Wh40k 10th Edition Phases in 10th + Librarian & Weirdboy Datasheets + Battleshock

[CL_Mission]

28 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Is that part of a new model leaning in on the Thousand Sons side of the picture?

 

I think it's a conversion using some of  the terrain in this article

[redmapa]

Regarding the combiweapon it cant possibly have all those special rules at once, maybe you get one for whichever combi youre equipped with. Flamer gets anti infantry 4+, Melta gets devastating wounds and plasma is rapid fire.

[acrozatarim]

Again, though, there's no combi weapon on the model. GW has been busy stripping down unit options to match what's on the model, they're not going to randomly do the opposite just for an ETB monobuild model.

[Marshal Reinhard]

7 minutes ago, redmapa said:

Regarding the combiweapon it cant possibly have all those special rules at once, maybe you get one for whichever combi youre equipped with. Flamer gets anti infantry 4+, Melta gets devastating wounds and plasma is rapid fire.

You say that , but said rules are attached to a 4, 0, 1 weapon profile

5 minutes ago, acrozatarim said:

Again, though, there's no combi weapon on the model. GW has been busy stripping down unit options to match what's on the model, they're not going to randomly do the opposite just for an ETB monobuild model.

Why list it at all then? What exactly even is this mystery variant?

Edited April 18, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[DemonGSides]

10 minutes ago, Bloody Legionnaire said:

I think you missed the point entirely.. the past couple editions have emphasized “smite,” but consider all editions before that. Psykers had much more purpose offensively/defensively buffing/debuffing and not just being a “mind bullets” platform. 
 

What happens to BRB psychic powers? What happens to codex psychic powers? That’s the flavor that’s gone.

 

I think YOU missed the point entirely, because I addressed that.

You don't need a whole phase for "flavor".  Ever had a burrito and you take a bite and it's  JUST rice?  That's 9th ed psychic phase currently.

Spread the effects out throughout the game, and suddenly Magnus has the ability to manifest his foresight in the command phase, get Dragonball Z like Instant Transmission movement out of his movement phase, psychic mind bullets for shooting phase, bonuses to confer to his loyal sons for their charges, and then unleashing his massive psychic might in the fight phase.

Whereas right now, Magnus has to do all of that in a specific chunk of the game, which requires the opponent to just sit and twiddle most of the time.  That :cuss: sucks.

The flavor comes with them fleshing out the users, not applying "All Thousand Sons get access to 6 spells", which if you think about it beyond just "well 6 is relatively big number in WH!", it's relatively flavorless.  Each psyker is just a carbon copy of the other in the force.  Now they can at least give us some bespoke type units, kind of how Deathguard do their special characters.  Or make a Thousand Sons sorceror who is more melee focussed in his spells, without giving those same bonuses to a Thousand Sons psyker that's more ranged focussed, or buff focussed.

[Frogian]

12 minutes ago, redmapa said:

Regarding the combiweapon it cant possibly have all those special rules at once, maybe you get one for whichever combi youre equipped with. Flamer gets anti infantry 4+, Melta gets devastating wounds and plasma is rapid fire.

I think it will be all of them. The underlying weapon is just a bolter profile, so its still not going to do that much damage. At its best its 2 shots against infantry at 12", hitting on 4s and causing a single mortal wound on 4s. That's still just two damage. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Frogian

[phandaal]

24 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

But what was the flavor of smite before this change?  It's always just been "mind bullets" because they already bankrupted the flavor of such things with the removal of scatter and templates, so Psychic phase was just "Well my army has some weird :cuss:ed up mutants, but specifically weird :cuss:ed up mutants with big brains, therefore I get bonus phase and if you didn't bring your own big brained mutants, you don't get this phase."

 

This is basically what GW said as well:

 

Quote

For others – especially the T’au Empire and Necrons – it was often 10 minutes spent watching your opponent make a bunch of mysterious 2D6 rolls and remove models accordingly.

 

Which is exactly what people have been saying for years, so maybe GW did listen after all. The mortal wound firehose is only fun if you are not the one on the receiving end, and seemed very difficult to balance. This system already seems better, and no doubt GW will throw in some goodies for psyker-heavy armies.

 

Also, the weirdboy seems hilarious now. Exploding on death is the most Orky thing ever.

[Lemondish]

16 minutes ago, acrozatarim said:

Again, though, there's no combi weapon on the model. GW has been busy stripping down unit options to match what's on the model, they're not going to randomly do the opposite just for an ETB monobuild model.

But this is a unit that already exists. This isn't some fancy new Terminator unit. The datasheet must include the options that people can currently build from their own current collections, no?

