Wh40k 10th Edition Phases in 10th + Librarian & Weirdboy Datasheets + Battleshock

[Marshal Reinhard]

3 minutes ago, Bradeh said:

The new Veteran Primaris models will have combi-weapons and from the trailer they each have different variants, so from that basis we know that GW doesn't like multiple profiles anymore, so it could just be one profile. 

The lieutenant has a weapon that's identical to the "auto-flamer" that the Black Templar's marshal comes with. The BT supplement also introduced "auto-plasmas". These were then different from traditional "combi weapons". It's possible that the combi weapons the veterans have aren't so much combi weapons as much as another consolidated profile based on a  "auto-flamer" and "auto-plasmas" and such.

 

Ie they may have a different consolidated profile than the one on the librarian.

[CL_Mission]

24 minutes ago, Kallas said:

 

I'm a little torn on, because the various Combi options are essentially just limited Special weapons. I mean, I really hope they haven't condensed the various Special and Heavy weapons into "Special Weapons - 1x 6/-2/2 [Anti-Infantry 5+, Anti-Vehicle 5+]" or something like that. Meltas, Grav, Flamers and Plasma are pretty different, so hopefully this is just a change to Combis for some simplicity.

Didn't we already see a bunch of heavy weapons with distinct profiles in one of the Terminator articles; Heavy Flamer, Cyclone Missile Launcher and Assault Cannon?

Edited April 18, 2023 by CL_Mission

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

1 hour ago, CL_Mission said:

I think it's a conversion using some of  the terrain in this article

 

It's also not a new picture (despite the #New40K label). It's from the first page of the Hexfire booklet.

[Lord Blacksteel]

Looking at those datasheets I think there's a strong implication that there is no psychic test anymore. The Smite and Eadbanger have a BS# which implies to me that's the roll involved, not a traditional 2D6 test. Eadbanger even has a Hazardous tag.

 

I'd say it might be linked to the Psychic tag but the melee weapons have that as well and it's been a long time since you've had to make a psychic test to use a force weapon. Additionally the sidebar powers have the Psychic tag but the implication in the article description is that these things just happen. Da Jump has an inbuilt chance of failure so it seems unlikely one would have to roll a test and then roll again to see if it goes off. 

 

I think the whole psychic side of things just got a lot more streamlined.

[Karhedron]

7 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

Blood Angels still have the Librarian Dread, right? That didn't get sent to Legends, I hope.

 

It is a fairly modern plastic model so I think/hope it will be sticking around for the forseeable future. There may come a day when GW sends the entire Firstborn line to Legends but I am not expecting it in 10th edition.

  

7 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

Noticeably absent is the entire concept of denying the witch. I imagine any effects that bear that name will be significantly more powerful and significantly rarer abilities. Or maybe a core stratagem to mess with psychic effects in some way?

 

The closest we have is the Psychic Hood ability which gives a 4+++ against attacks with the PSYCHIC keyword. Pretty much every faction has a psychic attack dealing MWs in 9th so it seems logical to assume this will be a fairly useful ability in 10th. It also works well against non-psychic factions. The Librarian gets no use out of his Psychic Hood but there will be no one cancelling his own mind bullets.

[Marshal Reinhard]

8 minutes ago, CL_Mission said:

Didn't we already see a bunch of heavy weapons with distinct profiles in one of the Terminator articles; Heavy Flamer, Cyclone Missile Launcher and Assault Cannon?

We did. So following that logic, we should've seen a divergent list of combi weapons if there indeed are more than one...

[Lemondish]

11 minutes ago, CL_Mission said:

Didn't we already see a bunch of heavy weapons with distinct profiles in one of the Terminator articles; Heavy Flamer, Cyclone Missile Launcher and Assault Cannon?

Yeah, we did. Which introduced us to the [Torrent] weapon ability that seems to be tied to Flamer weapons. Next up we saw the Melta Rifle which carried the [Melta] weapon ability. Not having either on this profile has really put a damper on trying to extrapolate what it is we're seeing.

