Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Adeptus Custodes

[bigtrouble]

I like what I see for the most part. I don’t play Custodes, so mostly just interested in this from the overall balance and insights perspective. 
 

Even if it’s once per battle per unit, I don’t think Big Bois needed a resurrection mechanic at all. Perhaps this was to help balance battle shock for small unit sizes?

[DemonGSides]

I think the once per unit per battle resurrection stratagem is definitely combat the problems that small unit model count armies have; which is, that if they do suffer a loss, it's exponentially worse than if you lose a single guardsmen.  I'm not sure it ties into battleshock at all, as battleshock is no longer removing units, it just makes the unit work less good.

Which is fine for Custodes, imo, to have a more normalized leadership as opposed to just being "lol what's battleshock?".  It's going to take some time to divorce the idea of Morale and Battleshock from each other, but they are distinct enough in what they represent that it can cause issues when you're thinking about it in old school terms, where it was a Morale and the idea of "Well these guys just got so :cuss:ed up that some of their buddies were like 'no effin way am I doing this, cya later nerds' and therefore armies where they fight to the last man (Space Marine, Custodes, Tyranids, etc) having no interaction or low interaction with the morale phase." has been replaced with "Battleshock is a oblique reference to the idea that EVERYONE can suffer from SOMETHING akin to morale, where for most units it might be a literal "Cya later", that feels bad (Losing men because you lost men is just like double punishment), to now it represents the discord of war, the scrambling of vox messages, or in many cases, just being slightly shook compared to your normal composure."

I think it's a really smart "change" even though it, ultimately isn't that different.  Just the right kind of flavor to make it more applicable to everyone;  "Battleshock" is a more nebulous term than "Morale", which gives them a lot of lee way with how they make it work for different units.

[MagicHat]

Couldn't they have made Vexillas Misericordia and then an extra A variant for the rest?

As is, it is good for the vexilla, and axe wielders can use it against 1W infantry. Spear wielders gain nothing.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

26 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

Couldn't they have made Vexillas Misericordia and then an extra A variant for the rest?

As is, it is good for the vexilla, and axe wielders can use it against 1W infantry. Spear wielders gain nothing.

I honestly think the Misericordia is missing the extra attacks keyword because...unless your intention is to not kill your opponent why use it

[jaxom]

3 minutes ago, Hellex_The_Thanatar said:

I honestly think the Misericordia is missing the extra attacks keyword because...unless your intention is to not kill your opponent why use it

It’s also a bit weird to think of a Custodes twirling their two-handed weapons around or sword-and-boarding  to quickly stop, pull out a dagger, and shank someone as all part of the same moment.

[DemonGSides]

16 minutes ago, Hellex_The_Thanatar said:

I honestly think the Misericordia is missing the extra attacks keyword because...unless your intention is to not kill your opponent why use it

 

This is how I feel too.  It feels absolutely useless otherwise.  Or if they gave it something like Anti-X or something.

[Blight1]

They used to be weapons that you only used if you didn't have a spear or axe and that's what they are again.

[prava]

17 hours ago, sairence said:

The Vigilators look kinda cool into psyker armies...4+ to hit causes 2MWs, if I'm understanding the keywords right...probably not enough attacks to really do work into other targets. Shame the Bolters are still basic, that's just not going to scare most characters. 

 

The 3+FNP againgst psychic mortals and no ability to hinder other powers seems a bit off, but maybe there's other stuff like a strat to negate a buff. Feels difficult to judge as of yet.

 

Negating key parts of the game is gone. Finally. So no units in the game should be immune to psychic or battleshock. And why would they? Fluff not withstanding, obviously.

 

16 hours ago, Shield-Captain said:

Yeah kind of wish SoS had kept their “we can’t be affected by psychic powers” schtick. Was really cool and would have been an interesting game mechanic in 10th I feel. 
 

A little bummed about the LD (Eldar guardians and Adeptus Custodes are on the same page) and the vexilla change but it seems fine. I would love to get to play 10th. Not excited to print off all of these army cards though

 

Why would it be an interesting mechanic when it negates actual game mechanics? It is impossible to balance something when it negates core part of the game.

 

16 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah that works against weenie psykers, but its still unfluffy.
 

Pariahs are immune to psychic powers though, so it feels off to have them completely unprotected against a whole bunch of them,. You know debuffs, hexes and the like exist right?  
 

Thats not how pariahs work on top of being nonsense.

 

And? The game needs balance.

 

15 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

Along the lines of my first takeaway from this was a "wat" at the sisters.

