Rumour Valrak trusted rumor: Firstborn Land Speeder and Firstborn Dreadnought going to legends

[JeffJedi]

Use them as counts as Contemptors?

[phandaal]

48 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

I live in the suburbs of the largest city in my country (Poland). There's a literal ONE Warhammer store in the country. In my town there's a SINGLE club that plays 40k and no FLGS stores. Even if I commute into the city (which without a car takes me over an hour, after work, then play the game and come back at around midnight before another day's work), I'd still have a hard time finding a group or place that plays differently.

 

Yeah. I live in one of the largest cities in the US where there are multiple Warhammer stores (edit - 5 Warhammer stores within an hour's drive) and multiple FLGSs within easy driving distance. More if I am willing to go around to the far side of the city. We have multiple ways to find games, from store websites to Facebook.

 

Even then, everyone plays whatever the latest competitive ruleset is because that is the "standard." It is like pulling teeth to even get people to try out Tempest of War, much less something with Legends rules. I can count the number of times someone has requested something besides the latest matched play rules on one finger. (That is one time, for the confused-emoji enjoyers.)

 

So when people say "just find a group that lets you use it," I just assume they are either one of the lucky ones with a stable group of pretzelhammer buddies, or they do not actually play the game.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by phandaal

[Captain Idaho]

I can't just magic people out of thin air to play warhammer with in the town I'm from. I am fortunate to have good friends who like to play fun games, but they don't find broken or outdated rules or one sided games fun.

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, Kastor Krieg said:

I love how everyone is "just get a new group, lulz", as if it were that simple of a solution. It's just so dismissive and disrespectful of the Frater who simply cannot

It's not anyone's responsibility to manage the dynamics of our individual hobby group but ourselves. I don't think the parameters of organizing and discussing Legends play is unreasonable. If you have a group that is unreasonable about it, well, that's fundamentally a people issue. You wouldn't look to Games Workshop to solve your tensions with the one-guy-that-never-showers. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Wispy

[Kastor Krieg]

27 minutes ago, Wispy said:

It's not anyone's responsibility to manage the dynamics of our individual hobby group but ourselves. I don't think the parameters of organizing and discussing Legends play is unreasonable. If you have a group that is unreasonable about it, well, that's fundamentally a people issue. You wouldn't look to Games Workshop to solve your tensions with the one-guy-that-never-showers. 

And this is the kind of rude dismissiveness I've mentioned above.
Nobody asked anyone to manage anyone's group. Nobody wants GW to step in to handle That Guy either. 

If you have a group that is unreasonable about it, well, that's fundamentally a people issue.

And with that knowledge, I will simply cease to play with all the people who will not play Legends. Which means ceasing to play 40k completely.

Great advice!

[Captain Idaho]

Apples and oranges - GW created a disparity in the rules and models people own. They didn't create a hygiene deficiency in the hobby.

 

Though I bet that latter problem would be solved if GW produced a Games Workshop themed antiperspirant. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Rain]

Ouch. Land Speeders have always been weird looking to me, but box Dreads are absolutely iconic. Doesn’t help that Redemptors look like a dodgy AI drawing of the original box dread. There is allotment for subjective taste, and then there is liking Primaris vehicles. I guess there are always Contemptors. 

[bigtrouble]

2 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Apples and oranges - GW created a disparity in the rules and models people own. They didn't create a hygiene deficiency in the hobby.

 

Though I bet that latter problem would be solved if GW produced a Space Marine themed antiperspirant. 

 

 

Deodorant tank. White Dwarf 95, November 1987.

 

GW way out in front of the hygiene meta!

[Khornestar]

Is it not premature to be doom and glooming about all this?

 

The rumor allegedly is deemed reliable but we don’t really know exactly what is going to happen. 

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, Kastor Krieg said:

And this is the kind of rude dismissiveness I've mentioned above.
....

And with that knowledge, I will simply cease to play with all the people who will not play Legends. Which means ceasing to play 40k completely.

Great advice!

That's your decision! But don't ask me to feel bad when neither you or your friends seem capable of compromise. I will be 'dismissive.'

Edited April 21, 2023 by Wispy

[BitsHammer]

@The Unseen I just want to point out that the Dark Angels have more association with Lander Speeders than White Scars considering they have three unique Land Speeders, one of which is an HQ choice.

[Special Officer Doofy]

15 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

Is it not premature to be doom and glooming about all this?

 

The rumor allegedly is deemed reliable but we don’t really know exactly what is going to happen. 

 

I think marine players just like to doom and gloom. I lost my death guard bikers, raptors, jump pack characters and more. Didn't have to make a bunch of woah is me posts online, just bought the new models and kept playing the hobby. Most non loyalist marine factions are just happy to get any amount of support, whether it be a one for one replacement or just a new unit that squats a 20+ year old one.

[FarFromSam]

35 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

@The Unseen I just want to point out that the Dark Angels have more association with Lander Speeders than White Scars considering they have three unique Land Speeders, one of which is an HQ choice.

 

I love land speeders that DE Marine starter set had me drooling over the goofy thing.  I have 12 of them and for a while in 7th I think I ran 9 of them in a ravenwing army.   

 

If legends were allowed at GTs it would solve a lot of concerns,  but that won't help with the unwieldy number of datasheets.  I'd rather they made a primaris version we could proxy as.  Maybe the speeder aligns more with Mario kart unit.  No one would claim modeling for advantage there, and h bolter + asscan sorta aligns with the load out

[Lemondish]

4 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Move towns? OK. LOLZ.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

 

Units moving to Legends isn't an issue unless you intentionally make it one by actively and arbitrarily shooting your own self in the foot.

 

In which case, you do you, boo.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I hope the venerable dread doesn't go away, i've been using it in like every game with my marines. BS2+ and no degrading stat line was great!