 

11 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

The lieutenant has a weapon that's identical to the "auto-flamer" that the Black Templar's marshal comes with. The BT supplement also introduced "auto-plasmas". These were then different from traditional "combi weapons". It's possible that the combi weapons the veterans have aren't so much combi weapons as much as another consolidated profile based on a  "auto-flamer" and "auto-plasmas" and such.

 

Ie they may have a different consolidated profile than the one on the librarian.

 

That is a great point. Assuming they only go with the three popular varieties of 'combi' with melta, flamer, and plasma - the data cards shouldn't get overloaded with just those six profiles.

 

As an aside, this was a pretty eclectic mix of details shared in the warcom article. I fear a potential for crosstalk across multiple threads now, all with relevant bits from it, and so my heartfelt apologies go out to the mods as I'm definitely a major contributor for it xD

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lemondish

[Burni]

16 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

Noticeably absent is the entire concept of denying the witch. I imagine any effects that bear that name will be significantly more powerful and significantly rarer abilities. Or maybe a core stratagem to mess with psychic effects in some way?

The trailer shows the Norn Emissary shutting the Librarian down. So I expect there’s some kind of Deny?

[Lemondish]

2 minutes ago, Burni said:

The trailer shows the Norn Emissary shutting the Librarian down. So I expect there’s some kind of Deny?

He failed his FNP save and his soul was obliterated. Metal

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lemondish

[Kallas]

15 minutes ago, CL_Mission said:

Didn't we already see a bunch of heavy weapons with distinct profiles in one of the Terminator articles; Heavy Flamer, Cyclone Missile Launcher and Assault Cannon?

7 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

We did. So following that logic, we should've seen a divergent list of combi weapons if there indeed are more than one...

Yes, but as @Marshal Reinhard said, surely we'd see a list of Combi-weapons if there are still options.

[Lemondish]

4 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Yes, but as @Marshal Reinhard said, surely we'd see a list of Combi-weapons if there are still options.

Brother @jaxom suggested (here and elsewhere) that they could be a representation of Hellfire rounds. Historically designed to counter Tyranids in lore, and while they are limited to the heavy varieties of bolter as a stratagem in 9th, nothing says this couldn't fit here either as a way to expand that effect.

Though one wonders why they didn't just call it that if that's the case. So many unknowns still. Can't wait for that Index!

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lemondish

[tzeentch9]

32 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Vs book keeping how many were destroyed?

 

Half strength can't be that difficult, divide by two and round one way or the other, and you can tell from the state of the battlefield.

 

For a simple demonstration

• if there's three models left in a ten man unit in 10E, do you take a morale test?
  • The answer is yes, every time.
• If there's three models left in a ten man unit in 9E, do you take a morale test?
  • The answer is maybe, and you either have to go back and remember or keep tally of the amount of models destroyed that turn.

 

As for failed morale, you just stick a token next to them, similar to how you might use a die to track wounds.

Working out how many were destroyed was easy, you just had to put them to the side, this way you have to scan each unit, and each single model, each turn to see if it is under half strength. If you have ten plus units that’s an annoying amount to have to scan, never mind if you’re playing something like gsc. At least with the previous morale tests it was one and done, and could have a real effect on the game. This new version looks like it will have little effect, but require more bookkeeping

[Burni]

Love that Weirdboys can spam Da Jump for free on a unit. I doubt re roll charges faction rule will survive but if it did you could almost guarantee being able to bounce around the board wiping out shooting units turn after turn. 

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, tzeentch9 said:

previous morale tests [...] could have a real effect on the game

I think many people would disagree that 9th Ed Morale had much of an impact on the game.

 

As for book keeping, it's going to be a little more in depth every turn, since half-strength units need to test every turn instead of once, but it's not particularly difficult to remember which units are below that threshold. This is a case where a simple marker or two (one for half-strength and one for failing morale) will make things extremely easy to manage vs keeping track of your models (which isn't exactly difficult, but it's just as much as seeing a unit is low strength and checking), then rolling to see if they fail, then rolling to see if more run away afterwards.

 

10th Ed Morale actually does have some impactful rules attached (ie, Objective Control and Stratagem prohibition) where 9th Ed Morale really wasn't impactful at all.