 

And today, Librarians in Terminator armour can wield combi-weapons. Or, the assumption that it is an ETB monobuild model needs to be challenged.

 

Another thing we should be considering is whether this is a full look at the profile for combi-weapons or if they're intentionally holding back what the other half of those weapons are as a tease.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lemondish
Spellin'z

[LostTemplar]

13 minutes ago, acrozatarim said:

Again, though, there's no combi weapon on the model. GW has been busy stripping down unit options to match what's on the model, they're not going to randomly do the opposite just for an ETB monobuild model.

 

I am not sure the model is ETB. I have been looking at it and it does seem like the pads could he moulded separatly from the arms.

 

Also, GW sells other plastic librarians with combi weapons (like the Blood Angel one).

 

Lastly, maybe the combi weapon profile only refers to the bolter bit, since that sheet is incomplete in terms of available options to equip on the librarian.

 

 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I think YOU missed the point entirely, because I addressed that.

Snip

When did I say anything about phase?

 

I don’t care about phases nor do I think that was the point the guy who brought who brought up flavor was trying to make.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui
Derogatory comment removed

[WrathOfTheLion]

7 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

But this is a unit that already exists. This isn't some fancy new Terminator unit. The datasheet must include the options that people can currently build from their own current collections, no?

 

And today, Librarians in Terminator armour can wield combi-weapons. Or, the assumption that it is an ETB monobuild model needs to be challenged.

 

Another thing we should be considering is whether this is a full look at the profile for combi-weapons or if they're intentionally holding back what the other half of those weapons are as a tease.

Good point on existing models.

 

Guess combi weapons could just be like this then? Gone might be the days of plinking at tanks with Chosen Squads.

[Lemondish]

12 minutes ago, LostTemplar said:

Lastly, maybe the combi weapon profile only refers to the bolter bit, since that sheet is incomplete in terms of available options to equip on the librarian.

T'is what I'm thinking, and I'm choosing to take it as a hint at what the other combi-weapon profiles might be.

But, right now, they can equip combi weapons of grav, melta, flamer, and plasma flavours. We already saw that melta gets its own ability for weaponry and so do flamers, so unless we assume that not all melta weapons are powerful enough to benefit (and not all flamers are torrent?), then it becomes a stretch to extrapolate anything of value.

 

It could be that, in the interest of streamlining, combi-weapons are just one deadly profile now rather than an actual combination of two weapons. It's a small blessing because building your models with the wrong half of a combi-weapon for that edition/season/army was annoying, but at the same time the distinct profiles meant something and potentially losing that would be a bummer.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lemondish

[Kallas]

8 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

It could be that, in the interest of streamlining, combi-weapons are just one deadly profile now rather than an actual combination of two weapons.

This is what I expect to be the case. It certainly makes them simpler to model and use (10x Combi-weapons in a Sternguard squad can all roll together, regardess of what they're physically modeled with) but it does loses a bit of the choice. Meltas aren't Anti-Infantry weapons (sure, they'll melt any infantry they hit, but they're not made to be AI weapons) and Flamers aren't really much of an Anti-Vehicle weapon (which Devastating Wounds will enable, albeit in a very limited manner).

 

I'm a little torn on, because the various Combi options are essentially just limited Special weapons. I mean, I really hope they haven't condensed the various Special and Heavy weapons into "Special Weapons - 1x 6/-2/2 [Anti-Infantry 5+, Anti-Vehicle 5+]" or something like that. Meltas, Grav, Flamers and Plasma are pretty different, so hopefully this is just a change to Combis for some simplicity.

[Marshal Reinhard]

It certainly would seem consistant with what we've seen.

 

All power weapons condensed into a single profile.

All force weapons condensed into a single profile.

All bolt rifles condensed into a single profile.

 

etc

[RolandTHTG]

Well, I'm definitely interested in fielding my psykers now. Always-on buffs to the squad, mind bullets that can be cast either safe or plasma-dangerous, and no having to track who has cast what however many times this turn. It also allows customizing the spells to the psyker rather than having to invent 6+ spells for the army, only one or two of which are valuable. 

[tzeentch9]

Looks like morale has become almost  meaningless, and now you have to check and remember which of your units have half strength or less, and which have failed morale 

[WrathOfTheLion]

4 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Looks like morale has become almost  meaningless, and now you have to check and remember which of your units have half strength or less, and which have failed morale 

Vs book keeping how many were destroyed?

 

Half strength can't be that difficult, divide by two and round one way or the other, and you can tell from the state of the battlefield.