It wouldn't be that hard to have their rule just be: "This unit can never be the target of, or affected by, any psychic attacks, abilities, or area effects" (& whatever psychic 'type' of thing may exist other than those. Paraphrasing since I haven't read the core leaks to understand what all the psychic classifications that may exist are)

Not complex at all, maintains their fluff.

 

Your solution makes 0 sense from a game standpoint. This edition is getting rid of all the rules that negated core aspects of the game. Battleshock? Its here and it affects everybody. Pyschic? Same.

 

Some armies will be resistant to psychic, others to battleshock but nothing will be immune.

 

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to create rules that skip parts of the game, and is impossible to balance.

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Xenith

[Captain Idaho]

 

23 minutes ago, prava said:

Why would it be an interesting mechanic when it negates actual game mechanics? It is impossible to balance something when it negates core part of the game.

 

Thing is, Eldar literally negate the chief component of the game - random chance using dice.

 

GW have done it, so limiting psychic powers isn't far fetched. And all the armies that have psychic powers can attack the Adeptus Custodes units with them instead of Sisters of Silence, using their Mortal and mundane weapons to fell the T3 Sisters.

 

It isn't a balancing factor really. Though I'd agree that we shouldn't see an aura of prevention of psychic powers and abilities, just not let them affect the SoS.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Khornestar]

I feel like should/shouldn’t is kind of much less important than what is.

 

Them’s the rules. Not saying one should like them or not, but wishlisting before we even see the rest of the rules?

 

They look like great, flavorful rules to me. Trajann is nuts! I’d pucker up when charging him and his unit. 

[MithrilForge]

My Fav part was the end.... where it says Orks Tomorrow  !!! 

[ThePenitentOne]

@prava The thing to keep in mind is that negation of psychic powers IS PARTICIPATION in the psychic phase for some armies. SoS, and Custodes HAVE NO PSYKERS, so negation was their way to participate in the psychic component of the game. SoB have the same problem- deny the witch was their participation in the psychic phase, and many of their other rules keyed off their anti-psychic power. Of course, all those powers will have been eliminated now, not necessarily because of the removal of the psychic phase, but because of the removal of the excess strats, subfaction abilities and other rules that the people who were unhappy with 9th would label "bloat" and I would label "flavour."

 

SoS at least retain significant interactions with psykers and psychic powers, and some of the new interactions even make SoS feel more special, not less, so they're going to be okay. And when the dex comes, there may be an Anathema detachment that leans into SoS rather than the Golden Boys. I hope so anyway; I love SoS, but I'm lukewarm on Custodes. 

 

The SoB, however, don't have the same kind of interaction with the psychic phase in the new edition, so their status as the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus doesn't make as much sense as it did for the previous 8 editions of the game. They're also less likely to get a detachment that highlights that aspect of their fluff; and if they do, it could end up being an Ordo Hereticus detachment if this edition does in fact give us an Imperial Agents dex.

 

As @Khornestar says though, what might have been isn't as important as what is, and I am just happy that they care enough about SoS to mention them in the preview at all. I hope that Custodes get some new toys this edition, and I hope that at least one of those toys goes to the SoS. It's a long shot, but including them in the profile gives me hope.

 

[Emicus]

Anti abilities keying off wound rolls makes the abilities way worse than I thought. Anti is just a new word for Poison?

Edited May 24, 2023 by Emicus
Being wrong

[Cactus]

17 minutes ago, Emicus said:

Wrong.

 

Anti-x weapons work off the hit roll and make the weapon damage into mortal wounds.

 

That it ALSO had devastating wounds (critical wounds are mortal wounds) is just sprinkles for non psyker targets.

 

Edit: angry machine spirits

Wrong.

 

"Anti abilities – covering many different keywords like Infantry, Monster, and Vehicle – produce a Critical Wound** on any wound roll that matches or beats the specified score, regardless of the target’s Toughness."
"** A guaranteed success, normally achieved by rolling an unmodified six."

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/04/just-how-tough-are-terminators-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Cactus

[spessmarine]

16 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah that works against weenie psykers, but its still unfluffy.
 

Pariahs are immune to psychic powers though, so it feels off to have them completely unprotected against a whole bunch of them. You know debuffs, hexes and the like exist right?  
 

Thats not how pariahs work on top of being nonsense.

 

Might restrict the really potent effects to leaders and the Culexus to avoid having them annihilate psykers casually. If Oblivion Knights and Culexus types have vulnerability, then that just won't do.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Xenith

[Dark Legionnare]

2 hours ago, prava said:

Your solution makes 0 sense from a game standpoint. This edition is getting rid of all the rules that negated core aspects of the game. Battleshock? Its here and it affects everybody. Pyschic? Same.