[Orange Knight]

I believe that the new combi-weapon profile will apply to all combi-weapons. It has likely been included because this model is still being sold:

Edited April 18, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Azaiel]

As an Ork player I like the Weirdboy rules, suitably bonkers depending on the roll. Now I have to make a couple of Weirdboy Herders like in the old days to accompany my green wizards.

[Lemondish]

10 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

this way you have to scan each unit, and each single model, each turn to see if it is under half strength

Use a token, brother. USE A TOKEN

[Lord Blacksteel]

9 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Working out how many were destroyed was easy, you just had to put them to the side, this way you have to scan each unit, and each single model, each turn to see if it is under half strength. If you have ten plus units that’s an annoying amount to have to scan, never mind if you’re playing something like gsc. At least with the previous morale tests it was one and done, and could have a real effect on the game. This new version looks like it will have little effect, but require more bookkeeping

 With his new approach once a unit hits half strength you put a marker on it when that happens in whatever phase. Most of the time it will not be improving much so it will stay there, but if it did you just remove the marker. Next command phase roll for the units with markers. It seems simple enough at this point.

[Kallas]

Actually, had a thought. Smite and 'Eadbanger both have the [Psychic] tag, and both Veil of Time and Da Jump have the [Psychic] tag.

 

It's possible that one of the Core Stratagems is a denial (either attempt, or flat), possibly with some kind of restriction of having a [Psyker] unit/model (and possibly some kind of anti-Psyker term for non-Psychic factions: eg, Blackstone for Necrons, Zealot/Witchhunter for Black Templars, etc) nearby, or something.

[Marshal Mittens]

Smite being AP1 instead of mortal wounds is interesting. Hopefully mortal wounds is very toned down. Liking the lack of AP on a lot of stuff. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

With battle shock now being tied to your squad's starting strength, we now see an incentive to take bigger squads.  MSU has been the rule of thumb for Marines off all flavor across 8th & 9th for several reasons, but one was to reduce your susceptibility to morale losses.  Now it'll be the reverse, because MSU needs to lose three models in most cases to get below half; a full squad needs to lose double that.  If they really do dip the lethality a bit, that will have to be a consideration.

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, Marshal Mittens said:

Smite being AP1 instead of mortal wounds is interesting. Hopefully mortal wounds is very toned down. Liking the lack of AP on a lot of stuff. 

Smite is AP-1 and also has [Devastating Wounds] (which is 6s to wound cause a Mortal Wound, same as the Assault Cannon - I think that was confirmed, will have to double check).

 

Edit: Derp, only the Focused Smite has DW.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Kallas

[Khornestar]

2 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

"Combi weapon" huh.

 

One profile for all variants?

 

A bit disappointing but hopefully valuable overall in the greater context of the game. Means all that idiotic magnetization I'd done of my chaos terminators was in vain. *laughs, then cries*

[tzeentch9]

9 minutes ago, Lord Blacksteel said:

 With his new approach once a unit hits half strength you put a marker on it when that happens in whatever phase. Most of the time it will not be improving much so it will stay there, but if it did you just remove the marker. Next command phase roll for the units with markers. It seems simple enough at this point.

If you are using markers for half strength, including half wounds for single models, you also need a marker for if it failed the test. That’s a lot more markers on the battlefield that weren’t there before. It’s easy enough to accidentally lose wound dice near a unit, never mind all these markers 

 

15 minutes ago, Kallas said:

 

 

10th Ed Morale actually does have some impactful rules attached (ie, Objective Control and Stratagem prohibition) where 9th Ed Morale really wasn't impactful at all.

Obsec will only matter occasionally, when the unit is actually near an objective and with the reduced number of stratagems that won’t be as impactful either. Previously you could remove the last model or two from a unit, made much more of a difference 

[CL_Mission]

31 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Yes, but as @Marshal Reinhard said, surely we'd see a list of Combi-weapons if there are still options.

I wasn't talking about Combi-weapons so much but the way I read your post it seemed you were concerned special and heavy weapons in other infantry units might get smooshed into one profile for special and one for heavy but if that were the case why would Terminators have three distinct heavy weapons.