another thread that having to spend £121 on a resin Typhon was more discouraging to list building and investment morale than £169 for 20 resin despoilers. 

 

Because I bet that most people are going to be content with their 40 AoD beakies for a good while. When a Despoiler kit inevitably comes out, I reckon most World Eaters and Blood Angels players you see will still running mostly Tacticals for that reason. The difference between a Despoiler and a Tactical Marine on the tabletop aren't that great, and worst case scenario you can either convert or 3D print bits for them without much difficulty. 

 

Whereas if you want a Typhon, a Leviathan, a Scorpius, Jetbikes... you were kind of stuck waiting for the plastics, or were stuck buying the resin kit, vehicles which comprise the majority of your army's points unless you were an outlier running 300 infantry down the table.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[SkimaskMohawk]

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

As opposed to every single Heresy Thursday or other reveal being filled up by a chorus "where are my Despoilers/Assault Marines?" every single week by the same people?

 

Its almost like we play the game and have a vested interest in being able to make diverse and affordable armies. We know what actually makes up a list, and how many legions are going to be affected by each release; it's why the jetbike preview met high acclaim, and why a cascade of tanks and superheavies don't.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

I'm just tired of - be that here, Discord, Facebook, wherever - the constant bemoaning anything new which aren't them

 

Maybe that should clue you in to it being a legitimate issue. Widespread frustration across all of social media from people who want to build their armies in plastic. For sane prices.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

A good number of people acting like 30k is going to die because a few Blood Angels and World Eaters players need them now.

 

30k isn't going to die, but new people's enthusiasm for an assault army they can't make will. It's cute how you framed it as a minority of blood angels and world eaters when so many legions are melee focussed with their rules. The majority of legions can leverage despoilers better than tacs at the end of the day:

 

Spoiler

• Dark angels with deathwing
• Emperor's children 
• White scars
• Space wolves
• Night lords
• Blood angels 
• World Eaters 
• Thousand sons with pavoni
• Sons of Horus 
• Word bearers 
• Salamanders (to at least convert some exemplary battle unit out of and do the hammer and anvil style of list)

 

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

Because I bet that most people are going to be content with their 40 AoD beakies for a good while

 

Unless they want actual assault troops, that match the scale and aesthetics of those new beakies. You know, for all those legions I just mentioned.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

When a Despoiler kit inevitably comes out, I reckon most World Eaters and Blood Angels players you see will still running mostly Tacticals for that reason.

 

Lol, no. 

 

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

The difference between a Despoiler and a Tactical Marine on the tabletop aren't that great

 

The differences are enough.Theyre distinct units that fill different roles in a list; you wouldn't bring despoilers over tacs in an imperial fists list, and you certainly wouldn't bring tacs over despoilers in space wolves.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

worst case scenario you can either convert or 3D print bits for them without much difficulty. 

 

Bits sites have been wildly unreliable due to demand. 3d printing makes the entire plastic cycle moot; you can print any model and weapon you want, for cheaper, right now. 

 

5 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

Whereas if you want a Typhon, a Leviathan, a Scorpius,... you were kind of stuck waiting for the plastics, or were stuck buying the resin kit, vehicles which comprise the majority of your army's points unless you were an outlier running 300 infantry down the table.

 

No one complained the jetbikes got released, because they were the most egregious example of resin pricing, so I'm just going to take that out.

 

The main difference is that if you wanted tanks to go with the new plastic launch box, you could get tanks that fit in with the aesthetic you could at least still buy them from forgeworld, or at the very least get the 40k kits. If you wanted infantry, you had no alternatives because the scale was markedly off and the pattern of armour is distinct enough, and you payed completely through the nose on top of that. 

 

And what nonsense world are we in where vehicles comprise most of people's points in 2nd? Vehicles are trash in 2nd, the only good one being the Scorpius, and it caps out at 225 per unit of 2. 

 

Just all around nonsensical take.

[aura_enchanted]

it would be nice to see a made to order for the excelsior pack

[tinpact]

I think this is getting out of hand, but yes, the vehicle argument is mostly disingenuous. The biggest point sinks in list building are elite units.