 

Some armies will be resistant to psychic, others to battleshock but nothing will be immune.

 

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to create rules that skip parts of the game, and is impossible to balance.

 

That's a bit of an invalid opinion, and I don't mean that abrasively, just matter-of-factly. A small squad or two of sisters being immune to psychic damage or effects to fit their lore isn't going to make psykers any less effective.

 

They're essentially SoB statlines with some fun, fluffy rules to prevent psychic from affecting them, just them. It's not an unbalancing or disruptive force as a whole. 

 

If they had an aura of "nothing can use anything 'psychic' (attacks, ability, etc ..) if within 12 inches of them" then while that may be fluffy, I could see that being disruptive and agree with you; avoid that. Fitting as that would be fluffwise, ultimately could be a problem to face the interactions of "only buff other friendlies" abilities while within that 12 and how they might completely hamstring GK, demons, or Thousand armies. Fluffy, but not fun in that regard; possibly invalidating everything those forces do instead of the sisters just, and only, protecting themselves like my sample idea.

 

As for why I said "invalid", there's already credence to things "Just ignoring" components of the game. Terminators automatically ignore any and all hit modifiers on their data sheet. Immediately invalidating any (psychic or otherwise) effects that might make something harder to hit to everything else in the game. Arguably, that unit ability is far more likely to be mass disruptive to other forces than the hypothesized SoS just making their own unit immune to psychic stuff affecting just their unit.

 

Food for thought, let's say down the road, a key survivability to GSC (who are usually wet tissue durability) is their psykers having effects of -1 to hit at longer ranges to make their troops a bit more surviveble, and fit a lore of being skulking about ambushing things. It only "affects" their joined unit, not the enemy units targeting them. SoS as I proposed do absolutely nothing to change that, but Terminators give no damns and are still hitting the GSC on 3, invalidating a key defensive trait of theirs.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Tokugawa]

People are all asking "how could they deal with high t tanks?" when they saw DG preview. Do they ask same question when they saw custodes?

[MegaVolt87]

52 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

People are all asking "how could they deal with high t tanks?" when they saw DG preview. Do they ask same question when they saw custodes?

 

Bonk them with FW dreadnaughts, just like the past two editions of 40k I guess. 

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

People are all asking "how could they deal with high t tanks?" when they saw DG preview. Do they ask same question when they saw custodes?

I, for one, look forward to seeing the stats for the Custodes grav-tanks.

[spessmarine]

13 hours ago, painting.for.my.sanity said:

Erm, does anyone know why the chap in the coloured strip down the left side of the Instagram story for this looks like a zombie in Allarus Terminator Armour?

 

Just saw the story, damn you are right. I think I get what happened, Vigil Unending never said you look good doing it.

 

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

People are all asking "how could they deal with high t tanks?" when they saw DG preview. Do they ask same question when they saw custodes?

Two things.

With T7 infantry, you pretend to be tanks yourself.

Half of the Custodes lineup is FW unlike DG so there is so much unknown, maybe a Telemon solves all.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

55 minutes ago, jaxom said:

I, for one, look forward to seeing the stats for the Custodes grav-tanks.

 

 

This for sure. The caladius and our two super heavy fliers will be...scary. 

 

Especially against death guard and custodes lol! 

[GenerationTerrorist]

Has anyone done the number crunching for Axes and Spears (and Misericordia?) vs the usual suspects in close combat?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

1 hour ago, GenerationTerrorist said:

Has anyone done the number crunching for Axes and Spears (and Misericordia?) vs the usual suspects in close combat?

Quite a few folk in the various forums. 

 

Essentially unless there is a strat that improves AP....spears look to be the better options for all around content. There are so few things at a high toughness that have bad saves the axes would struggle hard to get through. 

 

The stances play to this even more with lethal hits especially coming out winning with spears. 

[Captain Idaho]

Custodes definitely look weaker against tanks, even with rerolling Axes.

 

I think most people are confident though that there isn't a class of infantry they can't carve through with ease.

 

And the legacy of Forge World doing heavy lifting makes many players at ease. But as a Codex release, the Land Raider is pretty much the only option, since melta weapons are so weak against vehicles nowadays.

 

I would be worried if not for the Forge World Dreads I love, but I'm interested to see how GW squares this hole for the Codex. 

[Xenith]

=][= Edited an uneccessary comment directed at another frater, and all the posts that quoted it, as well as some general clean up. =][=