Wh40k 10th Edition Leaders Joining Squads

[Sea Creature]

1 hour ago, brother_b said:

I'm a little meh with this, especially having a new GSC army I'm starting. I always felt that characters, protected by their throngs of troops, was a really cool part of the game. You still had to be wary of snipers, etc, but you could "lead" multiple units forward.

 

I fear change of things I love in my hobby, I'll readily admit that. So I'm making a concerted effort to being positive! So let's go leaders in units! 

I can imagine Inceptors dropping in so they can soak Xenos HQ.

[redmapa]

I dont think IG will change much in terms of how their characters are deployed, right now Castellans and Command squads act independently and that will translate into Lone Wolves and the rest will just join infantry squads just like now  you have Commissars close by to an infantry squad or in the same transport.

 

 

[Lemondish]

3 hours ago, Cruor Vault said:

 

It always winds up being that more boots is better than a limited buff.  I'll bet when 10th drops people will rush to include a whole bunch of characters, but by the time the edition is 6 months old it will have dialed back to 1-2 characters and more warm bodies.

It's the way of things.

 

I do think the Veteran units will almost always get a character added to them but I'm not thinking we'll often see a Lieutenant commanding an Intercessor squad. You want to maximize the impact, so large squads seem the goal, and If the points costs are anywhere close to where they are today you'd be most of the way to a second 5 man squad for the cost of a Lieutenant.

 

Then there's the transport for protection to consider. Things like Terminators have built-in deep strike for delivering themselves when and where you want them, and more crucially, protecting them so they arrive intact. They will likely make up the largest piece of the Marine character 'meta' alongside whatever powerful lone operatives there are. Depending on how transports and vehicles behave this edition the Bladeguard and new Primaris Sternguard cosplayers will likely be prime candidates for a few boosts as well. Everything else just seems like a fluffy option, but a waste otherwise.

 

Xenos will definitely have some interesting options I feel.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Lemondish

[FarFromSam]

I'm a fan of independent characters as it removes some schnanigans that come with the current system.  And it's nice that they are trying to address some of the deathstar abuses we saw years ago, but at the same time these lists seem counter to the simplified, one page rule sheet at the table goal they set for themselves.   

 

Hopefully they use these rules to enforce fluff,  and not arbitrarily stop fun combinations.  

 

 

[Halandaar]

16 minutes ago, farfromsam said:

but at the same time these lists seem counter to the simplified, one page rule sheet at the table goal they set for themselves.   

 

The list of joinable units is on the character's datasheet / unit card, so no matter how many characters you have in play that wouldn't make any difference to the amount of text on your two pages of army rules.

[Urkh]

14 minutes ago, farfromsam said:

... but at the same time these lists seem counter to the simplified, one page rule sheet at the table goal they set for themselves.

 

 

 

I think with all the rules for who they can be attached to and how they buff them being on the data card, you shouldn't have to flip too much between rules pages. I would personally make sure the card for my characters is next to the card for the unit they are attached to. 

 

I feel most of the page flipping will be in the BRB, not the codex, as people have to look up rules interactions as odd things happen on the tabletop, or to remember exactly what a USR does.

[Schlitzaf]

I am disappointed, it just means elite murder units will get chars and that you have little reason to have captains and chars running with tour troops. 

[ZeroWolf]

4 minutes ago, Schlitzaf said:

I am disappointed, it just means elite murder units will get chars and that you have little reason to have captains and chars running with tour troops. 

But wouldn't the elite murder units be hanging with characters anyway in the fluff? Calgar hangs with the honour guard, Abaddon with Chosen terminators etc etc.

[Orange Knight]

In fairness we don't know how the general game will look.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that heroes like the Lord Solar will still be great in the new edition.

 

We've only seen how some Marine and Tau characters work thus far, really.

[redmapa]

1 hour ago, Schlitzaf said:

I am disappointed, it just means elite murder units will get chars and that you have little reason to have captains and chars running with tour troops. 

 

But that already happens now, you want your killier units to be buffed by auras and your troops can scatter to the objectives and if they're in range of a buff cool but intercessors or infiltrators aren't doing the heavy lifting currently. As for the future, I can already see a 20 man crusader squad with Helbrecht and a Castellan being a decent cheap brick of a unit, so there will definitely be Troops you'd like to buff, Tyranid Warriors might also be a great troop to stack buffs on.

[Orange Knight]

In effect the biggest change is that character abilities will be limited to a single squad they join.

 

The Guard are an interesting discussion point. It's entirely possible that their characters could have rules similar to a lone operative allowing them to use vehicles and larger units as cover.

 

Edit: Lone Operative, NOT loan operative. The guard aren't coming to collect debts lol

Edited April 12, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Nephaston]

For Guard, who have the Faction ability just called "Orders" I can almost imagine radio shenanigans to ensure their abilities get spread further so they won't risk their characters.