 

Beside the fact, all the core units for an armored list were out by fall, sans the Sicaran variants and the laser vindicator.

 

Might be they're saving up for a battleforce-type box, but who knows when that would be with 40k 10th coming out. Or, it might come up in a few Thursdays - who knows?

 

AoS has a bunch of releases in the spring, so hopefully they can squeeze a kit or two in there. I expect jetbikes to be in there after the Typhon/Cerberus.

Edited January 29, 2023 by tinpact

[Karhedron]

I would have thought the arms from the 40K assault squads would work OK on the new Beakies. Most people load up with heavy weapons so getting bolt pistol and chainsword arms isn't hard.

[OttoVonAwesome]

42 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

I would have thought the arms from the 40K assault squads would work OK on the new Beakies. Most people load up with heavy weapons so getting bolt pistol and chainsword arms isn't hard.

Arms and hands are quite a bit slimmer on the mk 6 set by design as well as having different elbow plates alltogether. Sure you can stick em on there no problem but they won't look quite right and then there's the fact that you now have godwyn pattern pistols instead of Umbra wich is def not gonna do it for the lore junkies and 3 out of every 5 of your guys is in a squatting pose.

 

Now there are a few good 3-d printed options but if your anything like me you want to keep your print cycles dedicated to things you can't buy like properly scaled marines of other marks and whatnot and you still end up with the 3 in 5 of your guys looking constipated and wondering what dynamic poses a despoiler/assault kit would have that will lend much needed diversity to the 5 body poses we are currently stuck with compared to the 20-50 I have for the other marks so you end up constantly asking yo GW where's the despoilers at daddy wants more beakies. But that's just me and I'm an obsessive wierdo.

[Fire Golem]

On 1/29/2023 at 12:31 AM, Mandragola said:

 

 

For one thing, it seems to me that they could produce some of the infantry kits we need far more easily than some of these tanks. Despoilers and breachers would only need to be a sprue each, for example, like the special/heavy weapon sets we already have.

FWIW I’d rather wait a bit longer and have it so that every infantry unit in the army doesn’t share the same 5 bodies. 

[Cleon]

While the discussion of what infantry is needed probably deserves it's own thread in the HH forum, I'm going to throw one comment in and suggest that the breachers probably could/should be an upgrade for the bolter bodies, but a similar 'dual kit' bodies sprue for assault marines and despoilers would be needed (minimum) - switching up the way the bodies are cut so the back of the torso is on the (more dynamic) legs and the front is separate peice would then let them have a 'strapped in' frontplate on the jump pack sprue.

[Marshal Mittens]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/09/sunday-preview-the-lion-awakens-for-the-cataclysmic-arks-of-omen-finale/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=gw_9th_april_preview_eng_&utm_content=&utm_term=

 

 

 

About to be on pre-order?

Edited April 9, 2023 by Marshal Mittens

[Orange Knight]

I imagine they'll be on pre-order next week for release on the 22nd?

[Mr Farson]

I'm surprised they didn't hold these until the siege of cthonia book drops to coincide with the decurion.

[Orange Knight]

24 minutes ago, Mr Farson said:

I'm surprised they didn't hold these until the siege of cthonia book drops to coincide with the decurion.

 

I have a feeling they'll reveal some new kits at Warhammer Fest for 30k.

[01RTB01]

Sicaran ;)

 

 

1 hour ago, Marshal Mittens said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/09/sunday-preview-the-lion-awakens-for-the-cataclysmic-arks-of-omen-finale/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=gw_9th_april_preview_eng_&utm_content=&utm_term=

 

 

 

About to be on pre-order?

Yes. Pre order this coming Saturday and released the week after.

[Vassakov]

Finally. Now to see how many Venators is too many...

[Xenith]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:47 PM, Vassakov said:

Finally. Now to see how many Venators is too many...

 

11 is too many, you can take 6 in a crusade force org, + 4 more in an allied detachment. 

 

Finally these guys are on release, just ordered a typhn as I had no idea when they would be out, looks like it's getting swapped! 