 

For a simple demonstration

• if there's three models left in a ten man unit in 10E, do you take a morale test?
  • The answer is yes, every time.
• If there's three models left in a ten man unit in 9E, do you take a morale test?
  • The answer is maybe, and you either have to go back and remember or keep tally of the amount of models destroyed that turn.

 

As for failed morale, you just stick a token next to them, similar to how you might use a die to track wounds.

Edited April 18, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Bradeh]

1 hour ago, Brother Casman said:

So, what are we thinking And They Shall Know No Fear will look like in the new edition? Does it make the cut?

 

Space Marines have Oath of Moment and whatever detachment ability they pick, that's it. There is no other abilities.

[Aramis K]

I'll be disappointed if they've merged combo weapons. 

I think, hope, it's a mistake, they've half removed the datasheet for weapons not yet revealed like flamers and plasma, and just left the bolter part and some keywords.

[Bradeh]

The new Veteran Primaris models will have combi-weapons and from the trailer they each have different variants, so from that basis we know that GW doesn't like multiple profiles anymore, so it could just be one profile. 

[de Selby]

I like the morale changes, I hated the 9th ed system where you lost models, then rolled to see if you lost another model, then rolled to see if you lost even more models. This seems straightforward and not far off what I advocated for in the last GW feedback survey.

 

I'm not wild about the idea of all combiweapons havong a combiprofile, but on the plus side it would make my blightlord terminators a legal unit again.

[Kallas]

3 minutes ago, Aramis K said:

I think, hope, it's a mistake

I'd say prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Personally I'm not greatly excited by what amounts to limited ammunition special weapons being reduced to super Bolters, but it does look like that is what they're doing. Expect it to be what you've seen and nothing else and you're won't be surprised (but disappointed is another thing entirely!)

[Cruor Vault]

59 minutes ago, redmapa said:

Regarding the combiweapon it cant possibly have all those special rules at once, maybe you get one for whichever combi youre equipped with. Flamer gets anti infantry 4+, Melta gets devastating wounds and plasma is rapid fire.

 

The previewed profile sure looks like what I would expect a 40k Volkite to look like.  Given the other errors we've seen on the previews, I wonder if this is also a mistake and we got a taste of Volkite?

[Lemondish]

This part I really like "Each Space Marine Librarian brings their own flavour of psychic chicanery to battle."

 

Which makes sense, since we've had Phobos using their own discipline table for awhile now, but outside of that we have the Firstborn guy and the Primaris one (both might share the same abilities). Blood Angels still have the Librarian Dread, right? That didn't get sent to Legends, I hope.

 

Then there's all the special characters, etc.

 

Noticeably absent is the entire concept of denying the witch. I imagine any effects that bear that name will be significantly more powerful and significantly rarer abilities. Or maybe a core stratagem to mess with psychic effects in some way?

 

Just now, Cruor Vault said:

The previewed profile sure looks like what I would expect a 40k Volkite to look like.  Given the other errors we've seen on the previews, I wonder if this is also a mistake and we got a taste of Volkite?

Mistakes are just accidental teases? I like that theory.

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Subtleknife said:

It also looks like you cant deny powers either now. They now just feel like a shooting attack - if my hunch is correct I think that is a mistake. This was what I was afraid of when GW said the new edition would be simpler....ie dumbed down.

 

I'm guessing certain things will interact with the Psychic keyword. The nice thing about being a weapon property and ability property means that other rules can interact with them differently. Null fields might effect Psychic weapon strength, AP, or damage. Certain strats or wargear may temporarily negate Psychic abilities.

 

Sisters of Silence exist, they're going to be doing something to Psykers and their powers.

 

1 hour ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I think that combiweapon stat line is for the bolter half when fired with the traditional special weapon half based purely on the fact that it is BS4+ -- which has been 8th & 9th paradigm of a -1 to hit when firing both halves.  Why it gets extra abilities is something I'm still grappling with.

1 hour ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

My guess is there's a second option with like a combi-volkite or something like that, kind of feels a bit like deflagrate as represented in 9E (6s become mortal wounds for Volkite weapons).

55 minutes ago, redmapa said:

Regarding the combiweapon it cant possibly have all those special rules at once, maybe you get one for whichever combi youre equipped with. Flamer gets anti infantry 4+, Melta gets devastating wounds and plasma is rapid fire.

 

I'm wondering if combi-weapon is like the old Fire Select. The Termie Librarian is shipping in a box vs Tyranids; I wouldn't be surprised if his lore description notes he can also use Hellfire Rounds. Anti-Infantry 4+ and Devastating Wounds on what is otherwise a normal bolter shot seems about right for mutagenic acid (but perhaps harder to aim because it's a weird casing?).