Wh40k 10th Edition Leaders Joining Squads

[BrainFireBob]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

 

 

 

 

I think this is where we see the list-design balancing act. The best way to take advantage of Tactical Precision is to have a full size unit. A full size unit is more vulnerable/valuable as a target to Blast weapons and abilities like Oath of Moment. Then there's the weapon options/points to consider. The best unit for Tactical Precision (from what we know right now) would be Hellblasters with Assault Plasma Incinerators. They're the lowest Strength Incinerator (in a world of increased vehicle and knight Toughness) which doesn't matter because fishing for sixes with volume of fire, but they'll definitely be the best AP option compared to weapons from the other units listed. Hellblasters are also going to probably be the most points-expensive unit out of the units listed so there's the trade off if someone decided to try to nuke the unit. 

 

 

I'd assume for balance reasons if they're still capable of Indirect Fire, though it may have to do with visual aesthetics.

 

 

 

The good news is there's no more competing for limited Elite slots. The bad news is that unless GW repackages them in a single box, they're going to be separate data slates. Of course, should they release a Primaris Champion, that would be an opportunity to do so. At the moment, I don't think GW even sells Firstborn Ancients and Apothecaries outside Chapter-specific kits (Deathwing Command Squad, Ravenwing Command Squad, Sanguinary Ancient in Sanguinary Guard). That's just in terms of data slates/kits. If you meant, will those three all be able to join the same squad? Who knows, but I could see Company Veterans (the current Command Squad equivalent) getting a special rule letting it happen. Definitely easier to balance around three specific characters joining one specific unit than them being able to all join (m)any unit(s).

 

 

I would assume any power removed from characters will be redistributed into Faction, Detachment, or other units. I could even see taking power from characters to somewhere else specifically to aid armies where the characters will be harder to protect. For example, making the effect of Control Edict the native effect of a Data-Tether rule on the data slate of all Skitarii units which can currently take Data-Tethers. Of course, I'd also assume Doctrina Imperatives will get an overhaul.

The command squad set

[jaxom]

@BrainFireBob thank you, as it caused me to do a more general search. Fun fact, Command Squad gets no search returns for space marines because at some point when I wasn't looking they changed it to Company Command.

[arnesh88]

This is something I'm excited for. I always preferred that characters are attached to units and "spread out" instead of all huddled into one squad. The all-characters-wandering-around-on-their-own wasn't a deal breaker for me in 8th/9th, but it always felt weird to me.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

I'm more receptive to this than the whole detachment rules/enhancements system, but nonetheless it has the potential to be rather limiting. Curious as to how they'll handle chapter-agnostic HQ's joining chapter specific units like Sword Brethren or Crusader Squads; Presumably, there won't be a Primaris Captain datasheet and a Primaris Marshal datasheet? Then again who knows. Maybe we're going back to standalone codexes for divergent chapters like 7th Ed, complete with duplicate unit listing for all of the vanilla SM units.

 

Obviously the sensible thing to do would be the inclusion of an endnote allowing such a thing, but it's not impossible that there might not be such a thing in the initial batch of downloadable rules at launch due to oversight. if there was such an oversight, in my opinion anyone worth playing with would allow a power armor chaplain or something to join a squad of sword brethren even if it wasn't listed among the joinable units, but I know that when gaming with strangers many prefer not to deviate whatsoever from the printed rules.

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Mmmmm Napalm

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

57 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I suspect Assault Marines may be split to two datasheets, one with a junp pack and one without.

 

Would certainly make the rules writing simpler.

Please no. No more datasheets for the same units.

[WrathOfTheLion]

13 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Please no. No more datasheets for the same units.

Depends on if they have conditional joining for units, might be there's a way to do it based on taking a jump pack or not.

 

I'd prefer them to keep the datasheets the same, but I'm speculating based on how their mechanic works as currently presented.

[DesuVult]

USRs coming back, stratagems turning into reactions, characters joining squads, more primarch models.

 

Yeah, it's HH time.

[jaxom]

22 minutes ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

Curious as to how they'll handle chapter-agnostic HQ's joining chapter specific units like Sword Brethren or Crusader Squads; Presumably, there won't be a Primaris Captain datasheet and a Primaris Marshal datasheet? *SNIP*

 

Obviously the sensible thing to do would be the inclusion of an endnote allowing such a thing

 

 

I feel like I'm missing something, but isn't this what they currently do? Core Codex has the little notes that some units have certain keywords if they're from certain chapters (Wolf Guard for Space Wolf Lts, Deathwing for Dark Angel Capts, etc) and additional wargear options are listed either there or in the supplement (like the Black Templar supplement had additional wargear for their Lts because of the new "Castallen" model). Or is it more concern because we haven't seen Chapter tags on the one data sheet (Terminators) so if there's no place for Chapter on generic units, but there is on Chapter specific uniques, etc? I'd assume that whatever ends up including Chapter specific units will also include a list of which generic Leader units can join the unique units.