[eyedrops]

On 1/29/2023 at 11:32 AM, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Its almost like we play the game and have a vested interest in being able to make diverse and affordable armies. We know what actually makes up a list, and how many legions are going to be affected by each release; it's why the jetbike preview met high acclaim, and why a cascade of tanks and superheavies don't.

 

 

Maybe that should clue you in to it being a legitimate issue. Widespread frustration across all of social media from people who want to build their armies in plastic. For sane prices.

 

 

30k isn't going to die, but new people's enthusiasm for an assault army they can't make will. It's cute how you framed it as a minority of blood angels and world eaters when so many legions are melee focussed with their rules. The majority of legions can leverage despoilers better than tacs at the end of the day:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

• Dark angels with deathwing
• Emperor's children 
• White scars
• Space wolves
• Night lords
• Blood angels 
• World Eaters 
• Thousand sons with pavoni
• Sons of Horus 
• Word bearers 
• Salamanders (to at least convert some exemplary battle unit out of and do the hammer and anvil style of list)

 

 

Unless they want actual assault troops, that match the scale and aesthetics of those new beakies. You know, for all those legions I just mentioned.

 

 

Lol, no. 

 

 

The differences are enough.Theyre distinct units that fill different roles in a list; you wouldn't bring despoilers over tacs in an imperial fists list, and you certainly wouldn't bring tacs over despoilers in space wolves.

 

 

Bits sites have been wildly unreliable due to demand. 3d printing makes the entire plastic cycle moot; you can print any model and weapon you want, for cheaper, right now. 

 

 

No one complained the jetbikes got released, because they were the most egregious example of resin pricing, so I'm just going to take that out.

 

The main difference is that if you wanted tanks to go with the new plastic launch box, you could get tanks that fit in with the aesthetic you could at least still buy them from forgeworld, or at the very least get the 40k kits. If you wanted infantry, you had no alternatives because the scale was markedly off and the pattern of armour is distinct enough, and you payed completely through the nose on top of that. 

 

And what nonsense world are we in where vehicles comprise most of people's points in 2nd? Vehicles are trash in 2nd, the only good one being the Scorpius, and it caps out at 225 per unit of 2. 

 

Just all around nonsensical take.

Exactly what you said. I'll never understand defending the company that :cuss:s all over its customers on a monthly basis also hilarious how they all argue the same points like robots 

Edited April 11, 2023 by eyedrops

[Mandragola]

These are both great vehicles and I’m pleased to see them get plastic releases. I’d like a couple of Venators for my Ravens, for whom they’d make a good option for the one HS choice I get to bring with my RoW. They can quite reliably shut down a LoW or kill things like Spartans, while spitting out a respectable amount of fire against things like dreads and heavy infantry. I don’t know if I’ll always use them, so having them available in plastic is preferable to paying resin prices - which I probably wouldn’t have done. 
 

So here’s my theory on the tank/infantry thing: they already designed all the tanks, which are designed as modular kits, and are trickling them out. That part makes sense and is actually good design. It isn’t really related to the issue of their failure to design infantry, which is idiotic.

 

They made a choice when they designed the mk6 sprue (a single, half-size sprue, remember) to prioritise volume over flexibility. So it isn’t compatible with all their old guns and upgrade sets and new ones had to be released. Then they produced gold upgrade sets for heavy and special weapons, which is nice. And then, bizarrely, they stopped. The other troops were never planned for in plastic and so weren’t ever designed. 
 

I don’t know what the lead-time is for plastic kits but I gather it’s pretty long. Designers won’t just be sat around - their time will be blocked out for other projects long in advance. So we have to wait for them to be available to even start the work. 
 

What this means is that GW aren’t deciding to mess us about every week. I’m sure they’d love to bring us out the infantry we need, but it’s not that simple. 
 

This mistake is a threat to the long-term survival of 30K, and not the only one. Some armies are ludicrously more expensive to build right now than others. But also the rules are frankly not as good as they could and should be. They’re laid out appallingly, there are basic errors that we still haven’t had FAQs for and there doesn’t seem to have been any attempt to get balance between forces. I love the setting and the game is quite fun, but there are many, many better playing experiences available, from GW and elsewhere. 
 