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Definitely the cleanest of answers to what is, once again, a total rumor without even a shred of a hint of being real beyond "valrak said so."

And if your group says no Legends, get a new group.  Doesn't seem like your group and you are on the same wavelength anyways, as I've never met anyone who plays who wants to restrict what other people are doing.  Pretty much everyone I've ever interacted with in the hobby said "As long as you're consistent, I don't care what looks like."

some peoples' "groups" are the random people they find at the store for pick up games.  

people really need to stop assuming everyone has a regular group of people they game with. I came back in the last 3-6 months of 8th, and just now feel i've established an actual 'group' and by that i mean i have 2 people i've now played with enough to call it 'regularly'. unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) i'll be moving half way across the country soon and will have to start over in terms of groups.

 

[Wispy]

I would add, i find it hard to believe everyone says their friends are going to go 'Boo! No legends!' after discussing it and making it clear how important it is to you. It's hard to feel like people are being good faith here, asking me to believe all their hobby groups are comprised of ruthless, uncaring, sociopaths who will treat this as a deal-breaker 

 

I'm sorry, maybe that's unfair, i know there are huge jerkstores out there, but my experience with this hobby has been mostly that people are lovely, fun, and willing to compromise so the experience is fun for everyone.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Wispy

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

I would add, i find it hard to believe everyone says their friends are going to go 'Boo! No legends!' after discussing it and making it clear how important it is to you. It's hard to feel like people are being good faith here, asking me to believe all their hobby groups are comprised of ruthless, uncaring, sociopaths who will treat this as a deal-breaker 

 

I'm sorry, maybe that's unfair, i know there are huge jerkstores out there, but my experience with this hobby has been mostly that people are lovely, fun, and willing to compromise so the experience is fun for everyone.

The people bringing up these concerns aren’t people who have gaming groups.

 

they’re people who go to stores to play pickup games.

[phandaal]

27 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

The people bringing up these concerns aren’t people who have gaming groups.

 

they’re people who go to stores to play pickup games.

 

People have been saying this for a very long time now, and the point never seems to stick. The responses are something like "yeah but why not just get your group to change." Or "yeah but just find a new group."

 

Or this latest one: "yeah but you guys must be lying."

 

It is like asking why plants crave Brawndo, or trying to get Patrick Star to take his wallet back.

[MithrilForge]

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

I would add, i find it hard to believe everyone says their friends are going to go 'Boo! No legends!' after discussing it and making it clear how important it is to you. It's hard to feel like people are being good faith here, asking me to believe all their hobby groups are comprised of ruthless, uncaring, sociopaths who will treat this as a deal-breaker 

 

I'm sorry, maybe that's unfair, i know there are huge jerkstores out there, but my experience with this hobby has been mostly that people are lovely, fun, and willing to compromise so the experience is fun for everyone.

How do you know anyway...?!?, I distinctly remember you saying within the last year that you don't play the 40k mini's anymore and all you do is collect "Joytoy toys"... , In that regard, you don't even have a gaming group?!? how would you even know what gaming groups are like nowadays??. No need to slam someone else for saying they have a tough group that they play with!??...

 

M.  

[phandaal]

Just now, KrakenBorn said:

Geez it's getting ridiculous in this thread.

 

Lighten up fellas; no need to be nasty to each other just because you all hold varying opinions.

 

 

It is not a matter of opinion. People are saying they would have a hard time finding a game in which they could use Legends units, and other people are saying these people are wrong somehow. There is no opinion that is up for debate.

 

We do not need compromise, but we could probably use a little empathy.

[Sgt.Sangha]

In all the years I have been a member of this group I have never gotten myself in posting opinions in "these" type of discussion topics, but today I break that seal. 

 

I think people need to give a bit of grace here. I think some of our brethren are simply forming a reaction to a possible rumor, and that is ok. I think as hobbyists the best thing we can do is allow them to vent a little and hear them out. None of us can fix the issue, or offer advise that can "solve" the problem. Especially a theoretical one, since this is just a rumor. But for some of us it may seem a bit upsetting. Telling members to find new groups or new friends is not only dismissive its also not allowing them to feel valid for having concerns, or giving them a space to air them. 

 

Just because someone mentions a problem to a rule set, or model type or whatever...doesnt mean we need to find them a solution or give them an options, sometimes its just best to say, "this is an unfortunate incident" (thats if this even occurs).

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

21 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

It is not a matter of opinion. People are saying they would have a hard time finding a game in which they could use Legends units, and other people are saying these people are wrong somehow. There is no opinion that is up for debate.

 

We do not need compromise, but we could probably use a little empathy.

 

Just like everything else in the hobby people's experiences differ and online people often don't care for others experiences or opinions. GW caters to the majority though and not the minority (for better or worse).

 

Not to single anyone out, but one frater mentioned here their country had one GW and had issues with getting games. That is not the typical experience of the vast majority of the hobbiest (UK and US). So while it is obviously unfortunate for that person, that is not a concern for a lot of people. All these posts are supposed to be related to the models going to legends, or else they are off topic.

 

So in relation to those people having issues getting games in general, legends only makes it worse. But for a majority, as in non marine players, marine players who like and embrace Primaris and their replacements, and marine players who don't care and just want to play (so everyone excluding the people who favor firstborn), them retiring 20+ year old models with newer replacements (direct or not) is a moot point. Legend models are no longer produced, so they are hard to balance. You can't make them overly competitive or tournament models, because people no longer have access to them. It sucks they are going away (I much rather GW just upscaled Marines and gave them a silly copyright name like adeptus astartes, but here we are), but it's even more stupid to have models in tournaments that newer players can not even purchase from a store.

 

Can't have your cake and eat it.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy
Grammar

[Lord_Ikka]

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