 

14 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Please no. No more datasheets for the same units.

 

Considering the jump packs currently add or change 3 things (Deep Strike, Movement 12", and FLY), they might. On the other hand (and I don't really expect this), having just Assault Intercessors with expanded weapon options, so Firstborn Assault Squads w/out jumppacks are just Assault Intercessors, and then Assault Squad covers any Marine with a jumppack would future-proof the release of basic Primaris jumppack unit (assuming they don't have crazy weapons).

[Craig]

I wonder how they will handle characters joining units with different movement values. Use whichever is lower? The catacomb command barge datasheet will be interesting to see.

[WrathOfTheLion]

If they're smart, they'll preempt it by only enumerating units with equivalent movement characteristics on the character's datasheet.

[Noserenda]

I figure faction specific units will just have a note saying they count as X regular unit for leaders.

[Shinespider]

6 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

BTW, I do not have it clear: Shall the Leaders join units from a mandatory point of view or can they stay Loners too? 

 

I don't think they say, but since protection from shooting is conferred only by the Lone Operative rule, running models without that rule by themselves is probably suicidal. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

=][= This isn't the topic to start with Primaris Vs Firstborn. The Adeptus Astartes forum would be a better fit =][=

[Lemondish]

With this, I think the theories surrounding what [Precision] does are correct. Specifically that it would allow you, the attacker, to select who takes the wounds in the target unit.

 

I personally cannot wait to see the indexes. So many interesting things coming. So many interesting ways they can go.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

4 hours ago, Aramis K said:

The list of units the lieutenant can join is alphabetical, so one of the redacted units has a name between He and In

 

So I recon the flamer squad are the Hellfuries mentioned in the past. Hell as a prefix for special weapon squads.

 

"Incinerator Squad" fits as well. That was a name Valrak's source dropped for the flamer unit.

 

As for the naming convention, the Melta squad aren't "Hellradicators."

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Lord Nord

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

14 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

With this, I think the theories surrounding what [Precision] does are correct. Specifically that it would allow you, the attacker, to select who takes the wounds in the target unit.

 

I personally cannot wait to see the indexes. So many interesting things coming. So many interesting ways they can go.

Agreed. I haven't seen anything previewed that I haven't wanted to try. About the only negative is that I had hoped auto wounding was going to, if not vanish, at least be vastly reduced. That doesn't seem to be the case, though perhaps it will be a lot more limited.

 

Guard will be the true test there, as Guard is the only army in which it's been actively broken.

[Marshal Reinhard]

20 man crusader squads will be interesting with joined characters

[blue_raptor55]

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Pretty sure valrak shared it as a rumor he heard.

 

I don't consider Valrak a credible source per se. He gets credible information from time to time, but he also wishlists, shares plenty that isn't true, or things that have such a long timeline that of course they'll inevitably come to pass. Of course we're dealing with rumours so everyone's free to set their standards where they like; that's just my two cents.

[Lemondish]

18 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

20 man crusader squads will be interesting with joined characters

I wonder if this would be the type of squad that could only be joined with like, a Chaplain or Ancient.

 

We've seen what looks to be, at least to me, an eye toward balance with this. Yes, auto wounding on sixes is pretty powerful, but we're also doing it with units whose arsenal does not exceed one to two damage on these weapons (with one rarely seen exception, and I admit we don't yet know what's happening with the new veterans). For instance, this lieutenant cannot join a Desolator squad, which is fantastic because you can just imagine how overbearing a unit with indirect fire and that much direct damage would be with this effect.

 

So large units, ones that you want to maximize the buffs you give to them, they'll probably have a lot more limitations on who gets to join them. Perhaps at first anyway.

[KnightofSigismund]

26 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

20 man crusader squads will be interesting with joined characters

I am so ready for that!

[Wispy]

I like a character being only able to embed in certain kind of units. Gives you a reason to have multiple Lts, Captain, and Chaplains in different loadouts. Always felt weird to stick a character in a jump pack or bike just so he could micromanage 5 different squads at once.

 

[Lysimachus]

Based on the 10th trailer where the Apothecary is working alone, I wonder if they will be Lone Operatives and be able to move around assisting different squads?

 

Maybe that's reading too much into the trailer, though.

[DesuVult]

Would be nice if WE could use the character in squad mechanic.

[ChargingSoll]

With the return of characters joining units and the reform of the detachment for unit limits. I hope to see more characters spread throughout armies. 

 

Always love to see company standards, chaplains, Techmarines and librarians about in the armies. 

[Triszin]

Oh look.

 

Everyone gets a wolf guard pack leader.

 

XD