Wh40k 10th Edition Phases in 10th + Librarian & Weirdboy Datasheets + Battleshock

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, CL_Mission said:

I wasn't talking about Combi-weapons so much but the way I read your post it seemed you were concerned special and heavy weapons in other infantry units might get smooshed into one profile for special and one for heavy but if that were the case why would Terminators have three distinct heavy weapons.

That's fair, and yes I don't think it's necessarily going to happen, but they have been squashing things together a lot so it's possible (though probably unlikely).

[Brother Casman]

2 hours ago, Bradeh said:

 

Space Marines have Oath of Moment and whatever detachment ability they pick, that's it. There is no other abilities.

It was a USR back in the day, I seem to recall. You don't think it'll reappear as part of a detachment rule?

[Rogue]

1 hour ago, tzeentch9 said:

If you are using markers for half strength, including half wounds for single models, you also need a marker for if it failed the test. That’s a lot more markers on the battlefield that weren’t there before. It’s easy enough to accidentally lose wound dice near a unit, never mind all these markers 

 

 

Or have some two-sided counters. Stick one next to unit when it hits half-strength. In the command phase, test for any unit with a marker, and if it fails, flip the marker over to the 'Shocked' side. Next turn, reset the flipped markers and go again. 

 

Or don't, if you dislike battlefield clutter. But it's an option.

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Theres a lot of similarities between 30k and 10th with some of the reviewed rules.

 

Psychic weapons are just weapons, with a specific single power to do a thing.

 

Morale affects objective control and stratagems; is like a softer version of pinning.

 

Already speculated the wound allocation will be close to accomodate characters joining squads and snipers.

 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

2 minutes ago, Rogue said:

 

Or have some two-sided counters. Stick one next to unit when it hits half-strength. In the command phase, test for any unit with a marker, and if it fails, flip the marker over to the 'Shocked' side. Next turn, reset the flipped markers and go again. 

 

Or don't, if you dislike battlefield clutter. But it's an option.

 

If GW is crafty, they'll include those tokens in the datasheet card packs.

[CCE1981]

I think I like Psychic powers.  Not as lethal, but being treated as normal rolls.  Psychic defense like what is on the Librarians card is how you “:cuss: it down”.  
 

We now know that all Psychic Weapons are now the same.   Woot, to modeling potential!

 

It appears combi-weapons are getting the same treatment.  Interesting. 
 

I don’t like that hazardous isn’t the same for everyone.  Let me roll all the plasma dice at once and just inflict mortal wounds on those models in the unit armed with them first.  At most you would have two damaged models in your unit at a time.  If you have insufficient models to remove, the weapon took out more guys.  Assuming no Leaders.

 

Hmmm, do Leaders lead themselves in this edition?

[redmapa]

1 hour ago, Brother Casman said:

It was a USR back in the day, I seem to recall. You don't think it'll reappear as part of a detachment rule?

 

Astartes get LD6+, that's the new ATSKNF imo because it means more than half the time your units will pass leadership checks, I doubt they'll bring it back as a rule since they've already stated Oath is the faction rule.

[Toxichobbit]

I'm so torn with this edition. I love the new models, especially the Tyranid refresh. But I hate a lot of the rules changes. It's reminding me very much of 3rd edition, which is very much not a good thing.

[Kallas]

22 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

30k and 10th

Wait a minute, 30k+10=40k! GW is illuminati confirmed!

[KnightofSigismund]

I love everything they preview, things are going to be so much easier to teach new people and remember. 

[KiltedMarine]

10 minutes ago, Toxichobbit said:

I'm so torn with this edition. I love the new models, especially the Tyranid refresh. But I hate a lot of the rules changes. It's reminding me very much of 3rd edition, which is very much not a good thing.

I partially get the reference to 3rd, but I don't get the same feeling.  3rd was similarly a simplification, but I think there's a difference in degree. 3rd was, IMO, far more drastic than this.  This so far is a streamlining approach rather than a "make it easier for 11 year olds to pick up" strategy...