But the real looming threat to 30k is the new 40K. The launch of 30k came at a “good” time in that 40K is (in many people’s opinion) pretty dreadful right now. But the new version might be good. If it is, players will migrate back. 30k won’t die but lots of people, myself probably included, will choose to play a system with a full plastic range and proper rules support. 
 

So I’m not sure if I’ll bother with those Venators. Maybe, if I see some for a good price at Salute. 

[skylerboodie]

17 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

The other troops were never planned for in plastic and so weren’t ever designed.

 

According to Valrak's source, the Mk II and Mk V infantry designs "are done", just awaiting GW to decide as and when they'll release them. Presumably at least one in the next big boxed release

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

So here’s my theory on the tank/infantry thing: they already designed all the tanks, which are designed as modular kits, and are trickling them out. That part makes sense and is actually good design. It isn’t really related to the issue of their failure to design infantry, which is idiotic.

 

I think they pumped out all the tanks for the new decurion. It's value is as only as good as the tanks you can get, and he makes all those tanks more appealing. If only that appeal measured up to dreads, javs and HSS.

 

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

This mistake is a threat to the long-term survival of 30K, and not the only one. Some armies are ludicrously more expensive to build right now than others. But also the rules are frankly not as good as they could and should be. They’re laid out appallingly, there are basic errors that we still haven’t had FAQs for and there doesn’t seem to have been any attempt to get balance between forces.

 

The vibe is that they wrote a new edition to drive excitement and churn for their new model release, not to renew the games balance. It's really disappointing; I have a lot of issues with 2nd, but they could have all been fixed by proper FAQ support. The edition is nearing its first birthday and we've had relatively nothing. I guess it's because theyre still writing exemplary battles, militia and daemon rules?

[Xenith]

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

So here’s my theory on the tank/infantry thing: they already designed all the tanks, which are designed as modular kits, and are trickling them out. That part makes sense and is actually good design. It isn’t really related to the issue of their failure to design infantry, which is idiotic.

 

 The other troops were never planned for in plastic and so weren’t ever designed. 

 

Personally I think they're getting all the tanks out ASAP so they can shut down entire resin production lines and save FW shelf space. I can only assume the big tanks with lots of long flat pieces have dreadful QA/QC and there must be a lot of waste, not to mention being heavy, voluminous, bespokely checked and packed, etc. The smaller resin infantry are less likely to have faults/be warped, or can be made more en-masse. 

 

I do think not releasing the 4 core troop units in plastic at once was a mistake, but to be honest, the pace of releases is higher than it has ever been, but you're right on the customer retention aspect. However I don't think GW cares so much about self-cannibalism - it's probably part of their model that people switch to new HH when they get bored of 40K bloat and vice versa. 

[Marshal Mittens]

A resin $200 tank takes up a lot more space and effort/material to produce than a $110 5 man squad, or single $54 character, for sure. Also I think a lot of people, myself included, have been burned badly by the quality or lack there of from large FW kits. I am very happy to have all the Space Marine tanks in plastic; hopefully we see them in the 40k Codex too. 

 

For what it's worth, I have personally not bought a big Forgeworld Kit in about 10 years, but I have like 6 Spartans, 2 Sicarans, 2 Kratos and soon some typhons, Cerebuses, jet bikes, and sicarian venators. I love the kits in plastic, but would never buy them in Resin. I think a LOT of people are in the same boat. The kits have been selling out faster than GW can make them. 

[Mandragola]

I do agree that the plastic tanks have opened up possibilities. I haven’t bought any resin vehicles since the new edition landed but I might get some of these plastic ones.

 

nobody is saying the plastic tanks are a bad thing. They’re great. It’s just a shame the infantry line is not so great. 

[Xenith]

So the question is, with these tanks, and indeed any in the HH line where Force Org Slots are at a premium, is it better to get one or two?!

[Cleon]

50 minutes ago, Xenith said:

So the question is, with these tanks, and indeed any in the HH line where Force Org Slots are at a premium, is it better to get one or two?!

I mean it's always better to have more tanks... but I think it comes down to personal preference (and budget/storage space) Persoanlly I draw the line between the Predator, which I don't think is always worth a slot on it's own and the Sicarian Chassis which I think generally are.