 

And regarding Abaddon; through the lens of 9th, embedding him in a terminator brick of course seems dreadfully OP, but let's not forget that damage gates might not see the light of the next edition.

[Lemondish]

1 hour ago, farfromsam said:

...but at the same time these lists seem counter to the simplified, one page rule sheet at the table goal they set for themselves...

I had always understood this to be specific to faction rules. As in, a person playing in 9th edition may have needed their main codex, a separate supplement, and potentially a separate whole set of rules derived from one of the war zone books just to function, and more was added on in the form of FAQs, the balance dataslate, and errata.

 

I never took it to mean that the game's ruleset would be limited to one page.

 

1 hour ago, Schlitzaf said:

I am disappointed, it just means elite murder units will get chars and that you have little reason to have captains and chars running with tour troops. 

I expect this to be the case, yes. There would be little reason to include a Lieutenant in a squad of Intercessors if you could include one in your Bladeguard Veterans.

Unless you wanted to. I mean, nothing stops you from doing that. Hell, I play Deathwatch, one of the worst performing armies in the game today, so I'm no stranger to picking inefficient options because of personal preference

Edited April 12, 2023 by Lemondish

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Edit: Lone Operative, NOT loan operative. The guard aren't coming to collect debts lol

 

Votann got you covered there.

[Mr. Oddity]

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

I expect this to be the case, yes. There would be little reason to include a Lieutenant in a squad of Intercessors if you could include one in your Bladeguard Veterans.

Unless you wanted to. I mean, nothing stops you from doing that. Hell, I play Deathwatch, one of the worst performing armies in the game today, so I'm no stranger to picking inefficient options because of personal preference

While not the most efficient, a Lieutenant in with some Stalker Intercessors could do some respectable chip damage to most targets with the 2D shots. I'm actually considering doing a few extra "veteran sergeant" models to fill this kind of role now given the variety of units we can presumably attach characters to!

 

For the current marine HQ lineup at large, I'm going to guess that all characters except for techmarines, apothecaries, and the bike chaplain will be attached to units. Chaplains and Librarians have historically been good at buffing singular squads (psychic fortress notwithstanding), and the banner just feels like the kind of buff that would be restricted assuming it keeps its current effect. Just personal guesswork, of course.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 hours ago, redmapa said:

I dont think IG will change much in terms of how their characters are deployed, right now Castellans and Command squads act independently and that will translate into Lone Wolves and the rest will just join infantry squads just like now  you have Commissars close by to an infantry squad or in the same transport.

 

 

Command squads are already an officer in a squad, and we’ve been doing pretty good since we can add ogryn/bullgryn body guards and psykers.

[DesuVult]

I have a bad feeling how this will roll out for CSM and aligned legions.

[FarFromSam]

I do hope the characters can jump to other squads mid game as well.  Would be a bummer if they couldn't, or it may lead to fewer MSU armies.  Either way it'll be interesting. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I am curious now if the 1 captain per detachment rule will still stand.

[jimbo1701]

7 minutes ago, farfromsam said:

I do hope the characters can jump to other squads mid game as well.  Would be a bummer if they couldn't, or it may lead to fewer MSU armies.  Either way it'll be interesting. 

I think GW have pretty much said no squad hopping. What I am curious about, however, is if you can reattach a character to a different squad if they are last man standing. Wouldn’t make much sense for say, a SM captain, to remain out in the open not leading anyone if the squad he was leading have just been gunned down and a perfectly good squad is right next to him. 

[jaxom]

9 minutes ago, jimbo1701 said:

I think GW have pretty much said no squad hopping. What I am curious about, however, is if you can reattach a character to a different squad if they are last man standing. Wouldn’t make much sense for say, a SM captain, to remain out in the open not leading anyone if the squad he was leading have just been gunned down and a perfectly good squad is right next to him. 

Prediction: it will be a core stratagem to “re-home” a Leader.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 minute ago, jaxom said:

Prediction: it will be a core stratagem to “re-home” a Leader.

Please no more basic rules as stratagems.

[jaxom]

*Shrug* There’s a clear risk-reward of an eggs in one basket buffed unit now. I don’t see GW allowing a way around that for Leader units without some sort of cost.

[Khornestar]

34 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Prediction: it will be a core stratagem to “re-home” a Leader.

I can see that. Makes it so if you do want to bounce a leader around, can’t just do it with impunity.

[spessmarine]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:36 AM, Matrindur said:

Seems like the discussion last week that they might drop the Primaris keyword was wrong since he is still called Primaris Lieutenant here and can only join Primaris units.

 

Unfortunately still applicable in this case then

Though, maybe CSM will get segregated a bit too.

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by spessmarine