[tzeentch9]

Quite hilarious how the librarian has the potential to do 36 mortal wounds in one shooting phase

[BluejayJunior]

2 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Quite hilarious how the librarian has the potential to do 36 mortal wounds in one shooting phase

I'm seeing 20 total. Focused Witchfire Smite would get you 18 (if you rolled 6 shots, all hit, and all wounded on 6, then rolled 3 MW for al the damage) plus 2 more from the combiweapon. What am I missing?

[Urauloth]

I really like the look of this edition so far. Kind of a shame that they're upping the standard game size, though, that appeals less (personally)

[Kallas]

I'm only seeing 16 total.

Focused Smite for 6 shots, plus 6 extra possible from Sustained Hits 1; which is 12 MW max from Devastating Wounds.

Combi Weapon is 2 shots (RF1), plus 2 extra from SH1; which is 4 MW max from Devastating Wounds, for 16 total.

Storm Bolter doesn't have DW, nor does the Force Weapon.

 

Unless we factor in Hazardous giving himself MW of course, then it could be up to 32 MW, but half would be on himself 

[Blurf]

4 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

I had hoped (before the announcements) 10th would be an edition where GW made some big changes. Whilst I do like the new rules on the whole I feel this was a missed opportunity to address issues such as IGUG or the d6 system. Unfortunately that isnt happening.

 

The new leadership rules are nice. I do feel psychic powers have been completely gutted of any flavour. It also looks like you cant deny powers either now. They now just feel like a shooting attack - if my hunch is correct I think that is a mistake. This was what I was afraid of when GW said the new edition would be simpler....ie dumbed down.

 

 

Psychic powers never had any flavor. 95% of them were "Add +1 to X stat, Teleport Y unit, Do Z amount of mortal wounds."

[Blurf]

47 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Theres a lot of similarities between 30k and 10th with some of the reviewed rules.

 

Psychic weapons are just weapons, with a specific single power to do a thing.

 

Morale affects objective control and stratagems; is like a softer version of pinning.

 

Already speculated the wound allocation will be close to accomodate characters joining squads and snipers.

 

 

Hope not, closest model sucks. It doesn't really change anything except it makes movement phase take about 10% longer.

[Toxichobbit]

22 minutes ago, KiltedMarine said:

I partially get the reference to 3rd, but I don't get the same feeling.  3rd was similarly a simplification, but I think there's a difference in degree. 3rd was, IMO, far more drastic than this.  This so far is a streamlining approach rather than a "make it easier for 11 year olds to pick up" strategy...

 

Possibly. It's too early to say with any certainty either way. It's just giving me exactly the same vibes as 3rd did when we first started digging into the rulebook, wave after wave of disappointment :P. There's some differences of course, but what looks like the removal of psychic powers*, no sub-factions, generic weapon profiles for force & power weapons etc, it's all straight out of 3rd's play book. And IMO it's such a shame. 9th edition core rules were fantastic - a bit more polishing for a new edition and they'd be even better. The problems came when they went OTT with the Codexes, adding tons of stratagem bloat, rules upon rules and complexity upon complexity. And of course all the dlc, sorry, expansion books that they added which piled even more on. I genuinely think that giving 9th a polish & resetting Codexes would have produced a really good edition. This though, I have serious concerns about. Partially because I think they're going too far with simplification/streamlining and partially because I don't think they'll ever get a really solid rule set if they keep doing these resets.

 

* I don't care what anyone says, a different gun profile & a unit buff are not psychic powers, they're mechanically no different than any other character's abilities

[BluejayJunior]

20 minutes ago, Kallas said:

I'm only seeing 16 total.

Focused Smite for 6 shots, plus 6 extra possible from Sustained Hits 1; which is 12 MW max from Devastating Wounds.

Combi Weapon is 2 shots (RF1), plus 2 extra from SH1; which is 4 MW max from Devastating Wounds, for 16 total.

Storm Bolter doesn't have DW, nor does the Force Weapon.

 

Unless we factor in Hazardous giving himself MW of course, then it could be up to 32 MW, but half would be on himself 

Ahh, I missed the sustained hits 1. 

Devastating Wounds deals MW equal to the damage characteristic. So each wound would do d3 MW, not just a single MW.

So the max would be: 6 shots, all hit on 6 (12 hits), all wound on 6 (12 wounds converting damage to MW), damage is then 12xd3 (max of 36).

Then throw in the potential 4 from the combiweapon for a total of 40 possible MW in a turn. Completely improbable, but technically possible. 

[Lemondish]

3 minutes ago, Toxichobbit said:

I don't care what anyone says, a different gun profile & a unit buff are not psychic powers, they're mechanically no different than any other character's abilities

I completely agree. I just don't know why characters with psychic abilities are supposed to have their own special snowflake set of interactions with the game...

 

Like, if we keep a psychic phase, can we do a tech phase where non-Psyker armies get to do a bunch of nonsense rolling that your army doesn't get to interact with at all and still results and you picking up a handful of models as casualties anyway?

[Marshal Reinhard]

4 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

can we do a tech phase where non-Psyker armies get to do a bunch of nonsense rolling that your army doesn't get to interact with at all and still results and you picking up a handful of models as casualties anyway?

While I actually agree with your sentiments, this kinda sounds like a "shooting phase". 

 

Techy boxes and tech sticks do techy stuff. Other side loses models 

 

of course the shooting phase is open to psyker as well as non psyker armies

[Kallas]

8 minutes ago, BluejayJunior said:

Devastating Wounds deals MW equal to the damage characteristic. So each wound would do d3 MW, not just a single MW.

Oooh, that's what I'd missed, thanks. Yeah, then the Smites could potentially do 12 hits, for a max of 36 MW, plsu another 4 from the Combi-weapon, so a potential maximum of 40. Would have to get extremely lucky (literally all 6s to hit and wound, and then 5s/6s for the Smite damage), but technically possible.

[Lemondish]

Just now, Marshal Reinhard said:

While I actually agree with your sentiments, this kinda sounds like a "shooting phase". 

 

Techy boxes and tech sticks do techy stuff. Other side loses models 

 

of course the shooting phase is open to psyker as well as non psyker armies

Sure, but if psykers get to do things that are shooting but aren't, and are buffing, but aren't, then other forces should get a phase with results exactly like shooting, but isn't.

 

And you shouldn't get an opportunity to engage with it unless your army also has those elements, which not all factions will.

 

That's how lame the psychic phase has always sounded to me lol

[Toxichobbit]

2 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

I completely agree. I just don't know why characters with psychic abilities are supposed to have their own special snowflake set of interactions with the game...

 

Like, if we keep a psychic phase, can we do a tech phase where non-Psyker armies get to do a bunch of nonsense rolling that your army doesn't get to interact with at all and still results and you picking up a handful of models as casualties anyway?

 

I was thinking about this and how some armies just spectate the psychic phase, which sucks. I still want to see something to make psychic powers unique, because they are lore wise. So I was thinking that a power phase rather than a psychic phase might work. Essentially what you're saying but just one phase where all the miscellaneous stuff like prayers, psychic powers, powers of the C'tan, invocations of the Ethereals etc could go. Basically a phase for the more support-type characters abilities. If I remember correctly, in 2nd ed all armies could interact in the psychic phase regardless of whether they had a psyker. So you could do stuff like nullify (, power drain, daemonic attack etc which represented how dangerous psychic powers are to use, rather than the "battle of wills" style deny the witch we currently have. That would give everybody a chance to participate when there was a psyker on the board, regardless of which side they were on.

[phandaal]

12 minutes ago, Toxichobbit said:

I don't care what anyone says, a different gun profile & a unit buff are not psychic powers, they're mechanically no different than any other character's abilities

 

Ranged attacks are ranged attacks, melee attacks are melee attacks. Different armies make their attacks with different weapons, supposedly, but at the end of the day it is all make believe. We are all just imagining whatever the books tell us is happening.

 

Whether your army is zapping someone with a doomsday laser or with zapping them with force lightning, they should both still operate within the same ruleset for making attacks.